crazyeight
Farmall Cub
Great work Toby!!! Guess I dropped the ball on getting the TBI from my, uhh, source...
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What’s all this, then?
- Thread starter Monkeyplasm
- Start date
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
I vant to take your pulse; you can call me DRAC
Our Scouts, like a great many older US-manufactured vehicles, use a mechanical speedometer drive cable that attaches to the transfer case output shaft (or transmission output shaft for 2wd vehicles). The cable spins at 1000 revs per mile and that is what the speedometer is calibrated for.
The speedometer cable is driven by a 2-gear setup. The drive gear is mounted on the output shaft of the transmission and may be plastic or metal. Here's a picture I nabbed from the web.
The driven gear (usually plastic, but may be metal) is just adjacent to and interfaces with the drive gear. It is usually mounted in a small removable 'plug' housing. On the left are the drive gear and housing (plus a random bolt!); on the right is the installed housing with a speedo cable installed. These are random representative pics from the web - they are not all from the same vehicle.
Here they all are together in a cutaway view:
One can change the tooth count on the drive gear (not usually done) or the driven gear (much more common). Replacement gears are available on the net from places like /www.transmissioncenter.net which usually also have an online calculator to figure out what replacement gear you need to get back to 1000 revs per mile. Another option is to add a 'speedometer corrector' device in-line with the speedo cable. This is just a little gearbox that adjusts the revs per mile by a fixed factor. You may already have one on your truck now. Good luck finding the proper little corrector box when you need it. P.S. You have to do this every time you change tire size or gearing.
The GM TBI computer wants to receive vehicle speed information in the form of 2000 electrical pules per mile. One may employ a pass-through adapter in-line with the speedo cable. The device produces a set number of pulses per revolution of the speedo cable (usually 2 or 4). Using a 2-pulse adaper would produce 2000 revs per mile - ASSUMING your speedo drive/driven gears are correct for your tire size and differential gearing. This allows you to continue to use your speedo cable for the speedometer while providing the 2000 pulse per mile signal the TBI computer wants to see. These are a great option if you're keeping the factory mechanical speedometer. The fuel injection FAQ has more on this piece. I think they are about $90 shipped.
Never being one to do anything the easy way, I did something different. "NO WAY, DUDE!" you shout at the top of your incredulous lungs. Yes, it is true. I'm doing something more complex and difficult for very little additional benefit.
Starting in 1990 GM switched to electronic speedometers instead of mechanical cable speedometers. The transmissions (and t-cases) now employed a 40-tooth drive gear on the output shaft and a magnetic pickup in the tailhousing. This 40 pulse signal was fed to a little 'pre-computer' computer called a DRAC (Digital Ratio Adapter Computer, or Controller, or Cantaloupe, or other C-word). The job of the DRAC is to convert the 40 pulse signal into three different outputs: (1) 2000 pulse per mile for the computer, (2) 4000 pulse per mile for the cruise control and the speedometer, and (3) 128,000 pulse per mile for the ABS.
The DRAC still needs to be set for your tire size and gear ratio - GM was dumb and hard wired each DRAC. Fortunately, one can re-wire the DRAC, or better yet, add dip-switches to the DRAC and have very simple user-adjustability. There are several write-ups on the web detailing this process. Here's a great one with pics and explanation: A Great One
Of note, poor old DRAC only lasted 2 years (1990-1991). However, his son lived on and was called VSSB (Vehicle Speed Sensor Buffer). The only difference was VSSB had a little extra circuitry to also talk to the electronic transmissions offered beginning in 1992. You can still use a VSSB if you can't find a DRAC - even if you're not runnning an electronic tranmsision.
I want to use a DRAC/VSSB to get both 2000 pulses per mile (for the TBI computer) and 4000 pulses per mile for the stock Chevy cruise control. The Chevy cruise control is a stand-alone, servo-controlled unit (no vacuum lines or chambers!) which easily attaches to the TBI - it's stock GM equipment. It is also only $15 at the junkyard. You can even get one from a car with a longer cable so you can put the cruise box anywhere in the engine bay. This cruise unit does not interface with the TBI computer - just the DRAC/VSSB.
OK, so now you're wondering why not just add another cable speedo adapter to the mechanical speedo cable: One 2 pulse per rev unit for the TBI computer and one 4 pulse per rev unit for the cruise control. Beside being a hokey-long mess, especially if one were to also employ an in-line ratio corrector, each X pulse per rev unit is around $90 shipped. $180 for adapters? Too much! $15 for the Chevy cruise is better.
OK smart guy, how about $90 for the 2 pulse unit and add an aftermarket cruise control? You mean the $200 aftermarket cruise controls now available? The days of the $80 aftermarket Audiovox cruise are long gone. Too much! $15 for the Chevy cruise is better.
OK, so DRAC/VSSB it is!
You may recall, dear reader, that I hemmed and hawed about which t-case to use with the 700r4. The choices were basically an easily found NP208 or a rare NP241 (passenger drop). I went with the NP208 - even converting it to a fixed-yoke output. Well, it turns out that the NP208 never had a VSS. I should have held out for a passenger drop NP241 with the factory VSS. I wouldn't have had the cheap fixed- yoke conversion, but I wouldn't have had to do this:
Fortunately the NP208 and the NP241 (and many other NP transfer cases) use the same size and spline count output shafts - where the speedo drive goes. The NP241's metal 40 tooth VSS drive gear ('reluctor') fits on the NP208 output shaft just fine. It is, however, narrower (front to rear) than the plastic NP208 speedo drive gear. To make up the difference, I'll cut a little section off the plastic NP208 gear to act as a spacer.
NP208 Speedo Gear and output shaft:
The VSS pickup (sensor) normally screws into the output housing and sits a few gazillionths of an inch away from the 40 tooth reluctor. I looked at adding the VSS pickup through the mechanical speedo drive window. It was doable but the angle made it prohibitively difficult. Instead I chopped a new window into the housing with a cutoff wheel (4.5" grinder) and a dremel tool. I will have a piece of aluminum flat bar or angle welded in place 'water-tight' for no leaky-leaky of the gear oil. Then it's drill and tap time. Mounting depth will be close to correct and can be adjusted via copper or aluminum shims or crush washers, or even an o-ring. The stock mechanical drive window will get plugged - probably with a freeze plug.
Alternatively, I may hack a chunk out of the NP233 housing (the part with the threaded sensor hole) and weld that sucker into the new 'window' in the NP208 housing.
Here's a NP233 outut housing with the reluctor and VSS in place:
Here's the NP233 from the outside - note the sensor points directly at the center of the output shaft versus the offset mechanical gear setup of the NP208 in the picture below.
See? Much more work and difficulty than required!
Our Scouts, like a great many older US-manufactured vehicles, use a mechanical speedometer drive cable that attaches to the transfer case output shaft (or transmission output shaft for 2wd vehicles). The cable spins at 1000 revs per mile and that is what the speedometer is calibrated for.
The speedometer cable is driven by a 2-gear setup. The drive gear is mounted on the output shaft of the transmission and may be plastic or metal. Here's a picture I nabbed from the web.
The driven gear (usually plastic, but may be metal) is just adjacent to and interfaces with the drive gear. It is usually mounted in a small removable 'plug' housing. On the left are the drive gear and housing (plus a random bolt!); on the right is the installed housing with a speedo cable installed. These are random representative pics from the web - they are not all from the same vehicle.
Here they all are together in a cutaway view:
One can change the tooth count on the drive gear (not usually done) or the driven gear (much more common). Replacement gears are available on the net from places like /www.transmissioncenter.net which usually also have an online calculator to figure out what replacement gear you need to get back to 1000 revs per mile. Another option is to add a 'speedometer corrector' device in-line with the speedo cable. This is just a little gearbox that adjusts the revs per mile by a fixed factor. You may already have one on your truck now. Good luck finding the proper little corrector box when you need it. P.S. You have to do this every time you change tire size or gearing.
