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"lock-o-matic" vs. "auto-matic"

Todd J

Farmall Cub
What sucks about them, can you explain? I just aquired some on an axle and looking for info.

I already read the FAQ!!!

"resisting booty fab" is the ability to walk away from the project when you know you can "make" it work.
ie. ten inch shackles, coat hanger for a 727 kickdown kickdown linkage, 1/4" flatbar welded to diff for SOA spring perch, things like that :D
 

Erik VanRenselaar

Y-Block King
The L-O-M hublock is the earlier version, used on mid-'70's vehicles. The later '70s/1980 trucks used the Automatic hublocks. They both are made by Warn Industries and the later Automatic units are considered to have a slightly weaker internal manual actuating system. They use internal friction shoes to actuate (lock) the mechanism when torque is applied to the axleshafts. If you manually lock either style of hublocks, they act as regular hublocks. A main disadvantage of the auto type hublocks is that they can normally lock and unlock while operating them in the Free/Auto position. Another problem is the limited availability of internal parts for them.

They can be nice for occasional use in inclement weather or for a physically challenged driver.

When I installed a drop-in locker unit in my '76 Scout's front axle, I also replaced the Lock-O-Matic's with a set of Warn Premium hublocks. I figured the locker wouldn't work well with the auto hubs and I didn't want to trash a perfectly good pair of unique hublocks.
 

Will Marsh

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Todd J said:
Which of these hub types is favored and why?

TIA
I prefer the Loc-O-matics. Erik pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I like the option of pulling the stick and driving out of the ditch if I screw up and end up there. :D

That said, I ALWAYS lock them in if I'm going offroad or know I'll need 4wd.

I probably ought to say I hate them so I can buy more cheap. :) I'll take them off anyone's hands if they really don't want them. I have a couple sets of SII manual hubs to trade if someone wants to.

HTH,

Will Marsh
 

Special Ed

Binder Driver
Thanks for the explanation of "booty fab". Had a lock-o-matic go to pieces on a family vacation years ago. Ripped up the threads on the end of the spindle. Never really cared for the durability of any maker's auto hubs. Just my biased view. :eek:
 

Baradium

Lives in an IH Dealership
The newer ones you can lock in even if the splines aren't lined up (spring loaded). The manual locking portion is like any manual hub you'll find today.

The older ones are direct mechanical and if the splines on the axle don't line up with the splines on the hub, they won't engage and you won't be able to lock them in.
 

Todd J

Farmall Cub
If I read the FAQ correctly I think I have the Auto-Matic type. I figured if they were so unpopular strength was going to be the common problem. Sounds like they would be handy in the right scenerio.

Did I read somewhere that one or the other type could be converted to full manual type hub? If so which one.

Will, I will wander out to the shop when it cools off, I may want to trade if we have the right combo of parts for each other. I will E-mail if so.
 

GaryB

High Wheeler
Okay,

Auto hubs say: Auto & Lock
LOM say : Lock & Free

Question is, I have a 78 II, yet according to the FAQ & everyone it should have Auto's, but mine say Lock & Free. I also have one of those push/pull "Front axle lock" cables on my dash that is not hooked up (I have a 2 speed Dana 20). Is there any other way to tell which one is which? My build sheet doesn't really say, at least that I can tell.

Either way, I might do the upgrade too as I plan on dropping in a full locker up front.
 

WesV

Y-Block King
GaryB said:
Okay,

Auto hubs say: Auto & Lock
LOM say : Lock & Free

Question is, I have a 78 II, yet according to the FAQ & everyone it should have Auto's, but mine say Lock & Free. I also have one of those push/pull "Front axle lock" cables on my dash that is not hooked up (I have a 2 speed Dana 20). Is there any other way to tell which one is which? My build sheet doesn't really say, at least that I can tell.

Either way, I might do the upgrade too as I plan on dropping in a full locker up front.
Sounds like it is time to order a line set ticket from Super Scouts Specialist. I would guess that yours origninally came with the single speed transfer case and someone swapped in a d20
 

GaryB

High Wheeler
I have the original line ticket. It says Dana 20. I think the cable was there to fill a hole, as the cable doesn't leave the cab. I just want to know which hubs I got, would be nice to know in case I need to fix them.
 

nickl

Farmall Cub
GaryB said:
I have the original line ticket. It says Dana 20. I think the cable was there to fill a hole, as the cable doesn't leave the cab. I just want to know which hubs I got, would be nice to know in case I need to fix them.

