BinderPlanet.com

Welcome to BinderPlanet.com the World's Premier IH Website.

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Xado (Cermet) and Farmall "Q"

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
---Has anyone tried this chemical in their IH bairn? I searched for both keywords and found nothing.

---Right now I am nearing the 500k mile marker and I am getting suspicious that my cylinders are worn. I'm trying to land a good price on a compression tester and leak-down tester from my Snap-On man, but he drives a hard bargain that begins with an attitude ("nothing for free because I have the power to clean up your credit in just a few keystrokes") that mind you, comes as a fee tacked onto all tool sales... lol.

---Also, has anyone have any insight on the possibility of sleeving a 304 with Farmall sleeves from a 152?
:beta1:
 

Doc Stewart

Content Team
Staff member
Moderator
"Cleaning" a 500K engine with anything could be fatal to the engine!

Not sure why you would sleeve a 304 unless it had been bored oversize a couple of times and can't be bored again.

Oversized pistons are available and better blocks are relatively cheap.

Might be a fun project to sleeve to standard size. Problam with that is finding standard sized pistons.
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
---Yeah, the whole thing is that I don't want to bore the cylinders over-sized, I was always happy with my fuel economy and the power. Standard size pistons were available through NAParts when last I checked, so that shouldn't be a problem.

---See, I figure if I build it pretty much the way it was when it was built, it'll last me a lifetime and since I don't believe in re-using, I'm going to be footing a big enough bill as it is for new internal fasteners. She's been pretty good to me since day one and well, if I were to consider over-size, and I had time to hit the drawing board, I'd make a "sort of" stroker out of it by first getting a lightened crank from Misterfixit :detective:, finding pistons with a higher wrist pin that are about 0.001" wider, shortening the skirts, boring and chryo-treating some MV404 connecting rods or something that fits the profile.

---Back to reality though, I don't know how much, if any, will have to be taken from the cylinder walls, but to bore and check, bore and check, bore and check seems like such a PITA to me and costly. The way I figure it, bore, sleeve & forget it sounds good... and if anything were to happen down the line, a new sleeve would be a cinch.

---I also want this block to be around for a long time. It's already 40-43 years old and there's some semi-mental value in there.

---FWIW, XADO isn't a cleaner, but a chemical that FWIU some Ozzie designed. It is a ceramic and metal compound that fills in the voids. If the cylinders are out-of-round (elongated), you either remove the head and squirt it on the cylinder walls or you dilute it with oil and squirt it through the spark plug hole. You then crank rotate the engine 80 times (what I've read is best) by turning by hand, towing, etc., crank the starter 4 times at 4-5 second intervals (waiting 30 seconds between cranking), install the spark plugs and run it at idle for 2 minutes. Then you add some to your oil and drive it as you normally do, not having to worry about changing the oil. What you put in the oil will also get rid of piston slap, lifter clatter (due to worn bores), fill in the grooves on the cam and it becomes hard like steel steel.

---Just wondering if anyone has heard of or had experience with it yet. I am willing to test it and if I blow up the 304, I guess I will be saving the heads and finding a new block while borrowing a 345 till the 304's built.
 

Doc Stewart

Content Team
Staff member
Moderator
Nope, I haven't heard of the stuff. Wrenching on my own stuff for 47 years has given me a healthy skecpticism of anything in a can that will successfully modify a machine. If you are willing to see it junked, go for it and report, please.

IH SV8 blocks are cast from high-nickel steel which is both hard and durable. I have never heard of sleeving one although it could work. I wonder that the expense of sleeving and new pistons would exceed the expense of boring with oversized pistons. The process is not that complicated. Boring oversize does not significantly change the function of the engine compared to stock.
 
