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Scout II 5.9 Magnum 408 Project

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Lars-S

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Jun 11, 2020
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Yesterday was the best day of the summer (so far?). Today morning was OK but humid and raining again. That said nothing done on Scout since Thursday since we were open outside and had a special order for pickup on Sat morning.. Better still the last 3 days were great customer and new customers wise since the Covid shutdowns.. Hopefully they will be repeats. A father and daughter came after reading about us on FB. That from a mom and sons that were in hour earlier..

Rest of week looks OK so will work on finishing front inner fenders. I need to get the exhaust done too by next week. That gives me just shy of 2 weeks to have it running and get it out front for the Truck/Car/Bike show on the 28th. I am not worried about the hood and/or outer fenders for the show.. Crap just remembered I need to do the rear SOA or at least make the driveshaft the correct length to be able to drive it.. OH well one day at a time and if it doesn't make it at least her little sister CJ will be in it.

PS Edit:
Not worried about hood and outer fenders since seeing a Dakota 408 and 46RE hopefully outweighs current condition of rest of our Scout.

PPS:
Plus as of current pre-registrations it would be the only Scout... can't have NO IH's lol
 
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J.J.

Lives in an IH Dealership
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
7,302
Points
113
Location
Castalian Springs, TN
Yesterday was the best day of the summer (so far?). Today morning was OK but humid and raining again. That said nothing done on Scout since Thursday since we were open outside and had a special order for pickup on Sat morning.. Better still the last 3 days were great customer and new customers wise since the Covid shutdowns.. Hopefully they will be repeats. A father and daughter came after reading about us on FB. That from a mom and sons that were in hour earlier..

Rest of week looks OK so will work on finishing front inner fenders. I need to get the exhaust done too by next week. That gives me just shy of 2 weeks to have it running and get it out front for the Truck/Car/Bike show on the 28th. I am not worried about the hood and/or outer fenders for the show.. Crap just remembered I need to do the rear SOA or at least make the driveshaft the correct length to be able to drive it.. OH well one day at a time and if it doesn't make it at least her little sister CJ will be in it.

PS Edit:
Not worried about hood and outer fenders since seeing a Dakota 408 and 46RE hopefully outweighs current condition of rest of our Scout.


hahaha, I like your spirit, who needs outer sheetmetal or rear driveshafts anyway, if its all wheel drive, get it there on front wheel drive, worry about the rear later. Its not uncommon to see 4x4 trucks that have been lifted with no front driveshafts around here.

JJ in TN
 

Lars-S

Binder Driver
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
891
Points
93
Going to have the Dakota's plastic tank inside above where the 33gal one was until I build a new tank for the FI. 🙃
 

Lars-S

Binder Driver
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
891
Points
93
Productive day now that one can breathe with lower temps and humidity.. got front, back and sides mowed .. yea about an acre..

I marked up and cut out the pieces I will weld to the inner fender splash panels. Used some of the 16ga I had left. These I can then use to allow bolting and unbolting of a complete inner splash fender from the front, from the inner tower, and from the firewall. Here is a shot of the pieces that will go into new design. Second shot shows just the panel part that will bolt to the front section.

SplashFenderForward.jpeg
SplashFenderAttachmentFront.jpeg


I also was able to rig up a low dollar 16 ga brake to add the kick out needed on the one side of the inner tower. After I did that I went back and finished putting the 90 in at the top of the tower that they couldn't do on the brake at the sheet metal supplier.. Last photo shows its current state.. Needs some final tweaking but is very close to final shape.. It will have a wider top than the original but that shouldn't be a problem.. Worse case I can cut a slit down the middle and weld it up with same width as original.. I like it being 16 ga as a alot is attached to that side.

InnerTowerInBrake-1.jpeg
InnerTowerInBrake-2.jpeg
InnerTower-Rough.jpg



PS Edit: I used the long arms of the clamps as levers to help pull down but also had to do some grunt pushing on the center of 2x12 to start a crease.
 
