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Russ McLean

High Wheeler
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
1,366
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Location
Hereford, AZ
See the silver dot? That is the point that rides on the distributor shaft. It needs to be lubricated to keep it alive.
mb19_67.jpg


Here's another shot of the new point set with the grease applied.
mb19_68.jpg

Um, I'm an old phart that grew up on points ignitions. That little silver dot is a rivet. The phenolic ridge to the right of the dot rides on the cam of the distributor shaft. It gets the grease. Just slide the pile of grease slightly to the right.

Sorry for the nit-pick. This is a great service for everyone - Please keep up the great work. :clap:

Thanks,

Russ
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
I appreciate the response. Honestly, the grease got to where it was supposed to go....by putting it where we showed. Not sure if it smeared during installation, or if this particular set rides on that nubbin, but still ~ No worries though.

Thanks for pointing out that one needs to make sure that the grease is put where the points ride the dissy shaft's block.
 

Seth Wright

Farmall Cub
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
142
Points
0
Location
Muncie, IN / Dayton, OH
Damian, thanks for putting together a great thread like this. There's plenty of guys out there like me who have only been tinkering with this stuff for a very short time (<2 yrs in my case) and there's just so many little things to learn. A lot of this stuff gets grouped into a generic sentence, "With a little tune up, it was running great!" and leaves stranded those of us who don't even know certain little parts exist that can make a big difference. It's not hard to find a running IH motor, but as seen on the board and from personal experience, comparing 1 running 345 to another running 345 with similar mileage may yield totally different results because of the little things like this! Keep up the good work, you've got me on the edge of my seat waiting on updates so I soak up some more knowledge! :rockon:
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
Damian, thanks for putting together a great thread like this. There's plenty of guys out there like me who have only been tinkering with this stuff for a very short time (<2 yrs in my case) and there's just so many little things to learn. A lot of this stuff gets grouped into a generic sentence, "With a little tune up, it was running great!" and leaves stranded those of us who don't even know certain little parts exist that can make a big difference.
That right there is exactly why we're doing this Thread. It may not be as totally custom as Cringer or Canuck, but it gives some good information and detailed pictures.

I'm grateful for the shops who are helping with this build. Namely IHOnlyNorth.com as well as Performance Distributors, American Speed, MufflerMasters, and several of the IH guys in my club for donating time, parts, services and all to help us put this build together.

PLEASE remember to thank them when you're talking to them. MAKE SURE you tell them that you saw their parts in this thread and let them know if you're buying from them as a result their help with this thread. Your telling them that helps by showing that their participation is worth while.

...you've got me on the edge of my seat waiting on updates so I soak up some more knowledge! :rockon:
A HUGE compliment. Thank you. This is the reason I do these builds.
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
Just wanted to update ya'll let you know what has happened since putting the air/fuel filter, cap/rotor and points/condenser in. Although Its not technically ready for the first dyno, I ran a tank full of gas through it ~ strictly city driving. Mileage went from 8.5 to 9.27mpg. Doesn't seem like much, but that's a 9% increase ~ or in laymans terms, its saving me $3-4 PER TANK ~ and this thing has two tanks and this past tank lasted me 4 days. So, if you were to calculate it out, that's saving me $22.50 per month ~ or almost one tank less of fuel consumption each month.

Still need to change the oil, put new plugs and the new wires in, and adjust the timing. Next tank will have that info.
 

bdgn01

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
375
Points
18
Location
Baltimore, MD
Seconding the thanks. This is great information for people like me, who have been farting around with SV engines for years without really knowing exactly how to do things (it's a miracle and a testament to its durability, really, that my truck is still running).

Keep up the good work–I'll be watching and learning.
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
I got an email over the week with some good information. So I'm going to post it.

[the] points with the felt rubbing block (Standard #IH4281XP) will last longer than the regular set that needs the 'grease' applied. The felt piece will need a couple drops of clean motor oil and rubs against the dist cam for continuous lubrication.

The 'points' will probably need to be re-gapped from the points material burning away rather than due to the cam/rubbing block wear. I use the heavy duty points (with the felt piece) and they seem to last over 10,000 miles. Do check the dwell again after a couple hundred miles as the 'high spots' on the rubbing block will wear down changing the dwell numbers. That applies to either style points set.

If you set the gap to the 'loose' side, the initial wear of the rubbing block may bring the dwell right into spec at 28-32 degrees.

