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Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
I think TVB needs a buildup thread.

Furthermore, as one to simultaneously both overdo and half-*** things and thereby make a gratuitous mess, I will make this a double-buildup thread, for now. Perhaps a third or fourth project truck will interject itself as time goes on.

I will present each of these subjects as they might happen to be addressed, concurrently as they may happenstance occur. Little or no effort will be made to segregate individual posts by subject, nor will any special attempt be made towards inter- or intra-subject clarity. Indifference or condescension are as likely as enthusiasm and esteem. Suggestions and comments may alternately be embraced or summarily dismissed for no discrenable reason whatsoever.

You may ask “why not make clear, individual threads for each truck and each subject?” Here you may insert your own preference of snarky reply in lieu of the obvious.

Author’s Note: These builds will by their very nature follow interminably meandering routes, replete with numerous false starts, intent reversals, and component changes. They are likely to never so much as propose incipient completion. As such, the prudent reader should forthwith abandon and ignore this thread in perpetuity.

So, anyway...

One project is a 1977 SSII, another is a 1980 Scout II Traveler, and a third may be a 1968 Scout 800.
 

Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
You have a Traveler, eh?

Yep, I've got way too much money in this traveler and it’s falling apart at the seams. So I figure, "Hey, why not throw a bunch of money at it and see if that meets my completely unreasonable expectations." After absolutely way too much deliberation and having not the slightest rational expectation of success, I begin the salubrious adventure, thus.

"Red Power" is a 1980 Scout II Traveler. This simple fact immediately gives rise to the age-old question: How may one readily distinguish Red Power from other 1980 Scout II Travelers?

Fortunately this seemingly insurmountable conundrum is summarily dispatched by simply looking at the truck itself. Persons of the standard ocular acumen will observe, as if by the serene guidance of a higher being, Red Power is adorned not only on one quarter panel but verily on BOTH quarter Panels with a jaunty "Red Power" in large, color-contrasting script.

DSCF0052-1.jpg

DSCF0053-1.jpg


Now, the author must acknowledge that upon one’s notice of Red Power’s eponymous adornment many in today’s less-than-IH-aware society will immediately and quite naturally make two basic assumptions: (1) “That guy must be godless commie scum”, and (2) naming a truck and then plastering said name conspicuously on said truck is one of the seven pillars of insipid douchebaggery.

The author mounts his defense in three parts: (1) The truck was already named when purchased and the script was already on the quarter panels, (2) the truck was purchased under not inconsiderable duress, and (3) at least it’s not ‘truck nutz’. Further, the overtly offensive and universally reviled nomenclature shall not survive impending body repairs.

Here is a list of anticipated mutilations enhancements to Red Power. Proposed timeframes for any given stage’s completion each can be summed up as an ambitious “eventually, but probably never.” Nevertheless, I will stumble forge ahead, intrepid and resolute, in various abortive, overlapping stages. Many if not all enhancements will be summarily abandoned (even if already completed) before unnecessary retooling and subsequent resurrection.

Overdrive automatic transmission (700r4)
TBI or MPFI conversion (SV-345)
Various bodywork and rust-repair
Full rewire with appropriate customizations.
Variable, intermittent wipers (on column/wheel)
Cruise control (on column/wheel)
Full floating, 8 lug disc-brake axles, SOA
Enlarged rear wheel well openings
New bumpers
Oversize fender flares
Trailer wiring and brake controller
Power windows, locks, mirrors
Rear air conditioning and storage
Aftermarket sound system
Liftgate to tailgate conversion
Other silly nonsense
 
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Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
A ‘real’ SuperScout II? BFD.

Yeah, I’m not really impressed either. That’s why it’s becoming less and less recognizable as a SSII. This was a reasonably capable offroad truck before the 727 trans got drowned and subsequently cooked on the trail.