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Lars-S

Binder Driver
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Jun 11, 2020
Messages
891
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Cut off the old tower section from the DS. Welded on the new 16 ga one we made. Way sturdier. I may even redo the PS in 16 ga though it doesn't really need it as the bottom 2" of it are not severly rusted like the DS was. Have some customer orders to work on and we are open tomorrow through Sun so not sure if will get anything else done on it.. May weld the new end plates on which then will hold the 2 sides in correct location while I weld the new splash guard center section to them.

The 16ga tower piece, which is TIG welded to the front, is strong enough to not need to use the rectangular tubing I got. My current plan is to just weld a flat section onto the bottom of the tower after I've added a few tacked in nuts to that piece. The new inner splash fender assemblies I'm making will then bolt up to the front, this new 16ga piece down the center, and the braces that already are on the firewall end. I'll post pictures of all of this next week. Not stock but then this isn't an accurate reproduction restoration.. Heck its a get it back together so we can USE it project now LOL
 

Lars-S

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Messages
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Today and tomorrow more heat advisories but hope to get some welding done in cellar .. better for TIG no breeze ..tank is almost empty but will get CO2/Argon next instead as I will finish welding up the bottom splash panels using MIG.. I am not worried about smooth welds or good looking ones (lol).

I used a 1" pipe and metal sledge to get the radius I needed for one side of the new middle section I made from the skins off the Scout doors.

InnerMiddleRadius.jpg


Here is what is left of the bottom of the inner splash fenders. One still had metal (?) all the way across while the other was disintegrated so I did a rough cut on it.

InnerBothRusted.jpeg


Here are the pieces ready to be welded together to remake the bottoms of the inner fenders (splash guards).
An outside piece, a middle top piece, an inner piece, and the new 16ga ends. I cut back almost all of the old center sections until I got to the down radius.
Unfortunately I left them outside overnight and forecast was wrong ... it rained.. but would buff and wipe with acetone anyway to remove unseen stuff.
The plan is to TIG weld the new end plates to sides, then add middle to plate, Finally MIG weld all together after I use cardboard template to get them tack welded like original. Least thats the plan.

InnerBothReady2Weld.jpeg


I'm showing all pieces from bottom on one side and then all pieces from the top on other
New metal is so much nicer to weld/work with... spent a ton of time removing the old dried out undercoating from bottom of old inner fenders.. It could start melting, smoking and potentially catch fire when welding heated up the panels.
 
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Lars-S

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Messages
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Long day of TIG welding .. just ran out of argon but too late to go get MIG gas.
Parts of the inner sides were paper thin. Trying to weld that to 16 ga was an experience. Other side had the thick flanges so even where badly pitted gauge was about same as new stuff... So I did mange to get sides welded to both new front pieces.. Tomorrow will weld on top center sections.. That should go easier and faster. I will be Mig welding, gauges are the same, and do not have to clamp and reclamp as I align and keep pieces flat.

Here's one of the new assemblies welded to front section:
FrontPanelA-bothsides.jpeg


Heres both of the fronts showing the tacks coming through.. on the first one still getting the hang of it and settings set..

FrontPanelA-Tacks.jpeg


Here's the other side .. I impressed myself LOL .. not difficult :O). but these tacks are almost perfect circles, full penetration, and small heat circles.. The panel didn't oil can or need any hammering just tack move tack move tack move HOORAY

FrontPanelB-Tacks.jpeg
 

Lars-S

Binder Driver
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Jun 11, 2020
Messages
891
Points
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Got C02/Argon this morning.. I can't believe they charged Hazmat fee.. I picked it up they didn't deliver it... oh well I may ask next time I don't remember that for straight argon.. WOW night and day when it comes to heat versus TIG .. much hotter, panel heats up in an instant compared to heat build up with Tig torch..

Have to practice a bit and get settings correct and I was correct I tested on a cut piece that I hadn't removed dried undercoating from... heated up ... bubbled oozed and then flames.. That said this is the first time I've used the Mig welder I bought over month ago.. it appears the voltage isn't displaying on the digital gauge but not a biggie (may just be a wire came off on it) .. for sheet metal this thin it would be on minimal 15/16 so it seems to work ...nice bacon sound - relatively low welds, and full penetration with bead on other side too.