I find it much easier to pull the distributor to set the points. It is easier than 'bumping' the starter to get the high point of the cam in the dist. Seems like it either needs 'just a touch more' to 'OOPS'! Getting the distributor back in the correct position is not a problem as I have a 'pointer' on the waterpump bolt and a 'line' on the dist cap.

Picture [1] is a red pointer with the much larger Ford Duraspark II cap.

Picture [2] is what the pointers look like. I now use the polished SS version.

[picture 3] shows the pointer mounted to the backside of the waterpump bolt and the mark on the dist cap of the IH style cap.

Bill Bennett 68 Travelall 304
 

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Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
Well you guys are right, its been way to long since I've updated my builds. So lets get started shall we?

We last saw the T-ette after some mild/moderate tuning. The gain was about 9% in mpgs. Now lets take a look at what the truck will do on the freeway.
mb19_84.jpg


During my 'break' from the builds, I found a GPS unit my wifey got me over 3 years ago. So I'll be using that to track mileage and other things about the trip (since my speedo is a little off).
mb19_85.jpg

You need at least 4 satellites for a GPS to work. Here's the beginning screen. I've got plenty. Lets roll.

So I planned a trip down to Pueblo for the first 'highway' mileage test. Remember, these will be a base-line for me ~ we still need to do an oil-change and do the plugs and wires before we make the official run, but still, lets see what happens.

First step, since my fuel gauge is on the fritz, make sure we have plenty to make the trip.
mb19_86.jpg


Gotta love the spillage the T-ette always leaves.
mb19_87.jpg


Topping off with about 5 gallons, its time to go.
mb19_88.jpg


Although this is not the official trip, I do want to make sure that I got a good idea of what to expect. So I kept track of the cross-town mileage. From here, its all highway.
mb19_89.jpg


And with the speedo nailed at 60mph (GPS read 66), I was the first leg.
mb19_90.jpg


At 48.87 miles, I reached my destination.
mb19_91.jpg

As you can see, the max speed on the trip is 73.7mph (didn't know my truck goes that fast as smoothly as I was chuggin along). What I'm looking at is the average moving speed vs. the average over-all speed. Frankly, the close they get, the more accurate the outcome. Meaning, you'd expect them to be different if we were in town all the time (since you're stopping and starting constantly) ~ but on the highway ~ if you were truly on the highway only, they'd be extremely close. Here we see about a 7.5mph difference...showing we had sat at a few red lights.

At Dons.
mb19_92.jpg


Loaded up my loot and started back.
mb19_93.jpg
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
So once I was back, I pulled up to the same gas station, and even used the same pump ~ just 2.5 hours later. Total mileage:
mb19_94.jpg

96.48 total. Moving average was 54.7mph, overall average 48.7mph, with a max speed of 74.9 Something to notice. Notice my elevation: We are 6292 MSL (above sea level) at the gas station ~ now lets bring back the picture at Don's Salvage
mb19_91.jpg

Here you see we travelled DOWN to 4706 MSL. Meaning here in Colorado, we traveled DOWN 1586 feet in elevation in less than 50 miles. That's life in Colorado!

So how much fuel did we use?
mb19_95.jpg

Hot dang, I'll be honest, I was hoping for over 10mpg. Yikes.:no: What does this mean?

An overall mileage of 9.55 ~ that's bad. I say over-all because we had some city mileage in there didn't we... Lets see what the actual mileage was. To that, its going to take another day, and another partial tank of gas. Which I'll post a little later...
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
Alright, lets do some math. REMEMBER ~ this is not the official baseline. We have done a half tune-up at this point (points, cap/rotor/ fuel filter, carb cleaner, and such).

Total miles was 96.48
Total gas: 10.1
Total city mile was 13.3 (6.65 x 2)
Total highway miles 83.18

I did a little test, and the reported mileage of 9.xx has gone down. Its now about 9mpg.
So 13.3 miles at 9mpg means I used 1.48 gallons driving to and from the highway.
THEREFORE the remaining 83.18 miles used 8.62 gallons (10.1-1.48) which is 9.64 miles per gallon on the highway. Still lower than 10mpg. I was hoping for at least 10. Well lets continue this saga.