Last edited:

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
---Just a recap on this topic. I had found that my engine had* passed the 500k mark, when I was to exit the interstate and drive to the next mile marker, where the road we needed was 1 mile up. When I passed the road, my odometer had only just turned 0.8 miles from when we got off. We rode up to the next mile marker and it was the same, then turned around and continued our journey. When I got home, I went over my mileage from when I first installed 33" tires (147,345) and the total came to 351,111 with the new size. Equation gives me 540,934.6 actual miles, not counting the approximated 3,000 miles with the speedo unhooked, while trying to work out exhaust, when I installed the headers and I was running to/from town for/with building materials. Regardless of that useless info; I missed the celebration of 500k is all :(...

. . .... I found some on eBay listed for $50 because it was about to hit the expiration date (07/09). Half price so I said, "MINE*!", after contacting techies at XADO and asking them details about expiration. I'm on my third tube now of the 3-tube process. I don't know if it works or not, but I am so far... impressed. The treatments take place, prior to oil change, once every 60-100 miles, as I said, in three intervals. Here's the jiff and then the beginning of my testimony... (understand I do not believe in a Mechanic-in-a-can, and would scoff at the possibility of a Machinist-in-a-can, this was done out of shear frustration and some, well... desperation):

Treatment:

  1. Squeeze gel from tube into oil filler neck after engine has been heated to full operational temperature
  2. Drive 60-100 miles and repeat stage 1
  3. Repeat stage 2
Treatment is considered complete after 1,000 miles of drive. Do not drain oil before, or during treatment. Treatment lasts for 60,000 miles.


---More can be found here, more description along with all applications, testimonies, etc.

---As for the extent of my testimony, it comes from everyone around me. First my wife, then my step-daughter, step-son, a bud from Indiana and my neighbor:

  1. Wife, after 30 miles, while riding to pick up Step-Daughter: "It sounds much quieter"
  2. Step-Daughter, after total of 34 miles, while driving to pick up Step-son: "It's quieter and doesn't smell as bad"
  3. Step-Son:, after total of 41 miles "It sounds more stabile, quieter... tighter even"
  4. Indiana, after 48 miles, idling and sitting in the truck as I did the last time he was on the phone with me, then even holding the phone under the truck: "I can't hear anything... I can't hear it! (LOL) A lot quieter I guess considering the last time I was on the phone it sounded like a Chevy valve train ticking."
  5. Neighbors, 108 miles, 12 miles after adding second tube, stopping by while they were working in garage: "Yeah, it's a lot quieter. I was asking 'Joe-bob' when you left earlier, if he knew what you had done to it. Then when you pulled up we didn't know who it was"

---This was only after the first tube, in less than 100 miles. Blow-by is not as severe (doubt I will be able to cure that... mebbe rings... bebbe valves... dunno yet) and pretty much "all but diminished". I noticed after only driving for 20 miles that the engine vibration was dampened a great deal. The engine was so much quieter before the second tube, that I didn't have to have the radio up as loud so as to enjoy more of the audible frequencies... and the power, definitely noticeable. Now, after 4 years, my amp went poof, so I've lost the ability to compare decibles to that... LOL.

---I just figured that for me, this engine has come back to life three times now, and this time it was hurting pretty bad, so what did I have to lose with even a $99 treatment. For $50??? "MINE*!"

---I'm even considering treating my step-daughter's VW Beetle after finding an engine to rebuild for it. Once completed, after gentle break in, treat it and see how long it'll last. So far, I;'m convinced enough that I'd add it to just about anything... ehhhh, with exception to firearms... and seriously considering their greases and gear oils. Only time will tell I guess.

---As for sleeves, they're available as well as standard pistons. I myself would rather stay with a more economical 304 than build a bored 304. If it weren't that way, I would join in on the 345 swaps or up with the 392 w/345 heads swappers.
 

Dennis Bernth

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Thomas-
any update on this? You've had lots of time to run it and see how it works....inquiring minds want to know, I think I'm going to run it in my F150.
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
---It definitely bought me some time and I don't regret doing it. Again, even if bought at full price of $99, it was better than shutting it down to rebuild it. I'm still having some fuel problems, but it's not related to anything internal, just mismatched carb parts that neither Holley nor anyone else knows anything about. Almost got that worked out though... I think.

