Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
If ya'll have been paying attention to the other build threads, you've noticed that I've been updating them like a mad-man. Well, this thread is next, so stay tuned.
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MiniBuild #15 ~ Kirk A.
- Thread starter Damian Grihalva
- Start date
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
Okay, lets see what we can do...
Okay. Previously, we covered the new dash panel that we'll be putting into this Scout. We designed it, and had it custom built using a CNC waterjet. Came out great, and the gauges look very good, but lets put a shine on that panel before installing it.
First, we use a 'roll-lock' wheel normally used to clean up gasket surfaces. This doesn't normally remove material, but with aluminum, its enough to 'buff' it.
With it on the end of a drill, we simply hold it to the aluminum and make a series of circles till we get the desired effect. Some guys use over-lapping circles in a rigid pattern, I like the randomness of free-hand.
Above is the unfinished panel, below is the glove-box door already done.
Then they were sent to coat for some good old-fashion clear glossy powdercoating ~ this will make them easy to keep clean and shiny!
Walla!~
Moving right along, lets get into the tires. We've showed you guys the rim/tire combination before mounting things, lets take a look at where they are now.
Its nice knowing the GM at the local 4WheelParts. He hooks me up pretty good with 'odd' services ~ as he knows which techs will work 'on the side'. Since Vegas is getting Staun's internal beadlocks, things can get complicated, so I take them to the guys who've done them 1000x. Since 4WP has the machines necessary to drill the rim, install the Staun, mount the tire and then balance the rim/tires its simply cheaper to send them off to have done. Had these been traditional beadlocks, we could have done them at the shop...
Regardless, having given them a week or two to do them, I went an picked them up.
I love driving with big tires in the back of the T-ette ~ dont' know why, just do...
In case you guys had forgotten, Vegas is loaded with some BFGs!
Actual KRAWLERs to be exact!
Unlike the look-alike MT/KM-2's the Krawlers were developed for hard-core wheeling. The thread blocks are thicker, and the voids between the lugs are wider. They may be a little louder on the road, but they'll hook up extremely well off-road.
Mmmmmm ~
Okay. Previously, we covered the new dash panel that we'll be putting into this Scout. We designed it, and had it custom built using a CNC waterjet. Came out great, and the gauges look very good, but lets put a shine on that panel before installing it.
First, we use a 'roll-lock' wheel normally used to clean up gasket surfaces. This doesn't normally remove material, but with aluminum, its enough to 'buff' it.
With it on the end of a drill, we simply hold it to the aluminum and make a series of circles till we get the desired effect. Some guys use over-lapping circles in a rigid pattern, I like the randomness of free-hand.
Above is the unfinished panel, below is the glove-box door already done.
Then they were sent to coat for some good old-fashion clear glossy powdercoating ~ this will make them easy to keep clean and shiny!
Walla!~
Moving right along, lets get into the tires. We've showed you guys the rim/tire combination before mounting things, lets take a look at where they are now.
Its nice knowing the GM at the local 4WheelParts. He hooks me up pretty good with 'odd' services ~ as he knows which techs will work 'on the side'. Since Vegas is getting Staun's internal beadlocks, things can get complicated, so I take them to the guys who've done them 1000x. Since 4WP has the machines necessary to drill the rim, install the Staun, mount the tire and then balance the rim/tires its simply cheaper to send them off to have done. Had these been traditional beadlocks, we could have done them at the shop...
Regardless, having given them a week or two to do them, I went an picked them up.
I love driving with big tires in the back of the T-ette ~ dont' know why, just do...
In case you guys had forgotten, Vegas is loaded with some BFGs!
Actual KRAWLERs to be exact!
Unlike the look-alike MT/KM-2's the Krawlers were developed for hard-core wheeling. The thread blocks are thicker, and the voids between the lugs are wider. They may be a little louder on the road, but they'll hook up extremely well off-road.
Mmmmmm ~
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
Set of five, just waiting for some fun!
Meanwhile, there has been much more important things being done to the Scout than just getting the wheels/tires mounted up. Here's Dylan ~ a recent graduate from WyoTech and local Scout nut who wanted to see if I needed any help around the shop. Just like Jayson in the Sonny build, we certainly put him to work!
Previously we had removed the transfercase from Vegas so that we could get it rebuilt. But Kirk had something else in mind for the powertrain. Instead of keeping the T19 close w/ Dana20, we found a T19 WIDE w/ Dana300 from a 1980 Scout Terra deisel for sale and we just couldn't pass that up. So we changed things up a bit, and with the trans supported..