Wire speed really controls a lot of the heat and penetration .. I'd like to step down to .023 but don't have that size nozzle and the roller is only .8 or 1.0 (.030 .035). Have to wait until Mon now to do more .. I'm working outside all weekend and with the heat and humidity by end of day too drained to weld safely.
 
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Lars-S

Binder Driver
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Jun 11, 2020
Messages
891
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Just ordered smaller .6/023 drive roller and mig tips. Should be here tomorrow. I am able to mig using the .030 but if I go down to the .023/025 the heating up of adjacent metal should drop. It can help with blow thru too on any ultra thin areas of sheet metal.. I'd rather have it and try using it before I just blast ahead using the .030 wire. If it helps. reduce heat distortion its a plus
 
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Lars-S

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Messages
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Finally the humidity is supposed to break overnight.. feels like it already has started though it may just be the shade from the trees.

Got the .023 tips and drive wheel for the .023 wire. Tips no problem.. The drive wheel didn't want to go all the way on.. I didn't want to force it. Comparing it to the one on the machine the only difference I could see was the new one didn't have bevels on both ends where the keyway rides. I could put it on either side first and it would still hang up in same spot.. So out came my Dremel .. carbide tip and added bevels to both ends.. problem solved..

I took the cover off the Mig welder and traced the wires from both pot controls on the front that were not working.. They both went to the same connector on one of the circuit boards. Wiggled and pushed on it. Buttoned it up and IT WORKS including the Voltage now being displayed on the digitial gauge.. It actually goes down to 13 volt so I should be able to dial it in for as thin as 20 ga.. Open all day tomorrow so will get back to welding on Monday.. I did change the .030 spool over to .023 and fed it through fine to test the drive wheel..

Gotta go ...

PS next day edit .. I had purchased the MIG from Trevor (same company that sells the shrinker in another thread).. I sent them email, they replied same night, asked for video/pics (proof/examples), was pleased with that as it came with a 1 yr warranty.

PPS .. I read and watched a lot of videos on using .023 and panels down to .22 ga Seems the way to go is tack and stitch. Found though 2 varieties of stitch where one is basically tack, tack, tack quickly next to each other to get a kind of stacked dimes effect a small section at a time. The other said he cranks the heat a tad higher and does a 1>2" run moving very quickly. His opinion is that doing that imparts less heat than a series of quick tacks because overall one is spending less total time heating up a 1" stitch area.. it would seem less likelihood for pin holes or penetration. Again these inner splash guards aren't critical so either should work.. It appears the voltage should be under 18 something like 17ish for the hot quick 1" stitch and 15/16 for regular seam and or quick tacks.. My machine reads out current not wire speed but that can be converted or I can just time it for an actual vs guage reading.I can then make a chart to put inside cover where spools go.
 
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Lars-S

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Messages
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After I had tacked the front of the middle pieces to the front plate it became apparent I had not cleaned off enough of the underside to get welds that might not be contaminated by remaining paint. I also had not done anything to prevent rust as I was going to close the seams on both sides.. I wasn't comfortable with this (long weekend helped reach that). I then used the mini cutoff wheels on my Dremel to cut through my tacks and not remove a lot of metal. They are way thinner than a 1/16" cutoff wheel..

I then cleaned much larger areas to weld together with no areas of possible melting or burning into existing paint. I painted all surfaces that would be lapped over each other with Steel-It stainless spray. Did that yesterday so it had a day in the sun and then overnight to flash off any solvent..

A little while ago I did the check and conversion of settings on the new MIG welder.. It doesn't have #'s only gradient marking around the dial. Seven in total. I then moved to each one, saw what the display was showing, snipped off the wire at the nozzle, ran the gun for a second, measured how much wire came out. I did this for all but the first and last gradients. I repeated the process several times to check consistency and get an average reading. Last but not least I multiplied all the numbers to give me what the ACTUAL wire feed was versus knob position and digital readout..