---Lots better than she was for sure. I gained an average of 3-4mpg (with T'top on) when I tool around town. I don't have problems getting up to 70mph, but still try and keep her below 60. Engine sounds strong again as well as vibration, but there's still no denying she's old and tired. She's still doing good, and a lot better without the extra weight of the Traveltop. I now hate putting it back on worse than ever.

---I can't say any more than that. See, since I've lived here, the local ingrates have acquired more tools than I alone have lost to them. I'm without a compression tester... hell, even a vacuum tester. My cheap-o vacuum/fuel pressure gauge was popped by my neighbor's Expedition... his regulator was bad... gauge went "tink tink TINK!" and he said "Sorry :(".
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
---BTW, it was 02/23/09 that I added the XADO to my oil. Still doing way better than she was and I'm considering another step in rejuvenation, not to mention their other products for my Transfer Case and Transmission, along with Differentials (rebuilding one soon), Wheel Bearings and U-joints.

---As for the fuel problem, I don't feel the Power Valve kicking in, so either it's already in or it's too small. I also found that if I keep my foot off the radiator when accelerating and stay outta 2500+ RPMs, it's much* better :whistling: Still need a compression and vacuum tester... missed trade days this week cause of the weather :(
 

Dennis Bernth

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
I'm on the second tube in the F150 now, it seems a little better but time will tell. It feels like it has more power, but it's still a little noisy, but better than it was. I'm gonna drive it til I get all three tubes in and run through and report back then.
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
-Cool,

---From the instructions I assumed you added the tube one right after the other without shutting it down and letting it cool. I had originally intended on adding the second tube after warming it up, running it @ 1200RPMs for a little over a half hour and then adding a tube, running it for the same period and adding the the third. I figured 60mph would be about that. They didn't specify speeds, so I figured I would let it work on the first two tubes at lower RPMs and then the final tube I would bring RPMs up to slightly higher than normal... to take care of any voids caused by elongated cylinders. It did sit and cool down prior to adding the third tube. Was nothing I could do about it. I warmed it up and dumped the third tube in, nothing bad happened so I guess it doesn't matter. Besides, they said Cermet to cermet had excellent bonding too.

---Id leave it in for 1000 miles before draining, `cause they say the treatment is complete by then.

---I'll let ya know how my next treatment goes and by then I should have some compression and vacuum readings of the engine prior to adding it. I'll try and record them every 100 miles to see if there's any change too. Did you take compression readings or anything prior to treatment?
 

Dennis Bernth

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Nope, I followed the directions they sent with it, or tried to anyway. They say warm up the engine, put in one tube, and run it at least two minutes before shutting off, I ran it longer than that. Then run it 120 miles or so and put in the second tube, same way (warm engine, run at least two minutes after adding), then after another 120 miles the third tube, and don't drain the oil til after 1000 miles. One interesting thing they said in the instructions I got was to not run the engine hard (I think it gave a 'redline' of 3500 rpm, not much of a problem with our engines!) during the treatment. I couldn't completely follow that cause I had to haul a huge load of firewood on a trailer the second day I had it in, so although I didn't exceed the 'rpm limits' I probably worked it harder than they'd like. The instructions I have say 'city driving' is the best for the treatment, and avoid long high speed driving til the treatment is over, then the limits are off. As I said, we'll see.....my 5.0 had (has) a tick/small knock at startup til it's warm, and a very quiet one after warming up. I know about the Furd bearing issues, BTDT, but I don't think that's the problem with this one, I 'fixed' the oil pressure idiot gauge to be a REAL gauge, and I've checked OP with a manual gauge and it's excellent. I mainly wanted to see if this stuff worked, and if it could quiet down the 5.0. I didn't expect a lot, but it seems to have more power already although the noise is still there- but it goes away quicker if that makes any sense.
We'll see, I'm reserving judgement til I get the 1,000 miles on it, but I paid what you did, so like you, I figured I'm not out much....
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
I'm on the second tube in the F150 now, it seems a little better but time will tell. It feels like it has more power, but it's still a little noisy, but better than it was. I'm gonna drive it til I get all three tubes in and run through and report back then.
-So now I am wondering...