DSCF0059.jpg


Poorly executed unnecessary mods to include:

Bed-ectomy
Partial hardtop
345 to 196
Propane fuel system
727 to nv4500
Dana 20 to np241/np205
SSII to shortened Traveler frame
One-link suspension
Full rewire with appropriate customizations.
Full floating, 8 lug disc-brake axles, SOA
ARB lockers
Suspension Seats
Hydroboost
New bumpers
“Air conditioning”
Nerf bars and Cage
Other bad ideas
 
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Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
Why not start from scratch?

Since I had a running truck that really only needed a new trans and some engine TLC, the only smart thing to do is replace just about *everything*.

A traveler 118” wheelbase frame was procured from the fine folks at Scott Services as a starting point for the largely unnecessary overhaul.

Said frame was placed on a couple fence posts laid across four 55 gallon drums for two principal reasons: (1) working on the ground sucks, and (2) I had four 55 gallon drums and two fence posts. As placed, the drums tend to collect rain water which breeds mosquitoes, a serendipitous benefit to be sure.

FrameStart1.jpg

FrameStart2.jpg


This frame requires some minor repair and cleanup, particularly where the existing reverse shackle parts were removed; not to mention the rather silly "recievers" attached under the front crossmember. You, gentle reader, may be astonished to learn that the donor traveler spent some time in Saudi Arabia and yet the frame appears to contain no sand whatsoever.

The astute observer will note the rather carefree positioning of the Straight Steer brace towards the front of the frame. Rest assured it will find a position of both more permanence and enhanced utility.
 
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Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
A 4-cylinder drivetrain is still heavy.

The assumed original 345 was traded or otherwise discarded and a moderately freshened 196 was sourced from Scott Services, purveyors of fine automotive components and accoutrements. This particular engine features a block, a head, some pistons and several valves, among other ancillary components - one of which, apparently, is NOT a water pump. It’s pretty much stock – I don’t recall doing anything special to it.

196install1.jpg

196install2.jpg

RPT engine mounts were used as the truck had previously experienced a torn stock engine mount while bouncing up a hill. Said torn mount allowed the engine to flop enough to pull off the brake booster vacuum hose. Braking performance being markedly diminished under such circumstances, a repeat episode is to be avoided; what with the whole rolling backwards down the hill thing.

The 196 is now attached to a nv4500 transmission via one of my remaining prototype nv4500 adapters and the whole shebang nestled in the bosom of the surprisingly sand-free frame. For now, the transmission simply rests on the stock transmission crossmember as set in the stock location. Clearly a custom crossmember/mount is in order. Perhaps I'll show that to you...later.

nv4500install1.jpg


Author’s Note: Jeff at IH Only North has worked with Advance Adapters to enhance my original nv4500 adapter. Whereas it began as a homely and humble chunk of aluminum and an extremely expensive custom input shaft, it is now a thing of relative thrift and perceptibly surpassing beauty; to be rivaled only by this author’s enormous ego.

Sexy!
CurrentAdapter.jpg
 
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Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
A bifurcated clutch arm?

Shrewd onlookers may have noticed something amiss in the general clutch arm area of the otherwise stock 4-speed bellhousing. There are two issues at play here:
(1) The prototype adapter plate is in the movement arc of the stock clutch arm, and
(2) I hope to employ a hydraulic clutch, requiring a suitably positioned lever arm

Here is a picture of the first issue:
Clutcharmobstruction.jpg


This was solved (over-solved, actually) by reversing the bend in the arm. Simply straightening the arm would have sufficed. I elected to retain this arm so as to preserve to option to utilize the stock mechanical clutch linkage in the future. Note the large clearance now available for the clutch arm to pass the adapter plate.

Clutcharmoversolved1.jpg


This overcorrection leads to a fitment issue against the transmission tunnel. Naturally this is not an impenetrable problem, but it is a little exasperating to have gone overboard. A little bending back to a more neutral position will clear this right up.

Clutcharmoversolved2.jpg


Of course the ‘extra’ clutch arm welded just outside the original arm is intended to be a ‘push point’ for the not-yet-pictured-because-I-haven’t-built-it-yet clutch slave cylinder. That component will sit atop the bellhousing, likely on a bracket bolted to the top left bellhousing bolts. See the attached rendering (bracket in green, slave clyinder in blue) by a truly awful artist.