The GM TBI computer wants to receive vehicle speed information in the form of 2000 electrical pules per mile. One may employ a pass-through adapter in-line with the speedo cable. The device produces a set number of pulses per revolution of the speedo cable (usually 2 or 4). Using a 2-pulse adaper would produce 2000 revs per mile - ASSUMING your speedo drive/driven gears are correct for your tire size and differential gearing. This allows you to continue to use your speedo cable for the speedometer while providing the 2000 pulse per mile signal the TBI computer wants to see. These are a great option if you're keeping the factory mechanical speedometer. The fuel injection FAQ has more on this piece. I think they are about $90 shipped.
Never being one to do anything the easy way, I did something different. "NO WAY, DUDE!" you shout at the top of your incredulous lungs. Yes, it is true. I'm doing something more complex and difficult for very little additional benefit.
Starting in 1990 GM switched to electronic speedometers instead of mechanical cable speedometers. The transmissions (and t-cases) now employed a 40-tooth drive gear on the output shaft and a magnetic pickup in the tailhousing. This 40 pulse signal was fed to a little 'pre-computer' computer called a DRAC (Digital Ratio Adapter Computer, or Controller, or Cantaloupe, or other C-word). The job of the DRAC is to convert the 40 pulse signal into three different outputs: (1) 2000 pulse per mile for the computer, (2) 4000 pulse per mile for the cruise control and the speedometer, and (3) 128,000 pulse per mile for the ABS.
The DRAC still needs to be set for your tire size and gear ratio - GM was dumb and hard wired each DRAC. Fortunately, one can re-wire the DRAC, or better yet, add dip-switches to the DRAC and have very simple user-adjustability. There are several write-ups on the web detailing this process. Here's a great one with pics and explanation: A Great One
Of note, poor old DRAC only lasted 2 years (1990-1991). However, his son lived on and was called VSSB (Vehicle Speed Sensor Buffer). The only difference was VSSB had a little extra circuitry to also talk to the electronic transmissions offered beginning in 1992. You can still use a VSSB if you can't find a DRAC - even if you're not runnning an electronic tranmsision.
I want to use a DRAC/VSSB to get both 2000 pulses per mile (for the TBI computer) and 4000 pulses per mile for the stock Chevy cruise control. The Chevy cruise control is a stand-alone, servo-controlled unit (no vacuum lines or chambers!) which easily attaches to the TBI - it's stock GM equipment. It is also only $15 at the junkyard. You can even get one from a car with a longer cable so you can put the cruise box anywhere in the engine bay. This cruise unit does not interface with the TBI computer - just the DRAC/VSSB.
OK, so now you're wondering why not just add another cable speedo adapter to the mechanical speedo cable: One 2 pulse per rev unit for the TBI computer and one 4 pulse per rev unit for the cruise control. Beside being a hokey-long mess, especially if one were to also employ an in-line ratio corrector, each X pulse per rev unit is around $90 shipped. $180 for adapters? Too much! $15 for the Chevy cruise is better.
OK smart guy, how about $90 for the 2 pulse unit and add an aftermarket cruise control? You mean the $200 aftermarket cruise controls now available? The days of the $80 aftermarket Audiovox cruise are long gone. Too much! $15 for the Chevy cruise is better.
OK, so DRAC/VSSB it is!
You may recall, dear reader, that I hemmed and hawed about which t-case to use with the 700r4. The choices were basically an easily found NP208 or a rare NP241 (passenger drop). I went with the NP208 - even converting it to a fixed-yoke output. Well, it turns out that the NP208 never had a VSS. I should have held out for a passenger drop NP241 with the factory VSS. I wouldn't have had the cheap fixed- yoke conversion, but I wouldn't have had to do this:
Fortunately the NP208 and the NP241 (and many other NP transfer cases) use the same size and spline count output shafts - where the speedo drive goes. The NP241's metal 40 tooth VSS drive gear ('reluctor') fits on the NP208 output shaft just fine. It is, however, narrower (front to rear) than the plastic NP208 speedo drive gear. To make up the difference, I'll cut a little section off the plastic NP208 gear to act as a spacer.
NP208 Speedo Gear and output shaft:
The VSS pickup (sensor) normally screws into the output housing and sits a few gazillionths of an inch away from the 40 tooth reluctor. I looked at adding the VSS pickup through the mechanical speedo drive window. It was doable but the angle made it prohibitively difficult. Instead I chopped a new window into the housing with a cutoff wheel (4.5" grinder) and a dremel tool. I will have a piece of aluminum flat bar or angle welded in place 'water-tight' for no leaky-leaky of the gear oil. Then it's drill and tap time. Mounting depth will be close to correct and can be adjusted via copper or aluminum shims or crush washers, or even an o-ring. The stock mechanical drive window will get plugged - probably with a freeze plug.
Alternatively, I may hack a chunk out of the NP233 housing (the part with the threaded sensor hole) and weld that sucker into the new 'window' in the NP208 housing.
Here's a NP233 outut housing with the reluctor and VSS in place:
Here's the NP233 from the outside - note the sensor points directly at the center of the output shaft versus the offset mechanical gear setup of the NP208 in the picture below.
See? Much more work and difficulty than required!
J.J.
Lives in an IH Dealership
Great work Toby!!! Guess I dropped the ball on getting the TBI from my, uhh, source...
Mike, you should know better than to buy products from guys hanging out near pay phones
Toby, it looks great. Nice to see all of the Pull A Part pieces in action. What are you going to do with your 1406? I would like it for Mrs JJ's Scout
JJ in TN
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Driver's Floor - Exodus
Is that yellow Paint? Was this a taxi?
No ma'am, that's yellow primer.
Portions of the driver's front floor on Red Power look OK from the top. The front body mount area and kick panel are pretty bad (bondo hiding 75% of the damage), plus there's some hole action in the rear, outisde corner by the dogleg. However, the view from the underneath, while not horrific, is pretty bad; all the floor supports are structurally unsound trash.
The entire floor from seam to seam, less a small strip by the trans tunnel, is now gone. The inner rocker was a ruptured fault line, now gone. The outer rocker was the short 'patch panel' version, now gone but may be usable on another rig. The lower kickpanel is gone.
Had I realized the extent of the damage at the leading vertical seam of the kickpanel I would have bought a full kickpanel instead of the lower patch. Some scrap sheetmetal should clear this up.
Despite the pics showing not to much damage, the mid body mount is paper thin in several spots and rusted through in others. Looks like I'll need to remove the quarter panel before fixing that area.
May as well remove the quarter for better access to the mid mount; not to mention the lower inner quarter panel extensions that need attention. The splash panel at the wheel well is about 80% bondo. I had hoped to get the front done before pulling the quarter panel, but I guess now is a good a time as any.
Is that yellow Paint? Was this a taxi?
No ma'am, that's yellow primer.
Portions of the driver's front floor on Red Power look OK from the top. The front body mount area and kick panel are pretty bad (bondo hiding 75% of the damage), plus there's some hole action in the rear, outisde corner by the dogleg. However, the view from the underneath, while not horrific, is pretty bad; all the floor supports are structurally unsound trash.
The entire floor from seam to seam, less a small strip by the trans tunnel, is now gone. The inner rocker was a ruptured fault line, now gone. The outer rocker was the short 'patch panel' version, now gone but may be usable on another rig. The lower kickpanel is gone.
Had I realized the extent of the damage at the leading vertical seam of the kickpanel I would have bought a full kickpanel instead of the lower patch. Some scrap sheetmetal should clear this up.