We removed the Close-box....
Although its a little dirty, this thing is in surprisingly good shape.
Then the whole clutch assembly was taken out to get freshen'd up a bit.
Wouldn't you know, Par for course! Like the rest of the Scout, the clutch was still in real decent shape.
But seriously, even though it would have 'worked' ~ its best to do the clutch while you have everything taken apart. A few hundred extra, but it'll be completely rebuilt and in 100% working order this way.
Besides, doing the clutch while you have the trans out is MUCH better than putting it all back together then finding out the clutch wasn't as good as it looked.
More updates soon. LOTS of progress, so we'll have to keep things rockin...
Meanwhile, there has been much more important things being done to the Scout than just getting the wheels/tires mounted up. Here's Dylan ~ a recent graduate from WyoTech and local Scout nut who wanted to see if I needed any help around the shop. Just like Jayson in the Sonny build, we certainly put him to work!
Previously we had removed the transfercase from Vegas so that we could get it rebuilt. But Kirk had something else in mind for the powertrain. Instead of keeping the T19 close w/ Dana20, we found a T19 WIDE w/ Dana300 from a 1980 Scout Terra deisel for sale and we just couldn't pass that up. So we changed things up a bit, and with the trans supported..
We removed the Close-box....
Although its a little dirty, this thing is in surprisingly good shape.
Then the whole clutch assembly was taken out to get freshen'd up a bit.
Wouldn't you know, Par for course! Like the rest of the Scout, the clutch was still in real decent shape.
But seriously, even though it would have 'worked' ~ its best to do the clutch while you have everything taken apart. A few hundred extra, but it'll be completely rebuilt and in 100% working order this way.
Besides, doing the clutch while you have the trans out is MUCH better than putting it all back together then finding out the clutch wasn't as good as it looked.
More updates soon. LOTS of progress, so we'll have to keep things rockin...
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
Well, lets keep this thread going shall we?
Its time to start considering what we are doing with Vegas. Vegas will be an 800 version of Cringer ~ so its going to need to get power steering, coil-over front suspension, and several other things that will require ROOM in the engine bay. That means, we've got to get the fenders off this thing so that we can work more easier...
Front clip coming off...
Perhaps I never really notice how little room is in a Scout 800. Check this next picture out...
With the built 392 in there, there's no room at all in there for the stuff we've got to add. So it was decided to loose the inner fenders in the same fashion of Extreme Buildup 2 and 3.
So we took a measurement from two easy spots in the engine bay to get the measurement for our 'tubular' inner fender replacements.
With the measurement written on the radiator support (which will stay) we can make sure we re-create it when everything goes back together.
Then Dylan started cutting.
Man its such a clean Scout, it was kinda painful to do this...
Progress?
Well, the goal is to retain as many of the stock fender and front clip bolt holes as possible. So we manuvered the cuts to retain as many as possible.
Here's it is without the inner fenders.
Its time to start considering what we are doing with Vegas. Vegas will be an 800 version of Cringer ~ so its going to need to get power steering, coil-over front suspension, and several other things that will require ROOM in the engine bay. That means, we've got to get the fenders off this thing so that we can work more easier...
Front clip coming off...
Perhaps I never really notice how little room is in a Scout 800. Check this next picture out...
With the built 392 in there, there's no room at all in there for the stuff we've got to add. So it was decided to loose the inner fenders in the same fashion of Extreme Buildup 2 and 3.
So we took a measurement from two easy spots in the engine bay to get the measurement for our 'tubular' inner fender replacements.
With the measurement written on the radiator support (which will stay) we can make sure we re-create it when everything goes back together.
Then Dylan started cutting.
Man its such a clean Scout, it was kinda painful to do this...
Progress?
Well, the goal is to retain as many of the stock fender and front clip bolt holes as possible. So we manuvered the cuts to retain as many as possible.
Here's it is without the inner fenders.
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
Just so you guys know, we didn't JUST start cutting this thing apart. Even if you are opposed to it, there are ways to do it that'll keep the structural integrity of the 'inner' body. First and foremost, you'll notice that we purposely didn't cut the stock seams. Keeping them intact, means the body is as strong as it has always been.
Even in the front, the seams were left ~ even when it meant leaving 1/2"-1" on the radiator support.
How much room is there now?
Plenty.
Here's another shot.
But that begs the question, we just cut out a bunch of metal, how are we going to 'sure' it back up?
Well, lets show you. After making some templates with cardboard, there's Dylan cutting out reinforcing plates for both the radiator support and tub.