ClutchSlaveCylinder1.jpg


More on this subject later, or not.
 
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oldironoffroad

High Wheeler
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
1,441
Points
38
Location
crossville,tn
Here is the obligatory " ata boy Toby" to again further boost your ego for your part of the creation of the original NV adapter. :D. When we gonna turn some wrenches on Red Power? Did you check out the link I sent you on Pirate?
 

Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
700r4 to SV, what I’m doing…but it's probably wrong

As it turns out automatic transmissions, unlike some venereal diseases, do not last forever. Red Power (that silly name persists) had a 727 that abruptly met its demise while towing a utility trailer on the interstate, through downtown where there are only tiny shoulders on the road, in the rain. No photos available, sorry.

At such a juncture, fraught with possibilities and peril alike, an intelligent path of rebuilding or replacing the 727 and thereby getting back on the road with a minimum of fuss, would be prudent. Invariably I elected to install a GM 700r4 overdrive transmission to the extant 345 IH engine.

As circumstance would have it I had in my possession one of the early (probably first run) 700r4 adapter kits. Designed by ‘Caveman’ (Jim Blackwood of Blackwood Labs) and manufactured for him by Advance Adapters, this adapter kit has undergone several revisions and additional development. It is now available from Jeff at IH Only North.

To attach a GM 700r4 to an IH SV engine one needs two adapters, sold as one adapter kit: You need a way to attach the GM bellhousing (transmission housing) to the IH engine block and you need a way to attach the GM torque converter to the IH flexplate (flywheel).

My bellhousing adapter consists of a full circle ‘ring’ or ‘hoop’ made from plate steel. The latest adapters are half-circle and made from aluminum. This makes them cheaper to produce, lighter to ship and easier to work with. So do not fret, dear reader, if your adapter kit does not include a large, heavy and unwieldy full circle steel bellhousing adapter.

Here the adapter ring is laid atop a spare IH bellhousing. Bolts are inserted in all 6 IH mounting locations. All 6 line up accurately. So far, so good.

700r4steelring.jpg


Here is the same ring attached to a GM 700r4 transmission. Of course from this angle you can hardly see the transmission, but that's not the point. What you *can* see is that there is a relief milled into the entire inside circumference of the ring. This provides room for the IH flexplate which would otherwise contact the steel ring. Note that I have temporarily installed the torque convertor adapter (round aluminum plate) to the torque convertor.

700r4ringtotrans.jpg


For some reason or another I did not take a photo of the back side of this setup. The adapter ring obviously has bolt holes on the backside for the transmission to bolt to the ring. This is evidenced by the fact that the ring is, verily, bolted to the transmission.

There are six bolts in total that are used here. Four of these are unobstructed and have bolts already installed (from the backside) – you can see the bolt tips in the green circles. The other two are in almost the same location as two of the IH bellhousing bolts (circled in red).

700r4ringtotransbolt.jpg


Truthfully, they are so close that I just drilled out these two 3/8” GM bolt holes to the size of the IH bolt holes (1/2”). You can see the interference in the next two pictures. I just chucked up a ½” drill bit and slowly drilled the aluminum transmission while the steel adapter ring was bolted in place.

So, we have four 3/8" bolts (stock GM has six) but we replace the other two 3/8" bolts with 1/2" bolts. These two 1/2" bolts do double duty - they sandwhich both the transmission and the adapter ring while bolting into the IH engine block. This is *plenty* strong.

Boltinterference1.jpg

Boltinterference2.jpg


Here are the two enlarged bolt holes from the backside, circled in green. Undoubtedly this does NOT remove too much material or weaken tha transmission case. Actually, the enlarged bolt holes look centered in their bosses quite nicely. So there, neener neener.

DrilledHole1.jpg

DrilledHole2.jpg
 
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Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
I need protection. But not too much protection.

