valve seals

[ron c]

I am looking at replacing the valve seals with the heads still on. 345 in a 73 Scout. I was wondering about the valve spring compressor. I have found one that works with the shaft-style for the Ford and Chysler and was wondering if it will work on the IH engine. It is just a simple lever type, but I do not want to order it if it will not work. Plan on using compressed air to hold valves up. Is there anything I need to look for or consider while I have it apart. Smokes when I first crank it up, clears up after it runs a while. Compression test shows good on all cylinders. Thanks.

 

[Bill USN-1]

There is a lot of threads on here covering the subject.
search for puff of smoke or something like that.
2 main things to consider.
1. go with umbrella seals like the BBC used.
2. Pull the last inside head bolt out and clean the oil drain back hole out.
It runs around the last head bolt shank and gets clogged up.
causes oil to puddle in the head.

 

[Dan Phariss]

I am looking at replacing the valve seals with the heads still on. 345 in a 73 Scout. I was wondering about the valve spring compressor. I have found one that works with the shaft-style for the Ford and Chysler and was wondering if it will work on the IH engine. It is just a simple lever type, but I do not want to order it if it will not work. Plan on using compressed air to hold valves up. Is there anything I need to look for or consider while I have it apart. Smokes when I first crank it up, clears up after it runs a while. Compression test shows good on all cylinders. Thanks.

If oil consumption is OK then the puff at startup is meaningless and is in fact "normal" for the SV engines.
There are no valve seals as found on the BB chevy for example. Just O rings at the caps to prevent pooled oil from running down the stems. If oil consumption is excessive then it may need a fix. Just remember to seal all the rockershaft bolts that thread into the intake runners or the valve seals will not be the problem.
If it only smokes at startup the drainbacks are probably OK unless you find a lot of crud on top of the heads.

Dan

 

[JerryD]

... There are no valve seals as found on the BB chevy for example. Just O rings at the caps to prevent pooled oil from running down the stems.

Dan - I have some notes here from an old post (didn't write down the author) but this is the gist of the post:

Buy Chevy #427-429 umbrella valve stem seals. There are two versions, long and short. I use the short ones. They slip right in place of the factory seal ring International uses.

Hasn't been an issue for me, but I kept the info just in case. Bill, is this what you mean?

 

[Bill USN-1]

other threads
#2


You might be right Dan. But I would recommend you try it before you dismiss it as invalid.
Don't get the heavy duty ones. they are thicker at the top.
These are listed for a 78 chevy 454
Sealed Power MV1769
Tapered Sides
partsamerica

These are the style I prefer. I'm a ford guy.
These are listed for a 79 ford 460.
Sealed Power MV1796
Straight Sides

Now keep in mind that I replied with actual data that has worked for me.
I have perfomed the above listed proceedure on my last 2 IH motors and completely solved my puff of blue smoke on start up.

And don't let people scare you into thinking that it robs the vaveguide of oil.
untrue.
as you can see one of the biggest gasket manufacturers make these seals.
They are used in a lot of motors.
I would assume the O-ring style is only used as a cost cutting measure during assembly. 100 o-ring for $.01 vs 1 umbrella for $.01
What you don't want to use is the PC style positive lock seal.
But they require machining the valveguide any way.

As for tools.
I have used one of these. It works fine but is slow.
I now have a break over style that is faster.
tools

 

[Dan Phariss]

other threads
#2


You might be right Dan. But I would recommend you try it before you dismiss it as invalid.
Don't get the heavy duty ones. they are thicker at the top.
These are listed for a 78 chevy 454
Sealed Power MV1769

The BB Chevy umbrella types will work for all the intakes on the SV V-8 unless the cam has enough valve lift to mash them. Anything over .450 valve lift may cause trouble and a check for clearance has to be made.
I did not dismiss anything as invalid. I said a puff of smoke at start up is normal. I consider this a fact based on the number of SV powered trucks, pickups and t-alls the family has had since 1961. Something in the realm of 17. Sometimes its from a leaky valve cover allowing oil to pass the exhaust manifold gasket, another thing to check.
If oil consumption is within reason then seals are just for cosmetics and to me not worth the trouble. If it smokes at idle, the puff is big, consumption is high, thats something else again. However, high oil consumption generally means something worse than valve seals.

Dan

 

[Bill USN-1]

Your right Dan. Cause if he was installing a cam and not just wanting to cure the "normal" IH puff of smoke, I would recommend something like this while he had the heads off.

I cut ~.100" off when going to an aftermarket cam.

 

[joe_r95]

http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/AAP/SEA/STRAIGHT.jpg[/IMG]

Picked up a set of these and the holes are way too small for the valve. Did you drill them out, or just cram them on?

 

[Bill USN-1]

I just looked up the specs for the 1796 and it shows an ID of .315.
The IH O-rings show .300
So they should fit just fine.

 

[db1115]

Your right Dan. Cause if he was installing a cam and not just wanting to cure the "normal" IH puff of smoke, I would recommend something like this while he had the heads off.

I cut ~.100" off when going to an aftermarket cam.

Bill,

Could you please explain this macining a little more or point me to a thread where you go into more detail.

Thank you.

 

[joe_r95]

I just looked up the specs for the 1796 and it shows an ID of .315.
The IH O-rings show .300
So they should fit just fine.

The part store I got them from doesnt list them on their website, and what they sold me doesnt look anything like the picture on napas website. Maybe they were superceded by another part # there. Will reorder from napa and see what I end up with.

 

[Bill USN-1]

Bill,

Could you please explain this macining a little more or point me to a thread where you go into more detail.

Thank you.

It's mentioned in the BP knowledge base valve train FAQ.
Here is the long version of the thread.
I had a complete write up on my engine assembly and mods but I will have to find it.
The tool is made by crane, comp cams and several others.
Mine is a combination spring seat cutter and valve guide cutter.
They're about $50.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=valve%20seat%20tool&dds=1
Here's one example.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-4724/

You need to pre-assemble the heads and measure at your full lift spec to see if you even need to do any cutting.

 

[db1115]

Awesome info in link you posted Bill. Thanks.

 

[joe_r95]

I just looked up the specs for the 1796 and it shows an ID of .315.
The IH O-rings show .300
So they should fit just fine.

Reordered from napa, but Im wondering if the design has been updated. The ID of the ones Ive got here is .335, my valves are .370 on the shafts where these would ride. These are made of a hard material that doesnt give. Got them from O'Reilly, so beware if your ordering from there.

 

[Bill USN-1]

You definately don't want the hard plastic ones.

I don't understand all the problems.
I looked them up by application on autozone/oreillys/rockauto.

Each list several manufactures of the seal and show pics.
You can buy ea for about $.29 or by the bag of 16.

1979 ford F250 7.5 valve seals.

 

[Bill USN-1]

Awesome info in link you posted Bill. Thanks.

It's also in the BP knowledge base but most don't think to look there.