Despite the pics showing not to much damage, the mid body mount is paper thin in several spots and rusted through in others. Looks like I'll need to remove the quarter panel before fixing that area.
May as well remove the quarter for better access to the mid mount; not to mention the lower inner quarter panel extensions that need attention. The splash panel at the wheel well is about 80% bondo. I had hoped to get the front done before pulling the quarter panel, but I guess now is a good a time as any.
Jeff Jamison
Lives in an IH Dealership
I just did my mid mount,I have the outer chrome molding,so I cut behind it,removed the lower front of the quarter,put in mount and tacked the quarter peice back on.Easy enough to do if you dont need to remove the quarter for anything else.
Jeff
Jeff
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Excellent suggestion. However, the quarter panel already has a decent patch job there, plus I do need to address inner wheel well issues in addition to general cleaning, de-rusting and bedlining in the hidden recesses of the q-panel area. That was going to happen anyway.
I really just don't want to pull the roof to get the q-panel off (even though it'll go right back on), as it's probably doing a lot to hold the truck together with no floor or rockers on the left side. Not the end of the world - just part of life in the big city.
It may not be so bad. I'm debating just replacing the lower half of the mid-mount; the top half (being the step face and the part attached to the cargo floor) is still pretty solid.
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Opening the Window
From some reasonably accurate measurements at the junkyard I had determined via feeler gauge that the 'air gap' between the VSS and the tone wheel to be around .028.
With that in mind I mocked up the modified NP208 output housing to the NP208. The output housing is rotated upside down in the pics - that was for easy right-side-up viewing and measurements. The vss will point almost straight down when finally installed. Note the housing is loosely installed in some pics and bolted on in others.
Here is the VSS standing "in place" on the tone ring with a .025 feeler gauge in between to "set" the air gap close to stock.
A 1/4" AL plate would fill the 'window' nicely and leave the sensor positioned well, but it would be a little thin for the sensor's threads. The VSS threads are 3/4" x 16tpi so I would only get 4 threads engagement: Probably OK since this is not a high stress situation.
Here's a reminder of the mechanical drive versus the VSS tone ring. Since the speedo drive is sandwiched between the output bearing (not installed, but you can see its journal) and the oil pump (white plastic gear), I'll need to make up that space when the tone ring is installed - I'll cut down the speedo drive and use it as a spacer.
Since there's not a lot of room for a spacing error or sloppy welding, I opened up the "window" a bit. A cutoff wheel in a 4.5" grinder and a dremel tool made this easy.
With the larger opening there's more elbow room for VSS positioning, plus I can now use a 1/2" AL plate - allowing full thread engagement of the VSS - same as the NP233stock housing's thread engagement.
I dropped the housing off at a shop that can do TIG welding. I spent about 20 minutes explaining exactly what I wanted - one rectangle of plate welded in place. They say they can weld it all up watertight. Hopefully they don't screw it up
I should have it back in a couple days.
Today's random IH usage: T-cases are better than cinder blocks for weighting down a small lawn aerator. That NP205 is the one now in the offroad truck - note the stock Ford front output brace.
From some reasonably accurate measurements at the junkyard I had determined via feeler gauge that the 'air gap' between the VSS and the tone wheel to be around .028.
With that in mind I mocked up the modified NP208 output housing to the NP208. The output housing is rotated upside down in the pics - that was for easy right-side-up viewing and measurements. The vss will point almost straight down when finally installed. Note the housing is loosely installed in some pics and bolted on in others.
Here is the VSS standing "in place" on the tone ring with a .025 feeler gauge in between to "set" the air gap close to stock.
A 1/4" AL plate would fill the 'window' nicely and leave the sensor positioned well, but it would be a little thin for the sensor's threads. The VSS threads are 3/4" x 16tpi so I would only get 4 threads engagement: Probably OK since this is not a high stress situation.
Here's a reminder of the mechanical drive versus the VSS tone ring. Since the speedo drive is sandwiched between the output bearing (not installed, but you can see its journal) and the oil pump (white plastic gear), I'll need to make up that space when the tone ring is installed - I'll cut down the speedo drive and use it as a spacer.
Since there's not a lot of room for a spacing error or sloppy welding, I opened up the "window" a bit. A cutoff wheel in a 4.5" grinder and a dremel tool made this easy.
With the larger opening there's more elbow room for VSS positioning, plus I can now use a 1/2" AL plate - allowing full thread engagement of the VSS - same as the NP233stock housing's thread engagement.
I dropped the housing off at a shop that can do TIG welding. I spent about 20 minutes explaining exactly what I wanted - one rectangle of plate welded in place. They say they can weld it all up watertight. Hopefully they don't screw it up
I should have it back in a couple days.Today's random IH usage: T-cases are better than cinder blocks for weighting down a small lawn aerator. That NP205 is the one now in the offroad truck - note the stock Ford front output brace.
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Continued Deconstruction
Today's main activity was the removal of Red Power's driver's side quarterpanel. It took quite a while, but the result was success. I used a spot weld cutting tool that resembles a mini hole saw. It takes some getting used to and a whole lot of patience. However the qpanel and end cap are removed in such a fashion that they can be reused - a worthwhile goal that took all day to achieve.
To facilitate access to the bed rail, I removed all the roof fasteners at the driver's side and the windshield, then jacked up the top a few inches. An empty carb cleaner can maintains the working room to hit the bed rail welds. I'll bolt the top back in place before putting in the floors - the A-pillar sagged quite a bit when the roof was freed.
You're supposed to only drill through the first panel, leaving the underlying panel intact. That happened most of the time, but I did go right through both panels a couple times. This will just make it a little bit more tedious to get the panel welded back in place later. The row of spot welds across the bed rail seemed unending - there's something like 30 of the rotten little buggers!. Even the wheel well wasn't that bad.
The end cap area was a comparative breeze with only a few welds to cut.
Also, the t-case output housing has been retrieved from the welding shop. They did a pretty good job: The plate is very close to orthogonal with the output shaft. We'll see if it actually seals "watertight" against the ATF used in this t-case. Clearly the original mechanical speedo sender will not work again here - darn.
It also remains to be seen if I can successfully drill (11/16" hole) and then tap (3/4" threads) straight enough for the VSS to not only locate accurately, but seal correctly. Yes - one of life's many unanswered questions.
Other unphotographed joy includes some small progress on goldbox-to-durspark conversion activities and the installation of a powerwashed, wirebrushed, and painted steering box.
Today's main activity was the removal of Red Power's driver's side quarterpanel. It took quite a while, but the result was success. I used a spot weld cutting tool that resembles a mini hole saw. It takes some getting used to and a whole lot of patience. However the qpanel and end cap are removed in such a fashion that they can be reused - a worthwhile goal that took all day to achieve.
To facilitate access to the bed rail, I removed all the roof fasteners at the driver's side and the windshield, then jacked up the top a few inches. An empty carb cleaner can maintains the working room to hit the bed rail welds. I'll bolt the top back in place before putting in the floors - the A-pillar sagged quite a bit when the roof was freed.
You're supposed to only drill through the first panel, leaving the underlying panel intact. That happened most of the time, but I did go right through both panels a couple times. This will just make it a little bit more tedious to get the panel welded back in place later. The row of spot welds across the bed rail seemed unending - there's something like 30 of the rotten little buggers!. Even the wheel well wasn't that bad.
The end cap area was a comparative breeze with only a few welds to cut.
Also, the t-case output housing has been retrieved from the welding shop. They did a pretty good job: The plate is very close to orthogonal with the output shaft. We'll see if it actually seals "watertight" against the ATF used in this t-case. Clearly the original mechanical speedo sender will not work again here - darn.
It also remains to be seen if I can successfully drill (11/16" hole) and then tap (3/4" threads) straight enough for the VSS to not only locate accurately, but seal correctly. Yes - one of life's many unanswered questions.