The ‘regular’ GM 700r4 comes with a sheet metal dust cover for the lower side of its bellhousing. The ‘truck’ GM 700r4 comes with a cast aluminum dust cover. They bolt to the transmission with six bolts.

Here is a shiny (Oooohh!) sheet metal cover.

700r4coverstock1.jpg


Here is a cast aluminum cover with the six mounting bolt locations circled in red. I used only 4 of the six bolts. The two closest to the adapter ring were obstructed. Not a big deal in my mind. I’ll explain this later, probably.

700r4coverstock2.jpg


Here is a side view of the 700r4 without the dust cover installed.

700r4stock1.jpg


In the penultimate prior picture you may have noticed two bolt locations circled in green. GM used these to bolt metal struts (stiff rods, hehehe) from the dust cover to the engine block. This helps keep the aluminum transmission case from flexing under load. IH Only North sells these struts for the IH engine. I will fabricate my own struts and bolt them to the plenty-stiff-already full circle adapter ring. Artist’s rendition below:

700r4Strut.jpg


I'll drill and tap the ring for the second green bolt hole, then use a simple piece of flat stock (red) to connect the two. This will be more than stiff enough to keep the tranmission case from flexing.

Anyway, here is a frontal photo showing the dust cover installed – the mating surface is just above the red line.

Dustcover1.jpg


This dust cover above has been modified. Specifically, the front face has been removed as it interferes with the flexplate adapter portion of the adapter kit. Here is the part I removed with a standard 4.5” angle grinder and a cutoff wheel.

Dustcover2.jpg


Here is view from above the transmission. The flexplate adapter is installed and you can see one of the standoffs that will bolt to the IH flexplate. As any fool can clearly see, and I did see it clearly, these standoffs will hit an unmodified dustcover. So just cut the damn thing and quit whining already.

DustCover3.jpg
 

Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
Mangling the flexplate.

There are many small tasks required for this 700r4 conversion.

One is preparing the IH fleplate to receive the torque convertor adapter. There are two sets of bolt holes for a slightly larger/smaller diameter IH torque converter. These holes are shown in red. The inner set of holes have the correct diameter for the adapter bolts. By perverse design, the adapter utilized the outer set of bolt holes. The outer set of holes are just slightly too small; probably 5/16” whereas we need 3/8”. One must enlarge these outer holes to accept 3/8” bolts from the adapter kit. You could use a standard drill bit. I used a step drill bit. Either will work. Just go slow as there’s not a lot of material to remove.

IHFlexplate.jpg


Another step in the conversion is to grind a small amount from the GM transmission case to make room for the nose of the IH starter. I did not photograph this slight case modification as there are photos in other 700r4 conversion threads. The amount removed from the case will not ‘ruin ‘ the transmission for use in a GM product later. Alternatively, one could grind a small amount off the shrouded nose of the IH starter; but then you’ll need to do the same to any replacement starter installed down the road. I did the grinding on the transmission case. As it turns out, I’m using an aftermarket “hi-torque’ start with no shroud on its nose. I could have gotten away with no grinding, but then might have the same interference issue if I install a stock starter later. This is shown in the green box in the above photo.

Circled in blue is the pilot bore for the IH torque converter. We’ll pilot our adapter plate there, too. I suspect the convertor adapter plate is somewhat ‘universal’ in application since its pilot is too small to fit our IH pilot bore. Mercifully, the adapter kit includes a bushing of the correct size to fit our pilot bore. You, cherished reader, get to press this bushing onto the adapter plate. This operation is more than a hammer can handle. You might use a shop press or and arbor press to accomplish this task.

FlexplateBushing1.jpg


Partly installed - needed a press at this point.
FlexplateBushing2.jpg


The adapter kit provides 4 standoffs and 4 bolts to attach the torque convertor adapter to the flexplate. Here is the adapter installed to the flexplate.

Adaperonflexplate1.jpg


Here is a bottom view. The torque convertor adapter plate’s pilot (with bushing installed) fits into the pilot bore on the flexplate: red box. The 4 standoffs are easily seen. Note the bolts I used for this mockup are not the ones supplied in the kit. The ones I used are longer and protrude through the adapter: green boxes. Use the bolts from the kit as they are the correct length.