On all the ones ive seen and in the pictures in the service manual.
Lock-o-Matics say "Lock-o-Matic" on them. Automatics say "Automatic" on them. Right in the middle of the dial.

Both can be easily converted to manual only by removing the friction shoes and/or the rollers and cage (if these parts are in good shape keep them or send them to me cause they arent made anymore).

If you do decide to trade for traditional manual hubs make sure you keep the round spindle nut and slotted washer with the automatics (or lock-o-matics). The automatic feature wont work without them.

I switched to Lock-o-Matics last winter and they worked great.

Nick
 

GaryB

High Wheeler
Mine have a little IH symbol in the middle, that's it. That's kind of why I'm unsure of which ones I have.
 

Baradium

Lives in an IH Dealership
GaryB said:
Mine have a little IH symbol in the middle, that's it. That's kind of why I'm unsure of which ones I have.

Is the knob always easy to turn, or does it get hard sometimes?

That gives hints at least as far as which kind it is.

In manual mode they are supposed to be as strong as a normal locking hub. It's while in auto mode that they aren't as strong.
 

GaryB

High Wheeler
I haven't driven it vey much to where I need to engage the hubs, but when I turn them (in the street) they get stiffer until they meet the 4X4 mark. Then when I release them (free) I hear a popping sound like a spring releasing. :confused: The only thing I can guess is that they are automatics with old style faces? I'm sure IH was just as good at using whatever was left over as the other makers are.

Unless somebody changed them out along the way. I'm the 3rd owner, but since all the 2nd owner did was buy it in New Mexico and drive it here and park it, I'm more or less the real 2nd owner. This thing still has the OEM heater hoses on it!
 

nickl

Farmall Cub
GaryB said:
Unless somebody changed them out along the way. I'm the 3rd owner, but since all the 2nd owner did was buy it in New Mexico and drive it here and park it, I'm more or less the real 2nd owner. This thing still has the OEM heater hoses on it!

What makes you think thet are automatic? Line set? It is vey possible thet someone changes them.

I have never seen one with no marks other than the little IH they either say "Locking hub" or "Lock-o-matic" or "Automatic". The Manual only hubs that were stock on my 79 looked completely different from the automatics. They have allen head screws holding the locking mechanism to the rest of the hub and short hex head bolts holding the hub to the wheel hub. the automatics lock-o-matics and early manuals have long hex head bolts holding both parts of the hub to the wheel hub. Note: all of them have a snap ring holding the inner part of the hub to the axle.

So if you have the allen head screws you have the newest manual only hub
If you dont have allens then I cant tell them apart without dissasembling one.

Nick
 

Baradium

Lives in an IH Dealership
My scout still had the IH heater hoses on it when I started working on it. I took it as a hint that it'd be a good idea to put new heater hoses on it. The fact that they had the IH on them was cool, but that meant they were also plenty old!

I did save them, thinking someone might want them, but that's it...
 

GaryB

High Wheeler
I have never seen one with no marks other than the little IH they either say "Locking hub" or "Lock-o-matic" or "Automatic".

Actually, after cleaning the hubs up some (damn New Mexico red clay!) they do say "locking hub" on them. The clay was packed in good and smoothed flush with the hub face so all you could see was the IH symbol :eek: In fact, somebody on EBay is selling some that are identical to mine:
HUBS

So I take it that these are plain jane manual locking hubs? Are these good?
 

Baradium

Lives in an IH Dealership
The automatic hub locking portion and the regular locking hubs are strong.

Both hub types are Warn hubs.
 

ihscoutlover

High Wheeler
To answer your questions regarding auto vs locking, they will say automatic or lock-o-matic. However, my 1979 rallye has a very different style of lock-o-matics on it. They are the kind with a large black spindle that you can turn with a gloved hand and still get it turned from free to lock. I personally would prefer the lock-o-matics over the automatics due to the fact you have better control over the lock-o-matics vs the automatics. I bought a set of warn
standard locking hubs off ebay for $40. They had about 300 miles on them and look hardly used. These run about $120, but are better designed than lock-o-matics and automatics because the internals are built much better. Any other questions and I will help you figure them out.

Jeff
 
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