. . .... how is your Ferd doing?

---I blew StoneThrower's head gaskets on #1 & #4. Found a set of standard Hastings cast iron rings and con rod bearings for dirt cheap, pulled the heads and punched out the pistons. Surprisingly, the con rod bearings looked real good for their age. #1 and #4 top rings were cracked, #1 in 3 pieces and they weren't fresh breaks, so it had been running like that for some time. Had some oil round the carb's choke horn when I bought it and it steadily got worse. Wasn't till I started feeling blow-by through the oil filler hole that I decided on the XADO.

---Since the rings were broken, and I figured new rings would most likely hit the ridge, I reamed the ridges off those cylinders. They weren't bad enough to entail doing so to get the pistons out, but enough to worry me. So now, I am not so worried about that, just slight worries about balance... ring gaps were well within specs so it couldn't be all that bad. Honed to wife's okay on groove/ridge (soft hands you know), crosshatched the cylinders w/a fine honing brush and slapped her back together after a cleaning. No new con rod bolts though :( and fergot to check threads so I could get some later.

---Don't have the figures with me right now; Or maybe I do... yes, and no, anyway, I bought the truck with somewhere around 250k on it. Not long after (mileage documented from the tire shop), I put on a set of 235 75 R16s on and some sporty new 16x8 White® "wagon" wheels... and then (mileage documented from purchase) some 265 75 R16s. Well a piece of pi while totaling tire revolution, brings me to 650,656 miles. I missed it's 500k celebration even if calculations were off 100k/120k/150k (which is doubtful).

---When she's back together I am going buy a keg, some steaks, fire up the grille and film firing her up. I don't expect it to blow up, but sure wouldn't want to miss the fireworks if she does... Film at 11.

---Here's the compression test (NIB, $26 MAC CT155 - gotta love eBay) that made me decide it was time to declare her dead.

(Clickity-click for larger image)
.

---I went through the old tubes of XADO and pulled about 0.5cc of product from all 3 combined. Bartered a tube of the cylinder treatment for $10.96 shipped in a BIN or BO listing on eBay and will mix em all together with some earl and divide it into 8 parts, then squirt one part in each cylinder. I'm not completely sold. I will say it blew the 40+ year old head gaskets, but I won't say it is no good. She read near 185 across the board on a dry test when I bought her.
 
Last edited:

Dennis Bernth

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
The Ferd is gone, long gone....clean forgot about this thread! It might have helped it, or it might have been wishful thinking, but it seemed to be a little quieter and smoother with it in. I didn't drive that thing very long before I got rid of it, it had other issues I didn't want to deal with and it seemed like the best way to go. It wasn't a local that bought it either, so I can't just pop in and ask how it's doing....wish I could, now you have me wondering!
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
---Awwwww shucks man. That was the key thing that perked me up after applying it. Much quieter, way less vibration and it wasn't straining like thicker oil or engine honey, etc. would cause. Simply said, it was like the engine yelled THANK YOU! cause the load was lessened.

---Wasn't long (well, 6k or so) after that "thank you" that the head gaskets blew. The old steel gaskets were well in tact so I gave em a good cleaning with my favorite polycarbide abrasive wheel (from WallyWorld - the 1" version, not this 1/2" one)...


. . .... scrubbed them well with mineral spirits and 3M pad (also from WallyWorld)...
4oy6syg

. . .... cleaned with acetone, then coated them with 4 even dustings, complete, light coats of copper Spray-a-Gasket and after a few days to cure, applied a thin layer of Copper Form-A-Gasket around cooling ports of head gsaket, allowed it to tack up and applied gasket, heads, torqued to 3lb-ft less than max... man I need to make a sling! Those heads are heavy.

---My view... it worked, but the 500k+ head gaskets couldn't take it.
 

