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Nick's scout AKA the Blue Bomber

2021 Arizona International Harvester Rendezvous

oldironoffroad

High Wheeler
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
1,441
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38
Location
crossville,tn
Yeah Mark . I was excited for Nick to get this update. It has been 9 years since he has heard this thing run.:punk: Nick it does run really smooth, but I think I can make it smoother. I set the timing at 7 BTC, but am only pulling 13hg of vacuum. That is a little low. I double checked for vacuum leaks and found none. I am gonna bump the timing some more and close the throttle plates abit more at idle. Hopefuly get the vacuum to at least 15hg . I have seen some of these rigs take as much as 12* advance running on 87, but some as little as 7* any more and they would ping like nuts. I am also gonna nudge ya again and tell you what a great upgrade a pertronix ignitor is.......:yes:
 

oldironoffroad

High Wheeler
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crossville,tn
Well engine Vacuum can tell you a number of things about the overall condition of a motor to how much fuel you are using. I think a more important reading is a steady vacuum reading vs. higher ,but really I just feal like the throttle plates should be closed a little more at idle. If they are open to much you will be pulling in fuel from other circuits in the carb causing an overly rich idle. If I bump the timing It will increase idle speed, which in turn will allow me to close the throttle plates to slow the idle speed back to spec, further improve idle quality, and get a rise in vacuum. This is done only after making sure again that I have no vacuum leaks. Anyone feel free to tell me I am full of S!@t at any time.:stuart:
 

DavidWTravelallfan

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Acworth Georgia
your right about the timing and idle. Where you live your probably a couple thousand above sea level which you will loose about 2" of vac. Im at about 1K and mine is running about 14 in park with no load on engine. (900 rpm) approx. Drop it in drive and vac drops to around 12 or so. I even advanced the cam 2 teeth with no change of vac. A holley 4 Bl carb gives a better vac signal due to the dist advance port does have a slight vac signal on it at idle speeds, which will advance the timing slightly. On a 1405 its "dead" at idle and only gives a signal when i rev above fast idle.

Any other possibilitys is worn compression rings and or low compression in general. Like using composite head gaskets without doing any machine work to block or heads. I know my comp is low.
 

oldironoffroad

High Wheeler
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crossville,tn
David you are right about me being above sea level. I didn't even think about that. The rings being worn is out due to this being a fresh rebuild. I also had to put another head on the motor due to one of the exaust mani studs being broke and at that time I removed and replaced steel head gaskets. That combined with it having a stock ground cam the vacuum numbers should be higher wouldn't you say? With all factored in 15 hg should be about normal?
 

Mark B 70SR2

High Wheeler
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Jan 12, 2007
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Columbus, GA
Levi, I know you've probably done this, but check for an internal vacuum leak (aka bad PCV, or brake booster) by temporarily plugging it.
 

Dennis Bernth

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Mill Creek, IN.
David you are right about me being above sea level. I didn't even think about that. The rings being worn is out due to this being a fresh rebuild. I also had to put another head on the motor due to one of the exaust mani studs being broke and at that time I removed and replaced steel head gaskets. That combined with it having a stock ground cam the vacuum numbers should be higher wouldn't you say? With all factored in 15 hg should be about normal?

Don't forget, those new rings don't seat instantly. I wouldn't worry too much about the vacuum numbers until it has at least a couple thousand miles on it and the rings are worn in and sealing like they should, valves too. If it sounds good, runs nice and you feel good about it, if it was me I wouldn't spend much time chasing a number, I'd roll with it and have another go at it down the road after it has some time for everything to seat in.
 

gmbarker78

Farmall Cub
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
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476
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Location
Natural Bridge, VA
I also had to put another head on the motor due to one of the exaust mani studs being broke


I have heard of those tabs breaking, so the correct fix is to replace the whole head? Can the tab be welded back? I agree it should be fixed, it would be bad to just slap it back together and wonder why you can't get the exaust leak to go away.:no:
 

DavidWTravelallfan

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Wasnt aware that it was a fresh rebuild. Just drive it for several thousand. Good way to fix it is remove the vac gauge..LOL..At one time mine used to be 19 in park and 17 in drive at sea level in Norfolk Va where I used to live. That was back in 1980s. Ive had the heads off since then and now have aftermarket head gaskets on it with no machine work done. It still runs good.
 