What I came up with is:

Knob
Position​
Current
Reading​
Inches
Per Minute​
2​
33​
90​
3​
60​
150​
4​
80​
165​
5​
110​
195​
6​
133​
240​


The voltage knob works and displays voltage where the wire speed knob only shows current readings for different positions.
Now I'll use some scrap pieces I have to dial in as best I can the settings to use before I weld up the actual pieces of the inner fenders.
Its a slight challenge as the thicknesses of the steel are not all the same gauge and some areas will be thinner due to cleaning/rust.
The lovely challenge pretty much anyone working on restoring/patching up a vehicle thats been in the field (literally LOL) for years.
Hopefully by end of day both inner fender lower splash panels will be 1 piece removable sections.

Late In Day EDIT:
Problem with stuff dragging on is that then the tendacy to rush a little when things seem to be going right strikes.. I got the tack settings spot on and was placing them all around spaced out. Small heat zones no distortion. I then started to do tack on tacks and short straight beads and wasn't stopping in between.. My welds got ugly , stuff started heating up too much, and well upset with myself.. I wasn't stopping and hammering and re-clamping which then lets sections spread apart just enough to keep welds from melting together nicely.. I have one side with seams tacked and partially welded on both inner and outer overlap seams.. No issues with Steel-It ... seems to weld fine and not popping or burning off next to welds.. I have to stop now though as while I am wearing a respirator for it the cellar has no ventilation and there's a cloud lingering ..
 
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Lars-S

Binder Driver
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Messages
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Here are a couple of shots from today ... one showing the underside of the sheet that laps over the sides of the inner splash fenders.. You can see it has been coated with Steel-It.. Underneath it are the sides it will be welded to also sprayed with Steel-IT.

FrontInnerUnderside-Steel-IT.jpeg


Here are the settings I'm currently using to weld the top to the sides. The welder has knob for wire speed but displays it as current.. Based on my table in previous post this works out to 17 volts at about 160 ips.. The readout for voltage is only whole numbers so based on movement of knob to raise it to 17 from 16 this probably about 16.7 volts.

FrontInnerFenderSplash-MigSettings.jpeg


After the cloud dissipated I did a whole series of tacks the correct way aka clamp, tack, move clamp, tack, move clamp, tack - go back and tack inbetween, then go back and tack in between those, plus taking a 5 minute break between to allow heat to dissipate. Here is the results of doing it correctly... And yes will end up with a solid seam when all done (HOPEFULLY ? LOL)

FrontInnerSplashTacks-1.jpeg
FrontInnerTacks-2.jpeg


If you look carefully at the two above photos you can see a line in the green paint couple inches below the crease in the panels.. That is the penetration showing from welding the seams on the inside. I welded both seam edges closed.
 
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Lars-S

Binder Driver
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Jun 11, 2020
Messages
891
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It goes without saying but will ..if you are welding ESPECIALLY with zinc or Steel-It coatings WEAR A RESPIRATOR!
The smoke you see, or may not see, isn't just burnt carbon.. After I weld a bit, even if its just the tacks, I take the nozzle off the Mig Torch and pop out the Steel-IT that has formed a coating in it.. If its doing that to the nozzle you can bet it would be doing it to your throat and lungs.. The made for welding heavy metal respirator I wear is worth being uncomfortable with and slightly interfering with my helmet.. Actually that helps me to take welding breaks so the metal can cool so double win.
 

Lars-S

Binder Driver
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
891
Points
93
Arrg So another AirGas saga ... I know now to read the labels carefully before leaving.. this time it felt light but it was the correct gas in an aluminum instead of steel cylinder. Get all the way back, attach it, open the valve - NOTHING ... This time I was given an empty cylinder it appears.. Sadly they are the only close by distributor of welding gases.. Hello it costs money to drive back and forth plus the time.. I called and they said bring it back.. I will wait a bit so I don't explode in the office.. assume they have other gases there for that :O)

Afternoon Edit: So pretty much lost this morning with the running around.. yea 2nd tank was full.. they offered to give me a discount on my next refill because this one was already paid for(?) ... That to me was poor customer service.. first experience wrong gas helping to burn holes and contaiminate prepped metal, this time tank with no gas at all in it.. One would have thought an offer like that wouldn't take 2 big mistakes oh well II will go back though as next closest place is 2x the distance away..
 