Adaperonflexplate2.jpg
 
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Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
Share the pain, err ‘joy’, at TVB wrenchfest.

JJ graciously dragged the whole carcass to his house for the 1st TVB Wrenchfest for some additional abuse. With the superb assistance of many excellent TVB folks, the GM 700r4 transmission was installed to the IH SV engine. We had a head start as the 727, Dana 20, and e-brake cable all were already removed.

The first step was to remove some of the cobbled-together-yet-quite-effective exhaust as it was cramping our style. It will be replaced later. No photos. We partially filled the GM torque converter with about a quart and a half of, get this, transmission fluid. The torque converter installs to the transmission, fully seated please. We used a combination of floor jack, Levi’s superhuman strength and a liberal amount of grunting, puffing and cursing to lift the transmission up to the plane of the engine.

Hey, the engine dowels to the adapter ring and the adapter ring dowels to the transmission. This greatly aids, and in fact enforces, proper alignment. Use your dowels. They're cheap and available.

Slowly aligning the transmission, it was bolted to the engine and adapter ring.

Not a lot of photos (somewhere around zero) were taken at this stage. Happily, this bit is not anywhere as difficult as rocket science, brain surgery or understanding what a woman wants.

Next step is to bolt the torque converter itself to the torque converter adapter plate. The plate is pre-drilled for two different size 3-bolt GM torque converter mounting patterns. My converter used the slightly smaller pattern. I could have used stock GM converter bolts, but elected to obtain slightly longer bolts instead. Don’t go too long. When you tighten these bolts you can damage the converter by ‘denting’ the converter shell with the tip of the bolt. This will push against lockup plate internally and you’ll get to pull the transmission and replace the converter – wheeeeee!

You may be asking yourself: "Self, why did that idiot not use stock length GM torque converter bolts?" If you were to instead ask me the same question, I would reply: "There is a gap between the torque converter (when fully seated into the transmission) and the torque converter adapter plate. The torque converter could pull slightly out from the transmission (in fact it is designed to do just this without causing issue), or I could take up most of the gap with a washer (on each bolt) between the converter and the adapter plate. I chose the latter so as to not even come close to pulling out the converter too far. Thus, the slightly longer converter bolts (+5mm IIRC: 20mm vs. 15mm stock)."

Again, no photo here. I could go take one but I already installed the GM dust cover. Cry me a river.

We trimmed the stock IH transmission crossmember and mocked it up under the 700r4 - naah, wont work. A custom crossmember is in order.

We also bolted up a Jeep Dana 300. Our hope was that the front output of the Dana 300 might have a chance to clear the tranmission pan - naah, too close for my comfort. If it could be made to work (and others have made it work) it would require a very thin drive shaft and be generally in the way under there.

We (Mike Richardson, actually, with a strange gleam in his eyes and incessant giggling issuing forth through his clenched teeth) removed the input from the Dana 300 so it would bolt up for our testing purposes. The Jeep 300 has a 23 spline input and the 700r4 has a 27 spline output. Custom outputs for the 700r4 or custom inputs for the dana 300 are available.

At this point we strapped down the trans to our temporary crossmember and JJ just as graciously brought the truck back home.
 
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Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
Moar Wrenchfest, and beyond.d.d.d.d!

While at the TVB Wrenchfest we also installed ‘new’ front and rear bumpers. These came on Donna’s new Scout II. She didn’t like them and wants stock bumpers. Now they’re mine, all mine I tell you! I have no idea who makes them. Donna got my old stock bumpers but I need to find her nicer ones for her truck.

FrontBumper.jpg

RearBumper.jpg


Fiddling with the bumpers brought to the forefront the sorry state of the godawful wiring at the rear of Red Power (gaak!) I had in my possession several 7-pole, ostensibly-waterproof trailer wiring boxes and a generous length of 7-conductor, 14-gauge trailer cable.