Other unphotographed joy includes some small progress on goldbox-to-durspark conversion activities and the installation of a powerwashed, wirebrushed, and painted steering box.
J.J.
Lives in an IH Dealership
Nice work Toby. Nobody can ever say that you don't have skillzzzz.
Who is your welding shop that did the "waterproof" seal?
JJ
Who is your welding shop that did the "waterproof" seal?
JJ
IH1300
Farmall Cub
Toby,
Love the jack and the 4x4 to raise the top, brilliant!!!
Love the jack and the 4x4 to raise the top, brilliant!!!
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
After driopping the roof back in place, I fired up my trusty $10 angle grinder and cut out the driver's midmount.
I didn't want to remove the entire mount as the remainder of the existing metal is good. I then cut up the new midmount to make the patch panel. I even tgransferred the stock bolt-spacer-stiffener thingie. It is now tacked in place. My welder is now broken. Maybe the strain was too much for the silly little thing. Sigh.
I didn't want to remove the entire mount as the remainder of the existing metal is good. I then cut up the new midmount to make the patch panel. I even tgransferred the stock bolt-spacer-stiffener thingie. It is now tacked in place. My welder is now broken. Maybe the strain was too much for the silly little thing. Sigh.
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Welding at Random..Sure It'll Fit!
I managed to coerce my "more-welding-skilled-than-I" friend to drop by today with his MIG setup.
Step 1: Finish welding in the mid-mount. Still need to grind the front welds down relatively smooth before installing the floors.
Step 2: Weld outer rockers to inner rockers. I used the $40 Harbor Freight sheet metal flange/punch tool to punch out a series of small holes to use for spot welds. Worked great! Not too sure about the flange function, though. I'll test it more later.
Step 3: While the rocker cooled, we installed the full-flanged front body mount (upper part). This piece was a bear to get in - lots of clamps and cursing. Probably should have used the punch tool on the flanges before getting it all clamped in because there was no way we were taking it back out just to punch some holes - so we welded it in at the seams instead. Clamp, curse, tack-weld, clamp, scream, clamp, tack-weld, etc.
Step 4: This was followed by the rocker panels, except for the inner part of the front waited to go with Step 5.
Step 5: Fiddle with the kick panel to get the door seam set 'correctly' and finsh welding the rockers, then finish welding the kick panel. Forgot to use the punch tool on the flanges, again!
Step 6: Install the front body mount (lower part). Not a good picture available for this part.
Step 7: Floor braces. I used some small channel I picked up as scrap. Probably 3/32" with decent length flanges for strength. I located these in line with the seat mount and seatbelt mount bolt holes - going against the grain for this project and thinking ahead a little bit here. Four of these floor braces - should hold up OK.
Step 8: Finish up the front of the kick panel patch, add a small repair panel to the upper kick panel seam, and reattach the a-pillar-to-rocker brace.
Still need to get the flanges on the outside of the front floors tacked together, plus trim the inner rocker to length and shape, front and back.
At some point in there we also threw the door on and decided: "That looks like it's all aligned - I hope". We'll see about that later <ominous>.
Need to do some cleanup grinder and wire wheel work, then spray a bunch of etching primer everywhere, followed by a little paint in strategic areas. The underside of the body will get a spray bedliner type product so paint is only needed where the liner won't reach. Then I'll get the floors in, beat the doglegs into place, and finally weld. Oh yeah, I probably ought to drill a hole for the front body mount bolt.
Also did some more on the Duraspark (5x Holley gold box) [for FI] and Mopar (2x Holley points, 2x Mallory Unilite) [for non-FI] distributor conversions - it takes a while to get all the fiddly bits sorted, the housings cleaned, the pickups tested, etc. The only bummer I see with these is that replacing a bad Duraspark module requires removing the reluctor - potentially making it a pain to get the phasing right again. Probably should have gone all Mopar instead. Getting close to done with these, finally.
I managed to coerce my "more-welding-skilled-than-I" friend to drop by today with his MIG setup.
Step 1: Finish welding in the mid-mount. Still need to grind the front welds down relatively smooth before installing the floors.
Step 2: Weld outer rockers to inner rockers. I used the $40 Harbor Freight sheet metal flange/punch tool to punch out a series of small holes to use for spot welds. Worked great! Not too sure about the flange function, though. I'll test it more later.
Step 3: While the rocker cooled, we installed the full-flanged front body mount (upper part). This piece was a bear to get in - lots of clamps and cursing. Probably should have used the punch tool on the flanges before getting it all clamped in because there was no way we were taking it back out just to punch some holes - so we welded it in at the seams instead. Clamp, curse, tack-weld, clamp, scream, clamp, tack-weld, etc.
Step 4: This was followed by the rocker panels, except for the inner part of the front waited to go with Step 5.
Step 5: Fiddle with the kick panel to get the door seam set 'correctly' and finsh welding the rockers, then finish welding the kick panel. Forgot to use the punch tool on the flanges, again!
Step 6: Install the front body mount (lower part). Not a good picture available for this part.
Step 7: Floor braces. I used some small channel I picked up as scrap. Probably 3/32" with decent length flanges for strength. I located these in line with the seat mount and seatbelt mount bolt holes - going against the grain for this project and thinking ahead a little bit here. Four of these floor braces - should hold up OK.
Step 8: Finish up the front of the kick panel patch, add a small repair panel to the upper kick panel seam, and reattach the a-pillar-to-rocker brace.
Still need to get the flanges on the outside of the front floors tacked together, plus trim the inner rocker to length and shape, front and back.
At some point in there we also threw the door on and decided: "That looks like it's all aligned - I hope". We'll see about that later <ominous>.
Need to do some cleanup grinder and wire wheel work, then spray a bunch of etching primer everywhere, followed by a little paint in strategic areas. The underside of the body will get a spray bedliner type product so paint is only needed where the liner won't reach. Then I'll get the floors in, beat the doglegs into place, and finally weld. Oh yeah, I probably ought to drill a hole for the front body mount bolt.
Also did some more on the Duraspark (5x Holley gold box) [for FI] and Mopar (2x Holley points, 2x Mallory Unilite) [for non-FI] distributor conversions - it takes a while to get all the fiddly bits sorted, the housings cleaned, the pickups tested, etc. The only bummer I see with these is that replacing a bad Duraspark module requires removing the reluctor - potentially making it a pain to get the phasing right again. Probably should have gone all Mopar instead. Getting close to done with these, finally.
WOW! I know it wasn't your intentions when you did it, but this last post is the absolute BEST pictorial walk through of body mount, rocker, and floor replacement on a Scout II that I've ever seen. It's plenty clear enough that a newbie can look at it and see exactly what he's going to have to do to get his rockers, body mounts, or floors in....maybe you can save the pics to the server here on a separate thread, and it can be added to the FAQ or knowledge base? I've done this stuff and I still was amazed at the detail you showed, with all the other neat stuff you've done in the previous posts in this build it was hard to top that, you did.
Oh, and I wouldn't worry too much about the Duraspark setup; you're talking about the pickup coil, and they very seldom go bad, especially if you can get a good used factory one or good NOS made in USA Blue Streak or Echlin one. That is one of the more trouble free parts on the conversion, Ford built those right. The module, whichever one you decide to use, is mounted externally, and those do crap out.
Oh, and I wouldn't worry too much about the Duraspark setup; you're talking about the pickup coil, and they very seldom go bad, especially if you can get a good used factory one or good NOS made in USA Blue Streak or Echlin one. That is one of the more trouble free parts on the conversion, Ford built those right. The module, whichever one you decide to use, is mounted externally, and those do crap out.