Its time to break out the new wires. These were aquired from IHOnly North (www.ihonlynorth.com). Jeff sells them as a DIY kit. They're inexpensive, but they do require some assembly.
mb19_96.jpg


Next were the spark plugs. I'll admit, when I went into my local Checker/O'Rielly I asked for the Bosch super expensive things. Then I thought: Wait, what does the guy behind the counter say. So I asked, and he said, 'Standard Autolite's have always done good by me!' ~ so I ditched the $6/plug stuff for these $1-2/plug. We'll see where it goes from there.
mb19_97.jpg


As I said before, when we first changed the points/cap/rotor, the mileage spiked to over 9 miles per gallon. But since then, its been less. I wondered why. Then I realized that when I had an ignition failure (lost power) I jumped an old switched 'hot' wire directly to the coil. This gave it full power all the time. So when the engine is running, and my new alternator is pumping out 14-15 volts, that new set of points is eating every last bit of it.

For those of you who don't know, points aren't normally supposed to eat that much voltage ~ actually it depends on the model. But really, the points can burn up...so I thought, ah crap, I burnt up a new set of points. So I made another call to Jeff @ IHOnly North. And a few days later, I got this:
mb19_98.jpg


Inside it, are these...
mb19_99.jpg

A replacement set of points (just in case) and that big white thing. The big white thing is called a ballast resistor. They were used in old cars/trucks to help reduce the voltage going to the coil. This kept the points alive longer, and helped prolong the time between tune-ups. With that, I made my way over to Ed's shop. Ed owns a car repair place down below the first D&C shop. We've been friends ever since, and when I told him what I was doing, he said he would lend a hand. So with parts in hand, I made my way over.

First step was to remove all the plugs and see if there are any problems. I have not pulled the plugs since I bought the t-ette many years ago, and I was wondering what I'd see.
mb19_100.jpg


To my surprise, the plugs looked pretty good. Even with the crappy mileage, they were slightly brownish/cream.
mb19_101.jpg


Now Ed started talking about plugs, and how impressed he was in the old plugs condition. So I had to ask ~ what's up with the plugs. And that got him talkin.
mb19_102.jpg

You can tell alot about how the engine is running by looking at the white ceramic nub that the electrode sticks out of (in the middle of the plug). If its BRIGHT white ~ your too lean. If its black, your too rich. If its corroded up with oil or is wet, you know you're rings could be bad.. So it all boils down to, what color do you want to see. He says, creamy or light brown. Which is what I got...so I was pleased. Honestly, with the mileage I was getting, I was expecting a darker color.

The next thing is to compare the old plugs to the new ones. This ensures you got the right ones at the store.
mb19_103.jpg

Sure enough...the new ones look different. So I called another store to check the part number, and they confirmed that what I got was what they had in their computer. Sure hope they didn't guess when assigning numbers.
mb19_104.jpg
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
Now what do you NOT want to see when pulling your plugs.

Excessive gap, and corroded...like so.
mb19_105.jpg


Here's an oil-fouled plug.
mb19_106.jpg


Ed brought out his little do-hicky for plugs.
mb19_107.jpg


While removing the plugs, Ed will put each plug in its coresponding hole. This allows him to keep track of what plug came from what cylinder. Doesn't seem that important when your motor is running decent, but if you start running into problems and fouled plugs, its nice to keep track of where it came from for repairs.
mb19_108.jpg


With all the plugs out, this little piece of wood also allows you to look at all the plugs side-by-side.
mb19_109.jpg

Looks like a consistent running motor. All the plugs look like the same. That means all the cylinders are firing evenly. I will say that the white on top of the plugs got me a little worried that I may be running a little lean.

Next up, compression test it. Ed has the tools handy, so we start plugging the compression tester in one cylinder at a time.
mb19_110.jpg


A compression tester is nothing more than a tube that seals into the sparkplug holes, it has an air pressure gauge at one end, and a check-valve to hold the highest pressure.
mb19_111.jpg


To use it, simply put your foot to the floor (as not to create a blockage by the carb) and crank the engine for about 4 seconds.
mb19_112.jpg


Then read the gauge.
mb19_113.jpg


Depending on what kind of motor you have you can get anything from 100-200psi. Our IH motors are FAR from high-compression motors, so at my altitude you'd want between 110-150. Back when Rod of Giddum Up Scout was in business, he sold used motors out of Scouts he'd dismantle for parts. I asked him once what a good motor is, and he said he wouldn't sell anything under 120psi compression. My motor...OUCH 110psi. To be honest, that's as low as you'd want.