Once cut, the plates were held up to the body...
...and we used a pen to mark the coverage.
Then we wire-wheeled the paint off, and lined back up the plates.
And started welding.
For some reason, the stock rubber 'seal' didn't like the welder much.
Even in the front, the seams were left ~ even when it meant leaving 1/2"-1" on the radiator support.
How much room is there now?
Plenty.
Here's another shot.
But that begs the question, we just cut out a bunch of metal, how are we going to 'sure' it back up?
Well, lets show you. After making some templates with cardboard, there's Dylan cutting out reinforcing plates for both the radiator support and tub.
Once cut, the plates were held up to the body...
...and we used a pen to mark the coverage.
Then we wire-wheeled the paint off, and lined back up the plates.
And started welding.
For some reason, the stock rubber 'seal' didn't like the welder much.
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
Here's the way the welding turned out. I have to say that I'm always impressed with how well Scout sheet metal stands up to welding. Seriously, if there were a .... lesser vehicle.... you couldn't simply weld plate to the body like this.
That is the 100th picture in this thread!
Here's the plate on the tub side. Notice on both plates we contoured them to give the best coverage.
Then comes the tube....
This takes quite some time to makes sure you match the original measurement between the tub and the radiator support. But its extremely important you do. If you don't, the fenders won't bolt back on!
Welding in.... Radiator side.
...and tub side.
And now we have a PERFECT ground strap for the tub and radiator support ~ after all, there's another side to do!
Here's some pictures of how much room the stock inner fenders take up. It's crazy how.... in the way ... these things are.
Another shot. Boy, looking at these....really makes you think about how much stuff we'll be replacing/upgrading on this old Scout.
Speaking of which, we are going to be removing pretty much everything in the engine bay, if anyone needs anything we won't be using ~ say the good MasterCylinder and Proportioning Valve, or the stock V8 steering box...or whatever, let us know! Otherwise they are going to the recyclers.
That is the 100th picture in this thread!
Here's the plate on the tub side. Notice on both plates we contoured them to give the best coverage.
Then comes the tube....
This takes quite some time to makes sure you match the original measurement between the tub and the radiator support. But its extremely important you do. If you don't, the fenders won't bolt back on!
Welding in.... Radiator side.
...and tub side.
And now we have a PERFECT ground strap for the tub and radiator support ~ after all, there's another side to do!
Here's some pictures of how much room the stock inner fenders take up. It's crazy how.... in the way ... these things are.
Another shot. Boy, looking at these....really makes you think about how much stuff we'll be replacing/upgrading on this old Scout.
Speaking of which, we are going to be removing pretty much everything in the engine bay, if anyone needs anything we won't be using ~ say the good MasterCylinder and Proportioning Valve, or the stock V8 steering box...or whatever, let us know! Otherwise they are going to the recyclers.
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
Lets take a look at how much room we've opened up in the engine bay by removing the inner fenders. From the front....
...you can really see the difference. Before the inner fenders took EVERYTHING from the fender to the headers. Now we've got plenty of room for any add-ons that Kirk wants.
From the side you can really see what kinda room this mod 'open's up for you...
..but you probably noticed the next problem.
Yes, the frame has two big problems. First, its filthy with 40+ years of dirt and grime. Second, those stock shock and bump-stop mounts aren't just ugly, they're in the way.
Petie, the Plasma Torch, was brought into play here. Goal, cut everything off the frame w/out cutting into the frame...
Then Dylan ground it down for quite a while.
its amazing how long it takes to clean up a frame, but time spent here is well worth the investment.
Looking much better as we prep for paint.
For now, we're just using some self-etching primer. This stuff will keep the rust away and can easily be sanded off when we're ready to weld on the shock and steering mounts.
The other side got the same treatment. First came cutting and grinding.
Then came primer...
...you can really see the difference. Before the inner fenders took EVERYTHING from the fender to the headers. Now we've got plenty of room for any add-ons that Kirk wants.
From the side you can really see what kinda room this mod 'open's up for you...
..but you probably noticed the next problem.
Yes, the frame has two big problems. First, its filthy with 40+ years of dirt and grime. Second, those stock shock and bump-stop mounts aren't just ugly, they're in the way.
Petie, the Plasma Torch, was brought into play here. Goal, cut everything off the frame w/out cutting into the frame...
Then Dylan ground it down for quite a while.
its amazing how long it takes to clean up a frame, but time spent here is well worth the investment.
Looking much better as we prep for paint.