Nichelob

Farmall Cub
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Jan 20, 2008
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Charlotte, NC
I have heard of those tabs breaking, so the correct fix is to replace the whole head? Can the tab be welded back? I agree it should be fixed, it would be bad to just slap it back together and wonder why you can't get the exaust leak to go away.:no:

I asked around about this and I think the only way to weld it is to bake it, which would probably require undressing the whole head. At which point, it's easier just to get a new head instead of paying labor to have it welded. It's a bummer. We've got copper manifold bolts and some special sauce Levi put on there so we can slide'em off easier next time without breaking another tab off. :oops:
 

oldironoffroad

High Wheeler
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Sep 22, 2007
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crossville,tn
Gary I can't remember the exact cost to have the head shop swap the guts out of the head that had good valves and such into another head and check it out , but seeing as how I didn't have the piece of the tab that broke in my possesion nor did Nick the options on how to fix it were limited anyway. I am sure if one was so inclined it could be brazed or welded back on, but if you are going to have to pull the head to have it fixed or fix it anyway having the head shop swap guts or check out and work another head should be about as cost effective.
To the guys who replied about the vacuum numbers thanks. I think me and Nick both decided the same. We are gonna put away tuning instruments for now and focus on finishing up wiring so we can get her broke in. She runs pretty smooth now so back to work we go.
 

Ted H

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Jan 30, 2005
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Gray Court SC
When I was rebuilding the 392 in my Scout I found one of the tabs broken. Since I didn`t have another 392 IC lying around I decided to have it fixed. I`ve got about 2k on it now and it seems to be holding up fine.
 

gmbarker78

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Natural Bridge, VA
Gary I can't remember the exact cost to have the head shop swap the guts out of the head that had good valves and such into another head and check it out , but seeing as how I didn't have the piece of the tab that broke in my possesion nor did Nick the options on how to fix it were limited anyway. I am sure if one was so inclined it could be brazed or welded back on, but if you are going to have to pull the head to have it fixed or fix it anyway having the head shop swap guts or check out and work another head should be about as cost effective.

It sucks not to be able use a head because of that tab but it does make sense, especially since the tab is MIA. I think you should have just tricked Nick by slapping a nut and bolt on the manifold.:D Just kidding Nick.
 

Nichelob

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It sucks not to be able use a head because of that tab but it does make sense, especially since the tab is MIA. I think you should have just tricked Nick by slapping a nut and bolt on the manifold.:D Just kidding Nick.

Actually, I was open to that idea when I was first researching, but I was told that the head had to be baked to weld on cast iron. Of course, this was back in 1949, so technology may have advanced since then. :wheelchair:
 

DavidWTravelallfan

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Run a long bolt through the manifold with a stout peice of medal wedged between the end of manifold and part of head next to where the tab is broke. Put a nut on it and tigneten bolt up enougth to make bracket tight which will seal end of manifold. Not sure if it will work, but worth a try. It dosent take much torque to seal a manifold gasket, expecially a fiber one. I had a bolt broke off on mine at same spot many yrs ago. I just used the other 4 bolts. It still sealed ok with a very small if any leak. Eventually I fixed the broken bolt. Now I keep antiseize on all exhaust bolts so they come out easly.
 

J.J.

Lives in an IH Dealership
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Dec 14, 2003
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Castalian Springs, TN
This is quite the situation. On my 392 in my 100, someone in its past life welded the tab on (pass rear), and although they did a good job, the break is into the exhasut port. It doesnt seal right. I have to replace the manifold gasket about once a year, using header gaskets. Eventually I will just replace the head and be done with it.

Hope yours is better than mine, Ted sounds like his is OK.


JJ
 

Dennis Bernth

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This is quite the situation. On my 392 in my 100, someone in its past life welded the tab on (pass rear), and although they did a good job, the break is into the exhasut port. It doesnt seal right. I have to replace the manifold gasket about once a year, using header gaskets. Eventually I will just replace the head and be done with it.

Hope yours is better than mine, Ted sounds like his is OK.


JJ

Try a little Permatex Ultra Copper RTV silicone next time. It's high temp, I had a Dodge pickup that had two bolts busted off in the head and I was too lazy to try to drill them out. So, a nice layer of the Ultra Copper on the exhaust manifold, put a couple of studs in to be able to slide the manifold on straight, then just pretty much hand snugged the bolts down to where the RTV just started to 'squish' out. Waited a day, then snugged it down, drove the truck for about three years and it was still holding when I sold it. Not a fan of RTV for most stuff, but sometimes it has it's place.
 

oldironoffroad

High Wheeler
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Sep 22, 2007
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crossville,tn
Nick's rig is a driver. Got some other pics to load , but will post the videos for now.

[youtube]WCCykWHR3EI[/youtube]

and it made it back. Power steering pump is whining abit in this video, but it was just low on fluid after all the air had bled out.

[youtube]yIDwubIGHC0[/youtube]
 
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