(Just for comparison, for those of you who noticed, the trip to Don's in Pueblo yielded a 1993 VW 2.0 16v motor for a project (not a scout). I inquired about its compression tests before picking it up and the yard (who tests all its motors) tested it out to 170psi)

Anyway onward and....downward? Second cylinder: 105.... even worse. I was not liking this one bit. But Ed quickly jumped for his battery charger.
mb19_114.jpg

He said, your battery's weak. The slower the motor cranks, the less the compression.
mb19_115.jpg


Sure enough, with the motor crankin' noticeably faster, compression jumped to 120 across the board.
mb19_116.jpg

At the beginning it wasn't so, but the longer the charger was on, the better the motor cranked. By the time we got to cylinder #7 was at 130. I was pleased.

The only thing I'd like to add at this point, is that you typically don't want more than about 10% difference between your cylinders. If one is much lower than the others, its an indication of something wrong with the motor. If you're looking at a Scout to buy, and the compression numbers aren't within about 10psi of each other ~ in particular if one is way lower than the others, you may want to look for another Scout ~ or plan on some engine work.
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
Moving along... time to put the new plugs in.

Behold the infamous plug gaping tool. I don't know why, but I hate these things. They seem to be everywhere, and no body uses them.
mb19_117.jpg


To use this plug gap tool, simply insert the steadily growing wedge into the gap in the electrode of your plug, then rotate it till it gets to the gap you want.
mb19_118.jpg


I know what you're going to say at this picture..
mb19_119.jpg

.045" gap ~ that's too much! Easy tiger, the gap closes due to the metals memory. We ended up at about .040" ~ and thats because the coil I used is a little hot ~ aka high voltage. When gapping plugs, you want to make sure you have the energy for the spark to jump the gap and still be strong. The better the spark, the better the ignition process. The better the process, the better the burn, the better the burn, the more power your motor makes.

After we're done with this leg of the test, we'll be installing a DUI distributor ~ and it's coil is even hotter (more voltage) than the one we have now. Bigger spark, bigger bang.

With the plugs gapped the same, they were installed and we reached for the next step of this tuneup. That's right...
mb19_120.jpg

PLUG WIRES.

I'm going to be brutally honest here. I hate these wires. Okay, maybe that's too strong. I dislike them. SURE they're a good performance wire, YES they'll serve a long time. But....
mb19_121.jpg

...if you don't have one of these. Your screwed. Guess, what. I don't have one of those. And that's a key reason I enlisted Ed to help with this. He does. So if you're in the market for doing a tuneup and don't want to buy a crimping tool to do it, have Jeff @ www.IHOnlyNorth.com send you some pre-cut/crimped wires. YES they'll cost a little more, but they'll save you about 1:30 minutes and the cost of a tool when installing the wires. That to me is well worth the $$ on the pre-crimped stuff.

Anyway, the tool aside, this is one of the pre-crimped ends. This is what you want to end up like.
mb19_122.jpg

Lets see how we do.
 

EagleMark

Banned
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Messages
1,169
Points
0
Location
North Idaho
Darn! I was just getting interested and you stopped! :no:

All good stuff though Damian. Lots of guys don't know these basic issues you are covering. Kudos!

FYI those universal spark plug wire kits usually come with a small crimp tool you can use in a vise. Of course the one you show is a better tool.

Didn't see mentioned what size motor this is?
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
Darn! I was just getting interested and you stopped! :no:
Ya, I know. Between the holiday season, then some unexpected events, I've been playing catch-up on orders and projects. In that order.

All good stuff though Damian. Lots of guys don't know these basic issues you are covering. Kudos!
Hopefully with a little work, we'll have dyno results too. I know NOBODY knows what effects IH motors in the dyno arena. All we currently have is the 'seat of our pants'.

FYI those universal spark plug wire kits usually come with a small crimp tool you can use in a vise. Of course the one you show is a better tool.
This set did not. Wish it did tho... Would have made doing the wires much easier. I know the wires are good decent wires, and they will live long ~ but man, I couldn't bring myself to buy a crimper for them.

Didn't see mentioned what size motor this is?
Stock 345.
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
Got the pictures up, lets add some text.

Here's the performance wire kit from Jeff @ IH Only North. ( www.IHOnlyNorth.com )
mb19_123.jpg


Spread out to check parts/pieces. Its always good to lay out your parts for easy access as well as to verify what you have. As you can see, there are more than enough boots for the distributor cap. This allows us to use either 90* elbows or straight ones. Honestly, I like 90's best, they help lay out the wires....
mb19_124.jpg

But we used the straights for simplicity.