7-polebox.jpg

7conductorcable.jpg


The new rear bumper stands off the frame a little more than the stock bumper. There is now enough room to install the wiring box to the back crossmember of the frame and have it protected by the bumper. Even with the bumper installed the box cover can be removed providing access to the terminals therein. There is also sufficient room to install a combination 7-way/4-way trailer plug behind the bumper where it too is protected, yet enjoys easy accessibility.

Given the above information, I removed the stock wiring and installed said components thusly: (I still need to put the truck light wiring into split loom and use cable ties and adel clamps to hold it all in place, but you can get the gist of it.)

Bumper Removed:
Rearwiringandtrailer.jpg

Rearwiringcloseup.jpg


Bumper Installed:

Rearwiringbox.jpg

Rearwiringtrailer2.jpg

Rearwiringtrailer1.jpg


Tail lights, stop lights, turn signals, reverse lights and license lights, plus all trailer wiring, feed off the junction box. I believe this is far superior to the commonly encountered t-taps and butt splices. Also, all grounds are made to the junction box – no more of this sheet metal screw into the body crap.

Since the top is removable, I used a 4-way trailer connector to attach the license light and dome light wires behind the right tail lamp.

I chose to use bonded trailer wire to run new wires from the junction box to the actual truck lights. This seems a little cleaner and easier to manage than a bunch of loose wires taped together. The wire I found for this purpose is purportedly 16-gauge, but I think that may be a little optimistic. I may need to go to a larger gauge wire if this doesn’t hold up.

Alternatively, I could go to LED lighting and not have to worry about the amperage draw and wire size.

Rearlightswiring.jpg


The only additional bits of stock wiring from the middle of the truck to the back are the rear dome light and the fuel tank sender. I will probably add a second junction box amidships later to handle these circuits, plus the rear air conditioner, disco ball and whatever else.

Eventually I’ll work my way around and similarly rewire the front chassis and engine bay before tackling the interior. Modern fuse and relay panels are among the intended.
 

Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
Truculent Transmission Troubles

The stock IH crossmember aint gonna cut the mustard. Neither is the Jeep Dana 300.

I went to the local self service wrecking yard and, ahem, serviced myself? I came home with a NP208 from a 700r4, the crossmember, the t-case adapter, the shifter and linkage, the torque strut, and the front driveshaft. The donor vehicle is a 1988 GMC ½ ton Suburban.

The trans mount was torn, so $15+tax at the parts store and I have a brand new Anchor brand trans mount…made in India…I expect it to survive poorly before eventual replacement with a poly mount. However it works great for mockups.

This is how it mounts to the t-case adapter:
Stockchevytransmount.jpg


Here it is mocked up in chassis to the 700r4 and the stock GMC crossmember:
StockChevyCrossmember.jpg


And…here it is showing just how low it will all hang if I just bolt the crossmember to the bottom of the Traveler frame. Waaaay too low:

HangsTooLow1.jpg

HangsTooLow2.jpg


Of interest is the nifty little skid plate outlined in the red box. Since the crossmember mounts in front of the t-case this skid plate extends back below the front output area of the NP208 t-case. Whoopie! Also, you can see that the mounting surface of the crossmember is in the center (front to back) instead of on the ‘wings’.

This is why the crossmember can sit forward of the t-case: The GMC uses a double-cardan front driveshaft – the drive shaft does not droop as much right off the output yoke of the t-case. I expect to use this shaft for this conversion.

SuburbanDriveshaftFront.jpg


Without a doubt something must be done about the crossmember. But what? I’m not super-fabricator-welder-guy-extraordinaire.

After figuratively and literally turning the problem over and over, I decided to invert and laterally flip the GMC crossmember.

Here is the GMC crossmember in stock configuration:
Chevycrossmemberinstockposition.jpg


Here is the same crossmember, inverted and transposed (nifty skidplate removed):
Chevycrossmemberinverted.jpg


Notice that the ‘dip’ on the right (used to be the hump on the left) is not as pronounced – it doesn’t hang as low.