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Heat Sink (the Bismark)
Dennis,
Thanks for your kind words. In my mind the only real difference in this thread is that the pictures are very large [sucks to be anyone with slow internet]. Personally I can't see jack **** in most of the pictures people post - I usually have to try zooming in and hope to still be able to see anything. I post large size, zoomable while maintaining detail photos on purpose. I wish more folks would, too. I prefer 'screamingly obvious'.
There are some issues with the work done on the driver's side - perhaps enough to require some cutting and re-welding but I might get lucky and squeek by. Hopefully these errors can be eliminated or at least minimized on the passenger side. I'll try to take better shots when I do the passenger's side; and describe the problems from the driver's side.
You're correct. I meant the Duraspark pickup, not the module. I bought several "Atlas" brand pickups and can't get a peep out of them with an ad hoc test setup using a new (tested good) HEI module and several JY coils. My luck absolutely insists that the pickup and module both fried because I didn't use a new coil, too. All parts undoubtedly will work in anyone else's rig, forever. Try to save a buck and get stabbed in the back, again. Sigh.
Today's project was to make a heat sink for the HEI modules. As usual, ignore the mismatched fasteners for now. Still need to add a dedicated stud(s) for grounds. The wiring harness/loom will go inboard of the heat sink, probably attched to it - that should make it nice and tidy (I hope).
I figured that a large, thick aluminum plate should suffice. Since the plate was large, I decided to mount a spare module, the MAP sensor, a spare MAP sensor, the knock doodad, and a spare knock doodad. No, I don't know why the MAP sensors have different color connectors, I thought all MAP sensors (from stock vehicles) were the same [1 BAR]. I think there are several versions of the knock doodad, each 'tuned' for a specific engine. I will get some extra electrical plugs on my next JY trip so I can keep the spares plugged up and clean. If something breaks - just move the wiring to the spare part. I figured if I'm going to carry spares, then they ought to be convenient.
I originally thought to use two of the automatic transmission throttle/kickdown brackets to mount the heat sink. Just cut off all the crap and leave the one vertical face to bolt to...
Fortunately, Scott Services had a couple spare IH engine lift brackets. Usually they are mounted on opposite sides of the intake for use with a cherry picker. I believe they were used on the assembly line and should have been removed during assembly. I haven't seen these on a truck in quite a while. The are low profile and work nicely for my purpose. I will remove the stock throttle/kickdown bracket as the throttle cable will attach to the tbi adapter plate.
I found two different coil brackets, but I think they're the same coil. Both came from TBI vehicles, but I think the taller one
Dennis,
Thanks for your kind words. In my mind the only real difference in this thread is that the pictures are very large [sucks to be anyone with slow internet]. Personally I can't see jack **** in most of the pictures people post - I usually have to try zooming in and hope to still be able to see anything. I post large size, zoomable while maintaining detail photos on purpose. I wish more folks would, too. I prefer 'screamingly obvious'.
There are some issues with the work done on the driver's side - perhaps enough to require some cutting and re-welding but I might get lucky and squeek by. Hopefully these errors can be eliminated or at least minimized on the passenger side. I'll try to take better shots when I do the passenger's side; and describe the problems from the driver's side.
You're correct. I meant the Duraspark pickup, not the module. I bought several "Atlas" brand pickups and can't get a peep out of them with an ad hoc test setup using a new (tested good) HEI module and several JY coils. My luck absolutely insists that the pickup and module both fried because I didn't use a new coil, too. All parts undoubtedly will work in anyone else's rig, forever. Try to save a buck and get stabbed in the back, again. Sigh.
Today's project was to make a heat sink for the HEI modules. As usual, ignore the mismatched fasteners for now. Still need to add a dedicated stud(s) for grounds. The wiring harness/loom will go inboard of the heat sink, probably attched to it - that should make it nice and tidy (I hope).
I figured that a large, thick aluminum plate should suffice. Since the plate was large, I decided to mount a spare module, the MAP sensor, a spare MAP sensor, the knock doodad, and a spare knock doodad. No, I don't know why the MAP sensors have different color connectors, I thought all MAP sensors (from stock vehicles) were the same [1 BAR]. I think there are several versions of the knock doodad, each 'tuned' for a specific engine. I will get some extra electrical plugs on my next JY trip so I can keep the spares plugged up and clean. If something breaks - just move the wiring to the spare part. I figured if I'm going to carry spares, then they ought to be convenient.
I originally thought to use two of the automatic transmission throttle/kickdown brackets to mount the heat sink. Just cut off all the crap and leave the one vertical face to bolt to...
Fortunately, Scott Services had a couple spare IH engine lift brackets. Usually they are mounted on opposite sides of the intake for use with a cherry picker. I believe they were used on the assembly line and should have been removed during assembly. I haven't seen these on a truck in quite a while. The are low profile and work nicely for my purpose. I will remove the stock throttle/kickdown bracket as the throttle cable will attach to the tbi adapter plate.
I found two different coil brackets, but I think they're the same coil. Both came from TBI vehicles, but I think the taller one
is from a truck and the shorter
from a car.
Here's the shorter coil mounted to the intake.
Here's the shorter coil mounted to the intake.
jhnyct
High Wheeler
You definitely have trail spares covered. I have often wondered about different tuned knock doodads. I get a lot of false knock and I hope there is another doodad that is better tuned for my SV.
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Tap Dance Through The Tulips
Today I tapped the NP208 output housing for the GM VSS sensor. Drill size was 11/16" and the tap was 3/4" fine straight thread, not pipe thread which is tapered. Sorry the threads don't show up well in the picture - maybe it's the flash?
Here's a reminder of what the VSS tip looks like. Also note the sensor seals with an o-ring.
Here's the sensor fully installed into the housing:
Finally, here's a mockup of the sensor with the reluctor ring in place. The feeler gauge is set to .025", which is what I measured the stock sensor gap to approximately be in another NP series t-case. The feeler gauge is standing straight up, sandwiched between the VSS and the reluctor ring.
Note that the reluctor is slightly offset to the right - away from the VSS [look at\in the center of the reluctor ring compared to the bearing it sits on]. This means the VSS is too deep into the housing. This is good - I can shim the sensor away from the reluctor and get the sensor gap set properly once I get this all installed to the t-case. Shims or maybe just a fatter o-ring should do the trick.
I still need to clean the old RTV off the t-case and the housing, plug the old mechanical speedo drive hole, and get a new seal for the yoke. I think I'll use some gas tank repair epoxy goop on the inside seams where the aluminum block was welded into the housing - just to help avoid any possible pinholes or leaks.
Of course I won't be able to test the VSS until I get the truck up and running. Maybe this was all an excercise in futility...
In other tapping news, I also tapped a pile of Duraspark reluctors for set screws. I know that many folks now use locktite and a couple small stakes to hold the reluctor indexed on the distributor shaft. I believe I would also have used this method if I had ground the distributor shafts down to the proper diameter on a lathe instead of by hand on a bench grinder. Freehand grinding left the reluctor fit on several of the shafts a bit uneven and slightly loose - not wobbly loose, but enough that the positive location provided by a set screw seems safer than locktite and staking. Plus, removing the reluctor so as to be able to remove/replace the pickup is easier.
The set screws I used are 18-8 stainless steel (only mildy magnetic) #4-40 x 1/4" long. The reluctor is only .2 inches thick, so these will stick out slightly. I seriously doubt they will give false readings to the pickup. You can see in the picture that they hardly stick out of the reluctor at all. I also have some #4-40 x 3/16" set screws if the longer ones do somehow cause a problem. I think a #6-32 screw would have fit OK instead - they're slightly cheaper; something like $0.18 each versus $0.22 each - wheeeee!.
