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Lifter noise cold start

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tnscouter

Farmall Cub
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How much liter noise is normal for a 152? It goes away after about 5 seconds and when the psi starts going up. I have Rotella syn and a wix filter(canister). It sounds terrible. Once the pressure gets up the engine sounds like a sewing machine. Seems like a lot of wear from the 5 seconds with every start.
 

harvester_dad

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i wouldnt recomend running a full synthetic in a older vehicle a synthetic blend would be better for it also make sure you have a good "winter wieght" oil if the oil is to thick for cold tempetures it wont pump through the lifters untill warmed up and could cause various problems and effect the motors "breathing"
hope this helps
 

tnscouter

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Thanks but a full synthetic is what I use in all my vehicles. Synthetics in an old engine is just fine and my engine is newly rebuilt. Why do you think a blend is better? Where do you get your info?

Synthetic is not going to cause valve noise on startup
 

harvester_dad

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your right about it not causing noise it was just a recomendation how ever like i said make sure wieght is good or it wont pump up the lifters and i just found this on the internet if you search around there may be more infor but i was unaware the engine had been rebuilt therefore they synthetic or s.blend does not matter as much but any who
. Older vehicles with high mileage tend to have excessive mechanical wear in the engine, allowing for internal oil leakage. On vehicles with high mileage, it is not recommended to use full synthetic oil because it is thin and very free flowing, and use of it does (more often than not) result in internal oil combustion. I used full synthetic oil in a Plymouth Neon. After logging120K miles the car started to consume oil at an alarming rate. Concerned, I switched to a semi-synthetic oil that was more full-bodied and the consumption stopped. I logged another 30K miles and sold it. It's still running with over 200K miles today and it doesn't burn oil. Carmakers use full synthetics and semi synthetics in some of their engines today. In most cases, you will find that a synthetic lubricant is used when there's a high performance engine with tight engine tolerances, high compression, and high operating temperatures. Follow your owner's manual for motor oil recommendations. If you want to use synthetic oil and your car is still under warranty, check with your local dealer before switching to synthetic oil (just to make sure you're covered with the switch).
 

Jay Tabor

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no noise is normal.
lifters being noisy means dirt stuck in the lifter valve, so the lifter bleeds down faster than the others with no dirt stuck in them.- a loud clack clack clack...
its actually the rocker arm making the noise, lifter following the cam shaft rides silent- unless the cam/lifter is scored bad,
then it wont ever shut up..
see the lifter is being pushed on by the pushrod/rocker arm, and thats a lot of valve spring tension pushing on the lifter cup, when lifter is pumped full of oil, and any dirt holding the valve open, causes quick bleed off of the oil filled lifter.
new engine-- soon after rebuild . .?
wellll you could change the oil and see whats up with that,
I've found that certain brand filters some frams, some amsoil filters for some unknown reason lose some of their oil while engine is off- this on IH V8s with filters pointed straight up and the ones mounted on a 45* angle pointed up for the scout filter adaptors> shouldnt happen but did . . causing all sorts of noise on start up till filter filled up.. drain back valve not-withstanding- the oil is held in a filter with the filter pointing up so how does it drain oil out? unless some sort of siphon action going on when i wasnt looking . . .
other than that its dirt in the lifter...
trouble is its fairly fresh syn.oil and youd hate to dump it so soon.
I had one that drove me crazy...
theres always run some atf in the oll before changing it, atf has worked real well. for me, in lots of engines.high detergents, thin fluid gets into all sortsa places easily..
mineral spirits might be an option too. but its more drastic than atf- might affect the neoprene seals and who wants that!
even some 5 qts of 10 wt oil run for an hour or so idleing, drain, then switch back to syn.oil.

its more bothersome noise, a lifter that isnt pumped full of oil actually means less wear to the lifter/cam and rocker arm- no full v/spring tension on it . .
you could pull v/cover and on start up look/feel for loose r/arm. THEN pull r/arm assy and pull lifter out, pull it apart and clean it thoroughly, stuff it back in, a lot of work . .
thems your choices . .
I run syn. oil in all my engines, most all were worn and not new when switching to syn oil. ones got 375 thou on it, been running syn since 90k on that engine, hasnt hurt a thing . . nor will it . .
syn oil flows much better than any mineral petroleum base oil, no matter the sae viscosity rating.hot or cold . .
 

Uncle Eddie

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Mine makes the same noise sometimes if I goose the throttle to start her up. I'm sure someone will chime in on an oil weight that will help... however you could always instal an ignition switch that would allow you to crank the engine over a couple times without spark allowing the oil pressure to build up before it runs.
 

Thomas

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How much liter noise is normal for a 152? It goes away after about 5 seconds and when the psi starts going up. I have Rotella syn and a wix filter(canister). It sounds terrible. Once the pressure gets up the engine sounds like a sewing machine. Seems like a lot of wear from the 5 seconds with every start.
---K, most lifters in our IH bairn are hydraulic. There is a lifter body, a bore in the lifter body that houses a return spring and a lifter piston/plunger, that has a check valve on the bottom. Above the Plunger is a socket. A circlip holds the parts together when assembled. Not only must oil be present to keep the lifters full/primed, but also, it must be thin enough to work between the surfaces. Check out this page. Not IH, but similar in design & pretty thorough in illustration & description. Also some MP3 files for you to listen to... lol. I haven't checked em out.