Dennis Bernth

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
---Awwwww shucks man. That was the key thing that perked me up after applying it. Much quieter, way less vibration and it wasn't straining like thicker oil or engine honey, etc. would cause. Simply said, it was like the engine yelled THANK YOU! cause the load was lessened.

---Wasn't long (well, 6k or so) after that "thank you" that the head gaskets blew. The old steel gaskets were well in tact so I gave em a good cleaning with my favorite polycarbide abrasive wheel (from WallyWorld - the 1" version, not this 1/2" one)...


. . .... scrubbed them well with mineral spirits and 3M pad (also from WallyWorld)...
4oy6syg

. . .... cleaned with acetone, then coated them with 4 even dustings, complete, light coats of copper Spray-a-Gasket and after a few days to cure, applied a thin layer of Copper Form-A-Gasket around cooling ports of head gsaket, allowed it to tack up and applied gasket, heads, torqued to 3lb-ft less than max... man I need to make a sling! Those heads are heavy.

---My view... it worked, but the 500k+ head gaskets couldn't take it.

So did you reuse the head gaskets this time, or the time before? I think if it blew on two cylinders I'd have gone for new if I was doing all that work. I know the new composite head gaskets drop compression a little, but on a high mile engine that may not be a bad thing, keep the valves and all happier with the new rings.
Wish I knew how that stuff worked out long term, I wonder since you got 6K on it if it was even any cause of the gasket problems. Could have just been it's time, like a guy that gets a physical with a clean bill of health and goes feet up the following week, sometimes stuff is just worn out and waiting to go.
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
... So did you reuse the head gaskets this time, or the time before...
---This time. They were well enough in tact that I had no concerns about them giving way and machining costs were not a factor when this thread started, so I didn't use the 4 sets of composite gaskets I have sitting here. I am perfectly aware of the warnings on the label when working top and bottom end... yep, that's where the video camera will come in, so I am not oblivious to what could happen. It could just blow those cylinders again, but ehhhh, it was and will be fun and I predict nothing going to the scrap yard so no real loss.

---On the cylinder sleeve topic, I don't know what extent of racing/performance this guy has done here in Allison/Bonnet city (not country), and keeping in mind that a "good" (pfffft) Chitvy engine is only worth a few races, but when I approached a "reputable builder" (I am talking everyone* points to him first) regarding sleeving all cylinders, he said it wouldn't work cause the heads would shift... K, that settles it... I need to GTFO of Chitvy country and head back up to the Great Lakes region where people know how to build an engine, and sleeving an engine's cylinders isn't a hard thing to comprehend.

---My first hint to the extend of this "reputable" builder's knowledge should have been new crankshafts standing on end on the floor... granted in the corner where no one could knock them over (LOL), but... standing on end.

---I'm going to film the start-up just for the hay of it, but I have faith it'll make it all the way back up to the Great Lakes when that time comes, even pulling a trailer decorated with another IH, non-stop (except for gas) 900+ miles.
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
I was taught to store crankshafts on end - there are no other flat points available.
---Suspension is the best method. Off-set weight from the counterweights doesn't cause warpage when hung.

---This is a "professional engine builder" in the area where streets were named after Donnie Allison and Neil Bonnet. I would suggest more from them, but I've already witnessed here, a racer doing unacceptable quality (sub-par) work, on another racer's vehicle (transmission work), so I might not know the whole story when it comes to customers' crankshafts standing on end... lol.

---Could have been cores too... or scrap/trade-ins. This is still coal & steel industry.
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
---XADO can still be found on eBay and such, but the formula has changed and it's no longer manufactured under that name. The new formula is sold under the brand name FriktionTek. I have not used the new product, have no need to ATM, but if anyone else is willing to give it a go... I wish you fare well. Differences other than the supposed perfection of the treatment, are that they've moved strictly to the direct application rather than having multiple ways to treat a component & they've made application easier & more efficient by putting the treatment in syringes.

---Here's an eMail I received from them yesterday. Send me a PM if you want the discount code.