I looked up the correct drill size on the internet [#43 bit, .089"] and drilled slowly using liberal lubricant [Gibbs]. I tapped the holes even slower and they came out fine. I didn't get them all perpendicular to the centerline, but they all will do the job. They only need to provide a little tension against the distributor shaft to keep the reluctor in place. I did not grind a flat spot on the shafts for the set screw to press against. If needed I can do this later when I phase the reluctors. I'll probably use a drop of blue [not red] locktite on the set screw threads when I do the phasing.
I also managed to hack out the passenger floor, most of the rust affected area of the kick panel, and most of the rockers. I also made some progress on removing the passenger quarter panel. Once that's off I'll remove the rest of the rockers and the inner quarter panel extension.
Apparently my A/C leaked on the floor a little bit:
And apparently my rockers had a little dirt in them:
You need to be careful when cutting out the floors at the rear step as the midmount extends a little under the floor panel to provide support - a small 'ledge' if you will. The floors are spot welded to the midmount on both the vertical and horizontal faces here. So cut the floors out an inch or two forward of the step first, then work on the last bit separately. There are spot welds in the step face [see photo] and the floor about 1/2" in front of the step. Also note the vertical edges of the floor panel sit behind the dog-leg filler panel [by the door] and the center floor panel - see the areas in the green ovals. You'll need to drill out the spot welds there to free the floor panel from the step.
Today I tapped the NP208 output housing for the GM VSS sensor. Drill size was 11/16" and the tap was 3/4" fine straight thread, not pipe thread which is tapered. Sorry the threads don't show up well in the picture - maybe it's the flash?
Here's a reminder of what the VSS tip looks like. Also note the sensor seals with an o-ring.
Here's the sensor fully installed into the housing:
Finally, here's a mockup of the sensor with the reluctor ring in place. The feeler gauge is set to .025", which is what I measured the stock sensor gap to approximately be in another NP series t-case. The feeler gauge is standing straight up, sandwiched between the VSS and the reluctor ring.
Note that the reluctor is slightly offset to the right - away from the VSS [look at\in the center of the reluctor ring compared to the bearing it sits on]. This means the VSS is too deep into the housing. This is good - I can shim the sensor away from the reluctor and get the sensor gap set properly once I get this all installed to the t-case. Shims or maybe just a fatter o-ring should do the trick.
I still need to clean the old RTV off the t-case and the housing, plug the old mechanical speedo drive hole, and get a new seal for the yoke. I think I'll use some gas tank repair epoxy goop on the inside seams where the aluminum block was welded into the housing - just to help avoid any possible pinholes or leaks.
Of course I won't be able to test the VSS until I get the truck up and running. Maybe this was all an excercise in futility...
In other tapping news, I also tapped a pile of Duraspark reluctors for set screws. I know that many folks now use locktite and a couple small stakes to hold the reluctor indexed on the distributor shaft. I believe I would also have used this method if I had ground the distributor shafts down to the proper diameter on a lathe instead of by hand on a bench grinder. Freehand grinding left the reluctor fit on several of the shafts a bit uneven and slightly loose - not wobbly loose, but enough that the positive location provided by a set screw seems safer than locktite and staking. Plus, removing the reluctor so as to be able to remove/replace the pickup is easier.
The set screws I used are 18-8 stainless steel (only mildy magnetic) #4-40 x 1/4" long. The reluctor is only .2 inches thick, so these will stick out slightly. I seriously doubt they will give false readings to the pickup. You can see in the picture that they hardly stick out of the reluctor at all. I also have some #4-40 x 3/16" set screws if the longer ones do somehow cause a problem. I think a #6-32 screw would have fit OK instead - they're slightly cheaper; something like $0.18 each versus $0.22 each - wheeeee!.
I looked up the correct drill size on the internet [#43 bit, .089"] and drilled slowly using liberal lubricant [Gibbs]. I tapped the holes even slower and they came out fine. I didn't get them all perpendicular to the centerline, but they all will do the job. They only need to provide a little tension against the distributor shaft to keep the reluctor in place. I did not grind a flat spot on the shafts for the set screw to press against. If needed I can do this later when I phase the reluctors. I'll probably use a drop of blue [not red] locktite on the set screw threads when I do the phasing.
I also managed to hack out the passenger floor, most of the rust affected area of the kick panel, and most of the rockers. I also made some progress on removing the passenger quarter panel. Once that's off I'll remove the rest of the rockers and the inner quarter panel extension.
Apparently my A/C leaked on the floor a little bit:
And apparently my rockers had a little dirt in them:
You need to be careful when cutting out the floors at the rear step as the midmount extends a little under the floor panel to provide support - a small 'ledge' if you will. The floors are spot welded to the midmount on both the vertical and horizontal faces here. So cut the floors out an inch or two forward of the step first, then work on the last bit separately. There are spot welds in the step face [see photo] and the floor about 1/2" in front of the step. Also note the vertical edges of the floor panel sit behind the dog-leg filler panel [by the door] and the center floor panel - see the areas in the green ovals. You'll need to drill out the spot welds there to free the floor panel from the step.
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
More Friggin' Spot Welds
Today I finished removing the passenger quarterpanel. There were only 28 spot welds along the top, plus another 30+ elsewhere. What a pain in the butt! I used the same floor-jack-and-4x4 method of temporarily holding up the traveler top as used for the driver's side quarterpanel removal. Unfortunately, this side's quarterpanel panel [not pictured] will need some repairs, or perhaps replacement - we'll see about that later. For now I'm concentrating on the front floors and then cargo deck repairs - then tub clean/paint.
Both inner quarters had a decently done job of rustproofing with a sprayed on waxlike substance - already scraped off (mostly) in the above photos. Too bad they didn't get full coverage because it's all coming off for a couple coats of 2-part epoxy primer and then some raptor liner. I expect to use a LOT of seam sealer as well. I scraped some of the wax off and then cleaned a bit of the inner bedside with a wire wheel to see how much effort it would take - not too much as it turns out. The wheel wells, especially around the edges and seams with the floor pans will need some phosporic acid rust converter, or in some cases outright patch panels.
So, the passenger floor/rockers/supports/kickpanel are all now gone with only a small bit or excess material left to remove - That will have to wait for tomorrow becuase it got dark outside, and cold, and scary. I also spent some time grinding down all the little nubs left by the spot weld cutter.
Of passing interest, there are two front cab mounts available from the sheet metal dudes who supply Light Line. One is a fully-flanged piece that replaces the entire toeboard, while the other is meant to only patch the toeboard and requires good metal around the periphery of the extant toeboard for attachment points.
Here's the partial piece:
Here's the full piece, front and back showing the flanges:
Here they are side by side: Of course, the cab mount portion is the same.
Also of note, the "inner rear quarterpanel gusset" from the factory is a two-piece affair for Terras and Travelers, whereas the replacement panel is a one-piece affair. If your stock 'extension' panel is bad and the smaller piece is good, then you'll need to either (1) fabricate your own extension panel, (2) cut down the full replacement panel, or (3) remove both stock panels and use the full replacement panel.
Today I finished removing the passenger quarterpanel. There were only 28 spot welds along the top, plus another 30+ elsewhere. What a pain in the butt! I used the same floor-jack-and-4x4 method of temporarily holding up the traveler top as used for the driver's side quarterpanel removal. Unfortunately, this side's quarterpanel panel [not pictured] will need some repairs, or perhaps replacement - we'll see about that later. For now I'm concentrating on the front floors and then cargo deck repairs - then tub clean/paint.
Both inner quarters had a decently done job of rustproofing with a sprayed on waxlike substance - already scraped off (mostly) in the above photos. Too bad they didn't get full coverage because it's all coming off for a couple coats of 2-part epoxy primer and then some raptor liner. I expect to use a LOT of seam sealer as well. I scraped some of the wax off and then cleaned a bit of the inner bedside with a wire wheel to see how much effort it would take - not too much as it turns out. The wheel wells, especially around the edges and seams with the floor pans will need some phosporic acid rust converter, or in some cases outright patch panels.