---The oil if it "leaks down" will need to have the air replaced with oil. Clean, working lifters and correct bore diameter in relation to lifter wall is the only thing that will prevent this. Too heavy an oil just makes it worse, especially in winter temps.

---There's nothing wrong with running a full synthetic in an older engine, unless the engine is dirty internally and it might be cleaned too fast, plugging filters, dislodging carbons and sending them toward wear surfaces or where they can tear seals as well as cleaning sludge from around damaged seals; But hey, finding a leak, due to the damaged seal leaking once it's clean, solves a problem doesn't it; And while thicker oil might fix the leak, it doesn't repair the problem, nor does a thicker than specified oil help an engine do anything more than wear more rapidly. There are issues with using a diesel oil in worn engines having blow-by. The detergents can cause deposits in the combustion chamber... we also aren't suppose to use detergent oils in our engines, but who has listened to that in 10 years... besides me when Castrol HD was a good oil?

---What weight is your oil? It did get quite cold this year, still is... and if you just did a change with 5W-40, I would venture to say that 40 is still a bit heavy for winter. IIRC, winter months call for a 30 weight. I have always ran 30 weight in winter and 40 weight in spring/summer/fall when a heavier oil is better vs heat.

---There is no shelved, 2007+, conventional diesel* oil that I have seen, that has an SM(1.0) or lower rating or that is specified for use with pre-1993 gasoline engines, so if you're running Rotella T6 Synthetic, you're doing alright... AFAIK. That can change once we're oil-savvy enough to discover a chemical in the new oils that causes concern... or once we get to that point in time where it happens to many and we say "it broke down early" rather than "what do you expect from a 500k mile truck?".

---For reading pleasure, here's the start page for Shell Lubricants for PDS/TDS & MSDS. The TDS for T6 shows as being approved for SH, SJ & SL as well as the dreaded SM. Now that I have found their vault, when I have time, I will dig and look further at their T5, but I will call their Tech department and discuss with their lab rat, the key principles we all wish to know about.

---FWIW, there was no data under "passenger cars" when I searched.
 

tnscouter

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So right now it is just an annoying noise and not causing any major engine damage, right. I am going to run it til the next oil change and try some Marvel.

I was thinking it might be normal because of the old style canister oil filter. I have a spin on adapter I haven't installed yet. Do you think the newer filter will help keep pressure in the top of the engine?
 

ScoutBoy66

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Sweet Home, OR
I had a 65 Scout 80 with HORRIBLE Rocker Arm/ lifter noise.
So what i did is i switched it too the spin on filter. Then I got me 5qts of 10w-30 napa brand oil. Then 1 Quart of Power punch (About 10$) its this thick slimey ooze. But by George it got that engine running Brand new again i swear. I can keep my foot in it all day long. The power punch is basically just a thick slime that stays on the engine top end to help w/ cold starts/ and bottle says helps seal Rings as well. But who really knows. :cornfused:
 

IH64Scout

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I had a 65 Scout 80 with HORRIBLE Rocker Arm/ lifter noise.
So what i did is i switched it too the spin on filter. Then I got me 5qts of 10w-30 napa brand oil. Then 1 Quart of Power punch (About 10$) its this thick slimey ooze. But by George it got that engine running Brand new again i swear. I can keep my foot in it all day long. The power punch is basically just a thick slime that stays on the engine top end to help w/ cold starts/ and bottle says helps seal Rings as well. But who really knows. :cornfused:

sounds like the same stuff as lucas?

-Jon
 

IH64Scout

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take it for a looonnng run on the highway where it'll get good and hot. i've had that clear up some engine "crud".

-Jon
 

ScoutBoy66

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Yeah kinda same stuff as Lucas. I like it, the Rednecks in my Area Swear by it.. so it must be good. but i guess as the saying goes.. "Choose you're Poison." (scouts) :4x4:
I Also Run it in my diesel Benz. I think it does good for the motor (4cyl Diesel) :)
 

Eric VanBuren

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I have the Lucas Syn additive added to my Rotella 6. I think it might just be one lifter. I am going to run this oil and Lucas for a while and see what happens.

Adding the Lucas sort of negated the switch to a 5-40 oil as the Lucas stuff it very viscous when cold.
 

Darrell Tuxworth

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I read somewhere in my service manual that the occasional lifter knock at cold start is normal as long as it quiets down after a few seconds of running. This is from the lifter bleeding down from the valve spring pressure forcing the oil out of the lifter...
Granted it should not happen all of the time and not last for long when it does.
Darrell
 

Doc Stewart

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"There's nothing wrong with running a full synthetic in an older engine, unless the engine is dirty internally and it might be cleaned too fast, plugging filters, dislodging carbons and sending them toward wear surfaces or where they can tear seals as well as cleaning sludge from around damaged seals."

I have heard of this but have yet to see it or hear a first-person experience.

Anybody?
 

Doc Stewart

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"we also aren't suppose to use detergent oils in our engines"

The SV8 was designed before the wide spread use of detergent oils. I have not seen any official reference that says not to use detergent oils.

Using 30 wgt non detergent oil 'because that was the oil the engine was designed for' denigrates 50 years of oil research and development. Use then old junk if you wish. I will take advantage of modern lubricants.
 
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