For now, we're just using some self-etching primer. This stuff will keep the rust away and can easily be sanded off when we're ready to weld on the shock and steering mounts.
The other side got the same treatment. First came cutting and grinding.
Then came primer...
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
Honestly, all this cutting isn't required for the XLC conversion. If you want to keep your inner fenders, then technically all you're required to cut out is what needs to be removed for mounting the suspension mounts, such as the shock hoops and track-bar mount.
However, on Vegas, its not just getting the XLC system. Its getting a host of things. Including power steering. And not just PS, but Ram-assist steering. So lets start covering that.
First, we needed a good power steering box. I use the Scout II saginaw boxes, but you can use whatever box your heart desires. Considering Misty (MiniBuild #12) is getting parted out (mostly), I had this fine working Scout II box available, so I used it.
Vegas has a 392 V8 in it already, Misty has a 345. Since they both share power steering mounts, we are using Misty's power steering pump and brackets too.
But as for the box. This thing has looked better ~ You can always tell when Scouts' had power steering issues. The box is normally covered in grime.
The problem comes when your pushing big tires, the steering heats up, causing the fluid to expand. This expansion causes it to over-flow from the reservoir ~ which literally covers the box. While wheeling, the dust kicked up from the tires, mixes with the fluid, creates a paste and when dried, looks like this.
So we'll be cleaning it back up. Actually, *I* won't be cleaning it up. Since we're using Ram-assist steering, the box needs to be relatively disassembled (aka, the pitman arm taken off) and sent off for porting. I use Matt @ WestTexas Offroad (maker of the famous Red-Neck Ram) for my steering box rebuilds and porting. Sure, there are some out there ~ even within the Scout world ~ that do it, I've always had great service and product from him. So I'd rather use who I trust, and I trust Matt.
Since it gets taken apart when they port it, we opt to have them completely rebuilt as well. Yes, its a little more expensive, but it'll be 100% when doen. But first, the pitman arm.
To take the pitman arm off you just need to take off the nut, and pull it off. Easy enough right? Ya...you wish. Go ahead and beat on it for a while. Try swearing if it makes you feel better ~ but in the end, the only way to take it off, is with a pitman arm puller. Which looks like this......
Install it like so...
And use an impact to operate the puller.
Yes, you can TRY to do it with a wrench on the puller. But good luck holding the box while you do. Seriously, you'll spend 2 minutes with the puller and an impact ~ or 1+ hours with a wrench and hammer.
With the box taken apart, we put it in a few trash bags (to keep it from leaking in shipment) and put it in a box and sent it to Matt. While we wait for it's return, lets move on to the suspension.
Please note, and I'll say it again later, but please note that this is the first 800 specific XLC installation we've done. Up to this date, this conversion has been used on Scout IIs. So there are a couple things that you'll actually see being done, where if you get a kit, they are already pre-assembled/welded.
That said. One of the hardest things to do when putting together an XLC system and installing it is proper frame preparation. I choose to remove all mounts from the frame and grind them down as seen previously in the build. However, its not enough JUST to remove the mounts that occupy the same space as the frame sleeves. You really have to smooth them out. My frame sleeves are pretty exact when it comes to fitment. So if you leave welding nubs on the frame left over from the mounts you just removed, you'll have to FORCE the sleeve over them. On the driver side I spent a good 2 hours BEATING the frame sleeve on. And man, it was NOT FUN.
For the passenger side, I decided to spend some more time with the grinder. Here's the problem. Even after the old mounts are removed and smoothed, you have to take into account the factory's weld job. The box frame we have is actually two C-channels welded on top of each other with the "C" shape cupping each other. Take a look.
You can see that although the welds are fairly smooth, they also are thicker in some places than in others. This makes a 'high' point which, like on the driver side, I had to BEAT the sleeve over. This time I took an additional 5 minutes of grinding and knocked down all those high-points. With the extra grinding the frame didn't look too much different than it did when I simply removed and ground-smooth the mounts.
But when I went to slide the frame sleeve on...
... it was a totally different story. The sleeve litterally went right on, and ALL THE WAY on. It was awesome, insead of using the c-clamp to hold one side in place while I beat the other side, I had to use them to keep the sleeve from literally falling off.
However, on Vegas, its not just getting the XLC system. Its getting a host of things. Including power steering. And not just PS, but Ram-assist steering. So lets start covering that.
First, we needed a good power steering box. I use the Scout II saginaw boxes, but you can use whatever box your heart desires. Considering Misty (MiniBuild #12) is getting parted out (mostly), I had this fine working Scout II box available, so I used it.