So, the passenger floor/rockers/supports/kickpanel are all now gone with only a small bit or excess material left to remove - That will have to wait for tomorrow becuase it got dark outside, and cold, and scary. I also spent some time grinding down all the little nubs left by the spot weld cutter.
Of passing interest, there are two front cab mounts available from the sheet metal dudes who supply Light Line. One is a fully-flanged piece that replaces the entire toeboard, while the other is meant to only patch the toeboard and requires good metal around the periphery of the extant toeboard for attachment points.
Here's the partial piece:
Here's the full piece, front and back showing the flanges:
Here they are side by side: Of course, the cab mount portion is the same.
Also of note, the "inner rear quarterpanel gusset" from the factory is a two-piece affair for Terras and Travelers, whereas the replacement panel is a one-piece affair. If your stock 'extension' panel is bad and the smaller piece is good, then you'll need to either (1) fabricate your own extension panel, (2) cut down the full replacement panel, or (3) remove both stock panels and use the full replacement panel.
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Ewwww! A metric part. Gaak!
Having taken only a day to recover from JJ's wedding, today I managed some progress on Red Power's cooling system.
The plan is to build a custom radiator shroud for a two-speed electric fan. I'll show this later...probably a short time after it actually gets done.
Some ECMs and PCMs can control the engine fan, The ECM I'm going to use does not provide fan control. Fortunately the fan I'm going to use does have its own stand-alone fan controller. It just needs a thermostat switch to know when to turn each speed on and off.
This could be accomplished with two independent switches or one 'dual element' type of switch. The switch I found has three wires: One wire goes to ground. The second wire will connect to the ground wire inside the switch (providing a ground signal to the fan controller's low-speed fan) at a range of 190 - 209 degrees. The third wire will connect to the ground wire inside the switch (providing a ground signal to the fan controller's high-speed fan) at a range of 209 - 226 degrees.
When I get to the wiring phase of the project, I'll add the ability to override OFF, and to override ON. Plus, I'll also tie in a transmission temp sensor to the fan controller to help cool the tranmsision if it gets hot faster than the engine - say when pulling a hill, etc. I'll also tie in the A/C power wire to run the fan when the A/C is on.
I seriously considered adding the temp sensor to the radiator, but ultimately chose not to. I don't want to have to add a threaded fitting to each radiator I might eventually use in the truck. I also could have welded a fitting into a short length of muffler pipe and then used that pipe in-line in one of the radiator hoses; but that would look like ***. Instead I chose to add the sensor to the thermostat housing.
There are couple different thermostat housings available for the SV engine family. For the purpose at hand the biggest difference is the location of the tapped sensor boss on the side of the thermostat housing. Some face forward and some face backward (to the driver's side really) when mounted on a V8.
I have both styles available to me here and I chose to use the forward facing style. The rearward facing style looked to not have enough material on its boss for me to drill and tap the size hole I need for the temp sensor I chose.
The Audi sensor has a M22x1.5 thread. 22mm is about 7/8". I could not find a 1/2" pipe thread to M22x1.5 adapter - no big surprise there. So, I bought a M22x1.5 tap on ebay. Drilling out the 1/2" pipe threads to 13/16" was simple and tapping the cast iron with that large a tap was not difficult. This sensor uses common 1/4" spade terminals - and- has a nice weatherproof boot over the plug; making for a nice looking installation.
Here's the bare housing: Note the casting flash/ridge that had to be gound flat so the new sensor could seal properly.
Here's the tapping operation:
Here's the sensor installed: Note the sensor uses straight threads, not tapered threads. I will use a sealing washer (crush washer) like the one shown, or perhaps an o-ring. M22 is a common oil pan drain plug size.
Having taken only a day to recover from JJ's wedding, today I managed some progress on Red Power's cooling system.
The plan is to build a custom radiator shroud for a two-speed electric fan. I'll show this later...probably a short time after it actually gets done.
Some ECMs and PCMs can control the engine fan, The ECM I'm going to use does not provide fan control. Fortunately the fan I'm going to use does have its own stand-alone fan controller. It just needs a thermostat switch to know when to turn each speed on and off.
This could be accomplished with two independent switches or one 'dual element' type of switch. The switch I found has three wires: One wire goes to ground. The second wire will connect to the ground wire inside the switch (providing a ground signal to the fan controller's low-speed fan) at a range of 190 - 209 degrees. The third wire will connect to the ground wire inside the switch (providing a ground signal to the fan controller's high-speed fan) at a range of 209 - 226 degrees.
When I get to the wiring phase of the project, I'll add the ability to override OFF, and to override ON. Plus, I'll also tie in a transmission temp sensor to the fan controller to help cool the tranmsision if it gets hot faster than the engine - say when pulling a hill, etc. I'll also tie in the A/C power wire to run the fan when the A/C is on.
I seriously considered adding the temp sensor to the radiator, but ultimately chose not to. I don't want to have to add a threaded fitting to each radiator I might eventually use in the truck. I also could have welded a fitting into a short length of muffler pipe and then used that pipe in-line in one of the radiator hoses; but that would look like ***. Instead I chose to add the sensor to the thermostat housing.
There are couple different thermostat housings available for the SV engine family. For the purpose at hand the biggest difference is the location of the tapped sensor boss on the side of the thermostat housing. Some face forward and some face backward (to the driver's side really) when mounted on a V8.
I have both styles available to me here and I chose to use the forward facing style. The rearward facing style looked to not have enough material on its boss for me to drill and tap the size hole I need for the temp sensor I chose.
The Audi sensor has a M22x1.5 thread. 22mm is about 7/8". I could not find a 1/2" pipe thread to M22x1.5 adapter - no big surprise there. So, I bought a M22x1.5 tap on ebay. Drilling out the 1/2" pipe threads to 13/16" was simple and tapping the cast iron with that large a tap was not difficult. This sensor uses common 1/4" spade terminals - and- has a nice weatherproof boot over the plug; making for a nice looking installation.
Here's the bare housing: Note the casting flash/ridge that had to be gound flat so the new sensor could seal properly.
Here's the tapping operation:
Here's the sensor installed: Note the sensor uses straight threads, not tapered threads. I will use a sealing washer (crush washer) like the one shown, or perhaps an o-ring. M22 is a common oil pan drain plug size.
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
T-case Progress
The NP 208 transfer case project still lacked resolution to the VSS conundrum, and unresolved conundrums being the antithesis of harmonious torque splitting, the heretofore proposed solution has now been implemented.
The stock mechanical speedo drive gear is shown in blue at the top of the picture. The output shaft is fully splined in this area as shown in the second part of the picture.
I cut down a stock drive gear to act as a spacer (part three), leaving just enough room for the VSS tone ring gear (part four).
The output housing received a coat of epoxy around the weld-in area of the VSS sensor block. This is an extra measure just in case the aluminum weld job didn't seal everything fully.
I cut the plastic drive gear with an angle grinder: <Dangerous>
It was a sloppy cut:
Not having a belt sander type apparatus, I dressed the gear with an angle grinder and made it mostly cylindrical: < Very Dangerous>
Leaving a usable spacer (I got the OAL short by .01" - probably OK since the output bearing is located by the housing)
And, ruining the cutoff wheel in the process (good thing they're cheap):
I used a factory Speedo output housing with a cap to seal the speedo output hole. I gave it a nose job so it wouldn't interfere with the VSS.
The VSS gap was set to .028 by feeler gauge:
The VSS required a copper shim AND an-o-ring to correctly space the tip of the VSS from the tone ring. I could have used a thicker o-ring or a thicker washer(s), but didn't feel like hunting them down. Hopefully this won't leak - it probably will anyway.