<table style="width: 567px; height: 231px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" class="ecxcouponContent" style="padding-top:10px;border-collapse:collapse;color:#505050;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;line-height:150%;text-align:left" valign="top">Thanks for being a loyal customer. We hope you and your friends enjoy this discount on any of our treatments.

With your discount, pay only:

  • $47.96 for an Engine Treatment
  • $59.96 for a Diesel Engine Treatment
  • $59.96 for both Automatic and Manual Transmission Treatments
  • $280 for Long Haul Diesel Engine Treatments
</td><td style="padding-top:20px;border-collapse:collapse" valign="top">
20% off ANY
FRIKTIONTEK TREATMENT

COUPON code
Exp 3/1/2012
</td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="ecxcouponContent" style="border-collapse:collapse;color:#505050;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;line-height:150%;text-align:left" valign="top">20% off your next CERAMIC AUTOMOTIVE TREATMENT purchase from the FriktionTek Store
</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="ecxcouponContent" style="padding-top:10px;border-collapse:collapse;color:#505050;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;line-height:150%;text-align:left" valign="top">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>---I'm disappointed. Not in the product, but because I had to migrate North, I didn't have time to retorque my head gaskets. Yep, puffing white smoke off one cylinder each side. The only smell is that of burnt antifreeze. There's no sign of blow-by, leaning out, misfire or anything. It wasn't that way during or after running it for two hours or loading it on the trailer. Had to have happened during/after cool-down. It's alright though. I'll swap the OEM gaskets for the new compression-challenged version, and while running these less economical gaskets try to get the OEM ones copied (even if I have to make them myself). With these engines, I've rarely seen the need* for milling and/or decking, so it makes absolutely no sense to damage the undamaged. I'd be more inclined to alter & install o-rings rather than go through "unnecessary BS" for sake of using a gasket.
 

Thomas

Dreams of Cub Cadets
---For those who feel froggy, XADO, through the many Ukrainian retailers, pretty much seems to be on clearance now at eBay. Maybe selling off the old product to make way for the new. "Pretty much" meaning, a 9ml tube that was $30-$40 is now running for $13-$15. Three tubes can be had for $34 w/free shipping, so if you want to be surprised at how quiet that shaky engine can get... before the new-found compression blows your head gasket... lol, if you have a dying engine you want to try this "Snake Oil" in, what's to lose by giving it a shot?

---After removing the ridges (so new cast iron rings had no chance of contacting them) and cleaning up #1 & #4, cleaning the old steel shim head gaskets, scuffing them and coating them with Copper Spray-a-Gasket, crosshatching the cylinders, fitting & checking end gap of the rings in the cylinders, cleaning the piston grooves, installing new con-rods and buttoning it all up with the altered double hump-11qt, Frankenpan, a mix of 25% synthetic 75% conventional 10w30 w/1oz of Lucas TB-Zinc Plus (plus coating the assemblies as well), priming the pump with my newly made priming tool, it was decided it was more economical to trailer StoneThrower to WI than pilot 3 vehicles, so she sat for nearly a year, with a few start/warm-ups to keep her blood pumping.

---Registered & Titled (as a Station Wagon :D) and tagged for $140, insured and gentle 1500RPM cruises to work and back, 50 miles each way, for another 1,000 miles on the archivometer and she's getting even more quiet than she was with dual OEM exhaust (less the sound dampening mat it may have had in its life). I've ordered another three tubes of the gasoline engine treatment, just for the sake of hoarding & she'll be getting ND SAE30 Alcela soon as I change the oil... and another tube of XADO, as well as treating her Ball Joints, U-Joints and wheel bearings with the restoring grease they created. I'll hold off on the Gear Box treatment for the M/T & T/C, but the differentials will be getting a tube each.

---In short, I'm sold on this cer-met. Here's to the Aussies that invented it :beer: and for the Aussies sending it to the Ukraine, so the greedy queen couldn't scavenge off it.

(FORTITER ET RECTE & SOYEZ SAGE!)
 
Top