First step is to measure out the wires themselves. The longest ones need to go to the cylinders farthest away, so we used the short wires for the cylinders closest to the cap. Here's Ed sorting through which new wire has the length closest to the first old wire.
mb19_125.jpg


Once put together, its easy to see where to cut the wire to match the old one's length....
mb19_126.jpg

We simply used some 'snips' (wire cutters) to cut the new wire to length. It should be mentioned that the new wires are LONG. This allows you to build them however you want. If you want to do something with routing, or route them differently, simply cut them to the length you want rather than what the old wires were.

The crimping tool doesn't just crimp, it also strips.
mb19_127.jpg


Giving a little length, simply squeeze the tool...
mb19_128.jpg


Then you can use a twisting motion to remove the stripped insulation.
mb19_129.jpg


The exposed wire is then wrapped/held back down the wire, and the metal crimp is put on to hold it in place.
mb19_130.jpg


Like so.
mb19_131.jpg


Easier said than done, I used Ed's hands to put the crimp/wire into the crimping tool. (proved to difficult with a camera in your hands!).
mb19_132.jpg
 
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Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
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Location
Colorado Springs
With the crimp tool on its first 'click' (it ratchets) I made sure the crimp is in the tool properly.
mb19_133.jpg


...Then squeeze till the tool is fully closed and the crimp is made.
mb19_134.jpg


I should have said ~ make sure you put the boot ON before crimping, if you forget, you can slide it on 'after-the-fact' but its easier to put it on before. To help the boot slide into place, we used a little dielectric grease..
mb19_135.jpg


When put in controlled amounts, it won't make a mess, but will help the new TIGHT boots slide over the 'dry' wires.
mb19_136.jpg


Another shot.
mb19_137.jpg


Compared to the old boots and wires...
mb19_138.jpg

...these new ones are like night-and-day!

What about the 'spark plug' end of the wires? These are already pre-crimped and the boots are 'mostly' in place.
mb19_139.jpg


However, the boots don't want to move for nothing. The grease used before is too thick and hard to apply to use here, but Ed did reach for some...
mb19_140.jpg

...chain and cable fluid? Okay.

With a little sprayed into the boot (what's nice is that the long straw lets you get it deep in there)...
mb19_141.jpg


...The boots moved relatively easily. We used the old boots to see where to put the placement of the crimps in the boot.
mb19_142.jpg
 
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Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
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Messages
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Location
Colorado Springs
Here you can actually see the ledge in the boot ~ actually ended up where the crimp needed to be...
mb19_143.jpg

Once the wire is built, go ahead and plug it in! Okay. Repeat that for the other 8 wires ~ Yes there are eight more.

Now that's done, lets clean up a little. As you can see, the wires look pretty good. Yellow stands out quite a bit against the IH red motor.
mb19_144.jpg


But to make things a little more 'clean' ~ go get yourself one of those 1,000 packs of zip-ties. We are not JUST going to tie the wires together because back in the old days they liked seeing a little gap (since putting older wires side-by-side used to create a little mis-fire ~ old technology). Although that's not as important these days, I do like the wires looking relatively clean and organized. And having them draped across the engine bay like the old trashy ones doesn't do much for me.

So taking two zip ties...
mb19_145.jpg


I put one around the two wires (loosely)...
mb19_146.jpg


...and the second between them like so...
mb19_147.jpg


Tighten them up carefully. Zip ties have sharp edges where they tough the wires, you can easily cut into the protective jacket around the wires creating problems if you're not careful. I don't tighten them much at all ~
mb19_148.jpg


One side done. As you can see, there are several places I put these 'holders' in to keep things neat. You can also see I could have shortened the wires a little too!
mb19_149.jpg


Moving to the other side you can see how I work from the back of the motor towards the front. I keep the zip-ties loose so that I can still adjust the wires before cinching them down. This allows you to get an over-all picture, then change it up if needed. If you cinch them down right off the bat, you may end up cutting them off and re-doing things till you get the look you want.
mb19_150.jpg


As you can see as the wires approach the cap things get a little 'haywire'. ~ I simply unplug and reroute each wire till it gets as clean as it can be. Using the 90 degree elbows instead of the straights at the cap would have made this look cleaner.

After getting the wires as 'untangled' as possible, one last zip-tie group is put in to hold them steady.
mb19_151.jpg


Standing back a little you can see the end result.
mb19_152.jpg
 
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EagleMark

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Thought this would help your wiring locations! :punk:
 

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