Of course now the mounting surface for the trans mount is facing down. I intend to use a section of the IH crossmember, located as shown below, bolted/welded to the chevy crossmember, and drilled for the GMC trans mount. I think this should all clear. I think this should tuck up under the Traveler frame a lot better. I think this should mount to the Traveler frame better.

ChevycrossmemberModified.jpg


We’ll see about all that when I get it done and installed.

In the meanwhile I bolted up the NP208. I jacked it into, relatively, the position it will occupy once installation is complete. It does not hang appreciably below the frame for a daily driver. It can and might go higher – gotta maintain awareness of driveshaft alignment issues.

NP208PassengerDrop.jpg


Possibly in the works is a slip yoke elimination by using a fixed yoke output from a Dodge NP208 t-case. Not sure it'll be worth the effort for a daily driver; but, I'll likely do it wayway.
 

Anthony Weigant

Farmall Cub
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
301
Points
16
Location
Lascassas, TN
Now THIS..........




Is a build thread.

Although I just realized something.

When i read this aloud, I sound like the Architect from the Matrix.

I think Monkeyplasm IS the Architect!!
 

J.J.

Lives in an IH Dealership
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
7,397
Points
113
Location
Castalian Springs, TN
Toby,
great thread! Glad to be a part of this. And that you were able to source an transfer case, NOT the ones that were advertised in my crawl space :oops:


I have photograpic proof that Red Power has indeed moved on and off your property, NOT under it's own power though.

ourdriveway.jpg


Wrenchfest 2012 Dville.

TobyDriveway.jpg


Safe and sound back home.

See you Wednesday for yet another round of the Pull a Part.


JJ
 

Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
Transfer Case Transference

Short update; I'm tired as I got up before noon today...waaah!

I've finished piddling about with the upside down and backwards t-case crossmember. Here's the little adapter piece I made from a short section of the original Scout II crossmember. One could instead use a little piece of flat steel instead and then add a spacer (plates, square tubing, etc.) to raise the mount point as required.

xmb_slots1.jpg


Drill then slot holes with grinder and cleanup with dremel.
xmb_slots2.jpg


Test fit chevy mount
xmb_slots4.jpg


Completed
xmb_slots3.jpg



SIDE NOTE: The stock chevy crossmember from the next generation of trucks (94+ ?)has no humps and valleys, but it is also very wide. Nevertheless it could be mounted upside down under the frame (to get the flat surface) with the actual -to-the-frame attachment outboard of the rails via L-brackets. One would still need to fabricate a raised mount point in the center - something similar to the above part. It was worth a shot, but ultimately a waste of $20 at the pull-a-part yard.
xmb_latestyle.jpg



Reinstalled the new mount apparatus and jacked the crossmember into place under the frame rails.

Left side has plenty of clearance for junk - like exhaust and e-brake cables.
xmb_clearleft.jpg


Center view.
xmb_clearcenter.jpg


Right side will need some care to get the exhaust routed; but certainly no worse than the stock exhaust around a Dana 20. Driveshaft has plenty of clearance. Case hangs under the frame just a bit and the crossmember protects it. I may add back the stock chevy 'skidplate' (see prior post) to better cover the lower bit of the case.
xmb_clearright.jpg


Here's a better shot of the mount itself:
xmb_mount.jpg


Haven't decided how to bolt to the actual frame rail yet...probably drill, sleeve and bolt through the framerail top to bottom. Maybe something else.
xmb_frameleft.jpg


As it turns out the transmission output angle is within 1/2 of a degree compared to the rear axle pinion angle. May not need any tweaking at all, may vibrate like an hourly motel room bed. Definitely an issue to investigate ... later.

The front driveshaft at the transfercase: Plenty of clearance and much easier to get at the driveshaft bolts compared to a Dana 20. This area may get the mini-skidplate added back.
208_frontclear.jpg


Front driveshaft clearance at just above ride height: Lots of room.
208_frontride.jpg


Front driveshaft clearance at full droop (laying on the ground): Still lots of room.
208_frontdroop.jpg


This shows that there is room to skip the raised mount adapter and go with a flat plate plus shims. There's an off chance this may be needed if the trans must be lowered to produce a modicum of driveline angle relief.
 

Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
Thinking about the box

The offroad build is waiting on crossmember creation in order to get the transfer cases mounted and positioned rotationally.

This clearly called for thinking outside the box. So I built a box.
ort_dualmount1.jpg


I had some 4" c-channel laying about. It was a pallet rack crossmember in a former life. A buddy and I made it eat its own tail.

The plan is to drill and sleeve the frame rails to hold this in place - probably three or four 1/2" bolts per side, or perhaps six 3/8" bolts in three sets of two.
ort_dualmount2.jpg


We'll probably end up adding additional large-scale gusseting, front and back, along the lines of this:
ort_dualmount3.jpg
 

Monkeyplasm

Farmall Cub
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
252
Points
16
Location
Nashville,
You say 'tomato', I say 'ghezhortenshpladdt'

After an indeterminate period of mucking about and generally avoiding work and the heat, I went back at it.

I went ahead and did the fixed yoke conversion on the 208. One day a few weeks ago at the pull-a-part yard JJ and I (mostly JJ) pulled a fixed-yoke Dodge np208. Basically, while I was trying not to die from heat stroke and dehydration, JJ went medieval on the poor Dodge’s *** before wresting the transfer case from its carcass.

I elected to do the ‘rotate and redrill’ method of conversion to fixed yoke instead of the ‘cut and weld’ conversion. Write-ups are found on the web, so I’ll not detail them here.

Sample: http://www.wheelindixie.com/forums/showthread.php?4692-fixed-yoke-n-a-chevy-NP208
Sample: http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281005


Here’s a stock Dodge np208 (upside down – it’s a passenger drop case)
208_Dodge.jpg


Here’s the Chevy np208 with the Dodge fixed output shaft – note the differences in the case back-halfs
Hybrid2081.jpg



OK, so I piddled with the t-case for a while, now to finish mounting it all up.

The aforementioned inverted-humpty-dumpty crossmember (see prior posts in this very thread for pictures) for the 700r4 would have worked just fine.

Reminder picture:
2081stxmember2.jpg


In fact I had a friend coming over to do some welding for me and one task was to weld in said crossmember.

2081stxmember3.jpg


Quite naturally the immediacy of his visit required a complete change of plans the day before his arrival.

I elected to go with the also-aforementioned later-model Chevy crossmember: The very wide and flat one (see prior posts in this very thread for those pictures, too).

OK, so here’s a picture of that, too (see, it's wider :D ):
xmb_latestyle.jpg


I used a similar, but taller spacer (made from another crossmember) to raise the actual mounting point to an appropriate height.

2082ndxmember2.jpg


And, here it is installed:
2082ndxmember10.jpg


I used some gusseted angle iron welded to the outside of the frame. I could have bolted to the frame, but this was both more expedient and will not interfere with anything between the frame rails. So a-welding we went.

Ignore the too-short bolts and extraneous washers. I used what was close at hand and will replace them with appropriate fasteners later. I also cut down the still-too-wide crossmember to match the new angle iron brackets.

2082ndxmember12.jpg

2082ndxmember15.jpg


Here you can see the t-case doesn’t hang below the crossmember, I doubt a skid plate is needed, although one could be added with little difficulty:
2082ndxmember11.jpg

2082ndxmember17.jpg


The drivetrain still maintains a reasonable angle, similar to stock:
2082ndxmember16.jpg


Here’s the front driveshaft disconnected at the front diff - just hanging. There’s still plenty of room for the driveshaft to flex, plus the crossmember’s top front flange can be notched for more room. I expect this will not be necessary, even with the impending spring-over-axle changes.
2082ndxmember14.jpg

2082ndxmember18.jpg


It’s a little tighter to get at the upper front driveshaft mounting bolts, but still nowhere near as bad as a stock Scout II.
 
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