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Arkansas Dave

High Wheeler
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
2,180
Points
113
Location
Pottsville, AR
Productive day now that one can breathe with lower temps and humidity.. got front, back and sides mowed .. yea about an acre..

I marked up and cut out the pieces I will weld to the inner fender splash panels. Used some of the 16ga I had left. These I can then use to allow bolting and unbolting of a complete inner splash fender from the front, from the inner tower, and from the firewall. Here is a shot of the pieces that will go into new design. Second shot shows just the panel part that will bolt to the front section.

View attachment 212003 View attachment 212002

I also was able to rig up a low dollar 16 ga brake to add the kick out needed on the one side of the inner tower. After I did that I went back and finished putting the 90 in at the top of the tower that they couldn't do on the brake at the sheet metal supplier.. Last photo shows its current state.. Needs some final tweaking but is very close to final shape.. It will have a wider top than the original but that shouldn't be a problem.. Worse case I can cut a slit down the middle and weld it up with same width as original.. I like it being 16 ga as a alot is attached to that side.

View attachment 212006 View attachment 212007 View attachment 212005


PS Edit: I used the long arms of the clamps as levers to help pull down but also had to do some grunt pushing on the center of 2x12 to start a crease.
Is that one of those MEP-804A sheet metal brakes? I have a similar one but mine is the 2x4 version! Looks good making progress

Dave
 

Arkansas Dave

High Wheeler
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
2,180
Points
113
Location
Pottsville, AR
Arrg So another AirGas saga ... I know now to read the labels carefully before leaving.. this time it felt light but it was the correct gas in an aluminum instead of steel cylinder. Get all the way back, attach it, open the valve - NOTHING ... This time I was given an empty cylinder it appears.. Sadly they are the only close by distributor of welding gases.. Hello it costs money to drive back and forth plus the time.. I called and they said bring it back.. I will wait a bit so I don't explode in the office.. assume they have other gases there for that :O)

Afternoon Edit: So pretty much lost this morning with the running around.. yea 2nd tank was full.. they offered to give me a discount on my next refill because this one was already paid for(?) ... That to me was poor customer service.. first experience wrong gas helping to burn holes and contaiminate prepped metal, this time tank with no gas at all in it.. One would have thought an offer like that wouldn't take 2 big mistakes oh well II will go back though as next closest place is 2x the distance away..
Man those guys sound like some places I have been to before you would think they would keep the empty bottles separated from the full ones or put MT stickers
on them. We always write MT with a sharpie marker on duct tape on ours at work if returning empty so we don't get them mixed up easily and have a separate rack
we keep them in for the driver to pick them up. Hope it gets better for you with those guys.

Dave
 

J.J.

Lives in an IH Dealership
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
7,302
Points
113
Location
Castalian Springs, TN
Arrg So another AirGas saga ... I know now to read the labels carefully before leaving.. this time it felt light but it was the correct gas in an aluminum instead of steel cylinder. Get all the way back, attach it, open the valve - NOTHING ... This time I was given an empty cylinder it appears.. Sadly they are the only close by distributor of welding gases.. Hello it costs money to drive back and forth plus the time.. I called and they said bring it back.. I will wait a bit so I don't explode in the office.. assume they have other gases there for that :O)

Afternoon Edit: So pretty much lost this morning with the running around.. yea 2nd tank was full.. they offered to give me a discount on my next refill because this one was already paid for(?) ... That to me was poor customer service.. first experience wrong gas helping to burn holes and contaiminate prepped metal, this time tank with no gas at all in it.. One would have thought an offer like that wouldn't take 2 big mistakes oh well II will go back though as next closest place is 2x the distance away..

dude, tell them that should be at least 2 fill ups because the only gas they gave you was them farting around HAHAHA

JJ in TN
 
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