Vegas has a 392 V8 in it already, Misty has a 345. Since they both share power steering mounts, we are using Misty's power steering pump and brackets too.
But as for the box. This thing has looked better ~ You can always tell when Scouts' had power steering issues. The box is normally covered in grime.
The problem comes when your pushing big tires, the steering heats up, causing the fluid to expand. This expansion causes it to over-flow from the reservoir ~ which literally covers the box. While wheeling, the dust kicked up from the tires, mixes with the fluid, creates a paste and when dried, looks like this.
So we'll be cleaning it back up. Actually, *I* won't be cleaning it up. Since we're using Ram-assist steering, the box needs to be relatively disassembled (aka, the pitman arm taken off) and sent off for porting. I use Matt @ WestTexas Offroad (maker of the famous Red-Neck Ram) for my steering box rebuilds and porting. Sure, there are some out there ~ even within the Scout world ~ that do it, I've always had great service and product from him. So I'd rather use who I trust, and I trust Matt.
Since it gets taken apart when they port it, we opt to have them completely rebuilt as well. Yes, its a little more expensive, but it'll be 100% when doen. But first, the pitman arm.
To take the pitman arm off you just need to take off the nut, and pull it off. Easy enough right? Ya...you wish. Go ahead and beat on it for a while. Try swearing if it makes you feel better ~ but in the end, the only way to take it off, is with a pitman arm puller. Which looks like this......
Install it like so...
And use an impact to operate the puller.
Yes, you can TRY to do it with a wrench on the puller. But good luck holding the box while you do. Seriously, you'll spend 2 minutes with the puller and an impact ~ or 1+ hours with a wrench and hammer.
With the box taken apart, we put it in a few trash bags (to keep it from leaking in shipment) and put it in a box and sent it to Matt. While we wait for it's return, lets move on to the suspension.
Please note, and I'll say it again later, but please note that this is the first 800 specific XLC installation we've done. Up to this date, this conversion has been used on Scout IIs. So there are a couple things that you'll actually see being done, where if you get a kit, they are already pre-assembled/welded.
That said. One of the hardest things to do when putting together an XLC system and installing it is proper frame preparation. I choose to remove all mounts from the frame and grind them down as seen previously in the build. However, its not enough JUST to remove the mounts that occupy the same space as the frame sleeves. You really have to smooth them out. My frame sleeves are pretty exact when it comes to fitment. So if you leave welding nubs on the frame left over from the mounts you just removed, you'll have to FORCE the sleeve over them. On the driver side I spent a good 2 hours BEATING the frame sleeve on. And man, it was NOT FUN.
For the passenger side, I decided to spend some more time with the grinder. Here's the problem. Even after the old mounts are removed and smoothed, you have to take into account the factory's weld job. The box frame we have is actually two C-channels welded on top of each other with the "C" shape cupping each other. Take a look.
You can see that although the welds are fairly smooth, they also are thicker in some places than in others. This makes a 'high' point which, like on the driver side, I had to BEAT the sleeve over. This time I took an additional 5 minutes of grinding and knocked down all those high-points. With the extra grinding the frame didn't look too much different than it did when I simply removed and ground-smooth the mounts.
But when I went to slide the frame sleeve on...
... it was a totally different story. The sleeve litterally went right on, and ALL THE WAY on. It was awesome, insead of using the c-clamp to hold one side in place while I beat the other side, I had to use them to keep the sleeve from literally falling off.
70binderPA
Binder Driver
love it
xyz12383318
Farmall Cub
Is there a diference between the Scout diesel tranny and the gasser? Is the flywheel the same? Do they interchange?
Mark B 70SR2
High Wheeler
I'm amazed at how much room that inner fender replacement opened up!
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
With my standard disclaimer that you need to double-check the clutch splines and all, they interchange.
Speaking of which, the tranny guy called and the trans/t-case are ready for pickup. The trans needed new syncro's and such, so we had a complete rebuild done. The D300 was in fine shape, so we only had the seals replaced and it properly put back together. Hoping to get things back and installed soon.
Speaking of which, the tranny guy called and the trans/t-case are ready for pickup. The trans needed new syncro's and such, so we had a complete rebuild done. The D300 was in fine shape, so we only had the seals replaced and it properly put back together. Hoping to get things back and installed soon.
Hammie
Farmall Cub
So... anything to add or any finished pics of this rig?? Its like watching a movie that ends right after the action packed fight scene!
Damian Grihalva
High Wheeler
I need to get FTP access to the site, we switched up hosting services and Eric's gotta let me in!