Still to do here are:
(1) find the stock breather fitting/pipe somewhere in the shed and install
(2) install the output flange (yoke) - when the paint on it dries
(3) fill the case with ATF
(4) run wiring for the indicator light and VSS - later in the wiring phase
(5) install shifter - after the body is back on the frame
The NP 208 transfer case project still lacked resolution to the VSS conundrum, and unresolved conundrums being the antithesis of harmonious torque splitting, the heretofore proposed solution has now been implemented.
The stock mechanical speedo drive gear is shown in blue at the top of the picture. The output shaft is fully splined in this area as shown in the second part of the picture.
I cut down a stock drive gear to act as a spacer (part three), leaving just enough room for the VSS tone ring gear (part four).
The output housing received a coat of epoxy around the weld-in area of the VSS sensor block. This is an extra measure just in case the aluminum weld job didn't seal everything fully.
I cut the plastic drive gear with an angle grinder: <Dangerous>
It was a sloppy cut:
Not having a belt sander type apparatus, I dressed the gear with an angle grinder and made it mostly cylindrical: < Very Dangerous>
Leaving a usable spacer (I got the OAL short by .01" - probably OK since the output bearing is located by the housing)
And, ruining the cutoff wheel in the process (good thing they're cheap):
I used a factory Speedo output housing with a cap to seal the speedo output hole. I gave it a nose job so it wouldn't interfere with the VSS.
The VSS gap was set to .028 by feeler gauge:
The VSS required a copper shim AND an-o-ring to correctly space the tip of the VSS from the tone ring. I could have used a thicker o-ring or a thicker washer(s), but didn't feel like hunting them down. Hopefully this won't leak - it probably will anyway.
Still to do here are:
(1) find the stock breather fitting/pipe somewhere in the shed and install
(2) install the output flange (yoke) - when the paint on it dries
(3) fill the case with ATF
(4) run wiring for the indicator light and VSS - later in the wiring phase
(5) install shifter - after the body is back on the frame
Monkeyplasm
Farmall Cub
Pulley My Finger!
There are a number of pulleys and pulley configurations available for IH SV engines. The pulleys I refer to are located at the water pump and the crankshaft. I'm not worried about the ALT, P/S, A/C, and Smog Pump pulleys for now.
Water Pumps
There are two main water pumps. Fortunately they both use the same pulleys mounted in the same position and configuration. As far as pulleys go, the two pumps are interchangeable. The pulleys bolt to the large (4.25" diameter) bolt pattern at the base of the water pump tower. There may be other water pumps used on SV engines, but I will not address those as I'm primarily interested in light line applications.
Crankshaft Hub/Harmonic Balancer
There are two main styles of crank hub. One uses the exact same pulleys as the water pumps, mounted on the same (4.25" diameter) bolt pattern. The other has cast iron pulleys (a set of three, all in one part) vulcanized to the hub, plus a provision to add an additional outboard pulley via 6 bolts on the hub face. There may be other hubs/balancers used on SV engines, but I will not address those as I'm primarily interested in light line applications.
Pulleys
Despite the variations found in pulley assignment, there is basically one pulley 'stack' used on SV water pumps and non-integrated balancer hubs. There is a basic set of three pulleys that nest into one another. Depending on accessories installed, one may encounter only one or two pulleys out of the set of three pulleys. One may find more or fewer pulleys on the crank hub compared to the water pump. One may find an additional fourth pulley mounted inboard of the set of three pulleys (or perhaps a spacer when the extra pulley is found on only one of the water pump or crank hub.
It's actually a fairly versatile setup.
Of note: Some earlier light line trucks (some 1960's models) used a larger diameter pully than those typically found in Scout II's and D-seried trucks. Usually mounted on the crank hub, they also might be encountered on the water pump. The large diameter pulleys have the same mounting bolt pattern as the smaller pulleys. The larger pulleys are not common.
There are many variations in pulley assignment found between all the light line trucks, let alone medium duty trucks or stationary equipment. Has A/C, or not. A/C is factory installed. A/C is dealer installed. Has Alternator. Has Generator. Has Power Steering. Has Smog Pump. Has Air Compressor. Plus more. And, all the many permutations of them.
I won't go into pulley assignments - instead, see the last picture in this post.
All that crap goes out the window (for me, at least) when I convert to a (dual) serpentine belt setup. One belt for crank, water pump, A/C, and alternator. The other for crank, water pump, smog or alternator2/welder, and P/S.
Something like this for a starting point:
And, since I don't have a smog pump to play with, but I know people will ask about supporting a smog pump, too: Here the smog pulley installed on the water pump (and a spacer on the crank hub). Not ideal, but *maybe* I can get the smog pump lined up with the P/S pump after I get my hands on one.
Down the road a little bit I'm contemplating offering either a serpentine kit, or maybe the difficult parts. For now, I don't have mine done, and I can't test it anyway until I get my junk back on the street.
There are a number of pulleys and pulley configurations available for IH SV engines. The pulleys I refer to are located at the water pump and the crankshaft. I'm not worried about the ALT, P/S, A/C, and Smog Pump pulleys for now.
Water Pumps
There are two main water pumps. Fortunately they both use the same pulleys mounted in the same position and configuration. As far as pulleys go, the two pumps are interchangeable. The pulleys bolt to the large (4.25" diameter) bolt pattern at the base of the water pump tower. There may be other water pumps used on SV engines, but I will not address those as I'm primarily interested in light line applications.
Crankshaft Hub/Harmonic Balancer
There are two main styles of crank hub. One uses the exact same pulleys as the water pumps, mounted on the same (4.25" diameter) bolt pattern. The other has cast iron pulleys (a set of three, all in one part) vulcanized to the hub, plus a provision to add an additional outboard pulley via 6 bolts on the hub face. There may be other hubs/balancers used on SV engines, but I will not address those as I'm primarily interested in light line applications.
Pulleys
Despite the variations found in pulley assignment, there is basically one pulley 'stack' used on SV water pumps and non-integrated balancer hubs. There is a basic set of three pulleys that nest into one another. Depending on accessories installed, one may encounter only one or two pulleys out of the set of three pulleys. One may find more or fewer pulleys on the crank hub compared to the water pump. One may find an additional fourth pulley mounted inboard of the set of three pulleys (or perhaps a spacer when the extra pulley is found on only one of the water pump or crank hub.
It's actually a fairly versatile setup.
Of note: Some earlier light line trucks (some 1960's models) used a larger diameter pully than those typically found in Scout II's and D-seried trucks. Usually mounted on the crank hub, they also might be encountered on the water pump. The large diameter pulleys have the same mounting bolt pattern as the smaller pulleys. The larger pulleys are not common.
There are many variations in pulley assignment found between all the light line trucks, let alone medium duty trucks or stationary equipment. Has A/C, or not. A/C is factory installed. A/C is dealer installed. Has Alternator. Has Generator. Has Power Steering. Has Smog Pump. Has Air Compressor. Plus more. And, all the many permutations of them.
I won't go into pulley assignments - instead, see the last picture in this post.
All that crap goes out the window (for me, at least) when I convert to a (dual) serpentine belt setup. One belt for crank, water pump, A/C, and alternator. The other for crank, water pump, smog or alternator2/welder, and P/S.
Something like this for a starting point:
And, since I don't have a smog pump to play with, but I know people will ask about supporting a smog pump, too: Here the smog pulley installed on the water pump (and a spacer on the crank hub). Not ideal, but *maybe* I can get the smog pump lined up with the P/S pump after I get my hands on one.
Down the road a little bit I'm contemplating offering either a serpentine kit, or maybe the difficult parts. For now, I don't have mine done, and I can't test it anyway until I get my junk back on the street.
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