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H-84 Refrigerator part source, or a "junkyard" for appliances

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Snick

Farmall Cub
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
13
Points
3
Location
Virginia
First off , if that refrigerator is still working; you need to take steps to protect it AND your house. That wiring, at least the exposed stuff, is dangerously close to a short circuit condition. The insulation is just too rotten to deal with, and if I was there; I would totally rewire the fridge for you. If the compressor start components still work, and it seems like they do, you're golden and leave well enough alone. The compressor doesn't look bad itself on the terminations, maybe just rewire to the compressor leads. Those extra leads in the picture can be anything. A thermostat, a mullion heater, or a light in the door could be part of the circuit.
You do not want the compressor to run forever, it needs to cycle. Freezers especially were forced to take at least a 15 minute break every 6 to 8 hours through use of a timer. You won't see the timers in 1950s models so much , but as the use and lifestyle changed, they were very important by the 1970s.

R12 is still available, legally. Practically: no one carries it or much at all. The cost is so high for a jug, and the demand so low that many shop owners don't see a short term ROI on having the stuff, plus some places have a business inventory tax so there's that. What I'm saying is R12 is rare, but not impossible. The next is service. A hermetic system such as yours was routinely serviced and charged years ago. It was my day job for 20 years and we had tools for such. It's not hard, but there is a technique. I do not know the field today, and I don't know what today's techs know. You can weigh the charge, or use a frost line.

Randall's gasket idea may work for you. I don't think so much for freezers, but fridges may work okay. You can check your gasket one of two ways. My favorite is the dollar bill test. Put a dollar on the jamb and close the door. A good seal will give slight resistance when you pull the dollar out. No resistance usually means no contact or a gap. Another is a chalk test. Take some blue carpenter's chalk and coat the gasket. Shut the door, then open it. Wherever the gasket contacts the jamb, there will be a blue line or mark.
Any advice on replacing those wires? Especially inside the fridge itself and at the compressor side of things. Compressor still works as the fridge was cold when i got home. And i thought this was a sealed system so no recharge/service?

Got new wires for the condenser itself which ill put in on my next day off
 
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Greg R

Lives in an IH Dealership
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
5,408
Points
113
Location
Lebanon, OR
The refrigerant side is a sealed, hermetic, system. It means there's no access ports or valves for service which translates into supposedly no leaks and lower manufacturing cost. There are tools for servicing these systems so they are not high and dry beyond repair, charging, or any other service.

You need to get familiar with schematics, refrigerator wiring in general, wiring practice, and Ohm's Law for starters. You might get lucky doing one wire at a time to keep track, and keeping track of what's hot and what's neutral.
 

Snick

Farmall Cub
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
13
Points
3
Location
Virginia
Speaking of which, PLEASE correct me if i am wrong in ANY way, the thermostat needs 2 wires, one directly from the hot plug, then another going to the compressor so if its open (too cold) its off but if its closed (too hot) its on, so wire hot from the new wires directly into the thermostat, then back to the compressor (it uses 3.3 OR 3.6 amps per the info plate so about 400 watts, which isnt that much), boom the thermostat problem is solved, then for the light in the fridge wire the door switch directly into the hot wire leading to the thermostat, so when that circuit is open (door closed) no light but circuit is closed (door open) theres light. Thermostat doesnt need a ground since all that does is allow or disallow flow of electricity, but the light does as the electricity "stops" at the light but it needs a circuit to work.

Okay. I seriously need a wiring diagram for this fridge, theres 3 wires going to the thermostat/light, which makes sense (2 hot, 1 ground) BUT theres 4 wires coming out from whatever box is under there.

I do not know the first thing about how resistance works, other than its called Ohms
 

Dana Strong

Lives in an IH Dealership
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
6,671
Points
113
Location
Sunnyvale, Ca.
Speaking of which, PLEASE correct me if i am wrong in ANY way, the thermostat needs 2 wires, one directly from the hot plug, then another going to the compressor so if its open (too cold) its off but if its closed (too hot) its on, so wire hot from the new wires directly into the thermostat, then back to the compressor (it uses 3.3 OR 3.6 amps per the info plate so about 400 watts, which isnt that much), boom the thermostat problem is solved, then for the light in the fridge wire the door switch directly into the hot wire leading to the thermostat, so when that circuit is open (door closed) no light but circuit is closed (door open) theres light. Thermostat doesnt need a ground since all that does is allow or disallow flow of electricity, but the light does as the electricity "stops" at the light but it needs a circuit to work.

Okay. I seriously need a wiring diagram for this fridge, theres 3 wires going to the thermostat/light, which makes sense (2 hot, 1 ground) BUT theres 4 wires coming out from whatever box is under there.

I do not know the first thing about how resistance works, other than its called Ohms
If the original cord had 3 wires going to the refrigerator, one would be considered the Hot, another the Neutral, and the third a Ground. The purpose of a ground is to provide a low resistance path for any electricity 'leaking' from the other two to take, rather than going through you if you touch something connected to that 'leak'. A true ground is a connection to the earth ('ground'). Many appliances didn't use the ground wire in the 1950's.
Because we're dealing with alternating current, the only real difference between the Hot and Neutral lines has to do with how the power comes from the transformer and the wires on the pole; safety considerations wrt grounding of one side, etc. The motor, switch, lights, etc. don't operate differently depending on which wire one side is hooked to, whereas DC motors will run backwards if wires are reversed. The circuit does have to be complete for the current to flow and the motor to run, so you're right that power from the cord going to the thermostat switch, then to the motor, and back to the second cord conductor will allow the motor to run when the contact is closed. The same is true for the light though; cord conductor #1 > switch > light > cord conductor #2. In both cases, none of the wires is considered a ground (as explained on top). #1 should be the Hot wire, #2 the neutral, but within the circuit between those two wires the terminology is a bit more complicated. The motor is too; it has two windings, one for once it's running and a second used only to get it started; that's why the three terminals going into the side of the motor case shown in the middle photo of Post #11.

Just curious; do you live in a large city, a smaller suburb, or in a rural area? Is there a library near you where you could look at a few good books about basic electricity, motors and related subjects?
Last question; do you have any Sassafras trees growing near there? Did you know that the original Root beer was made from roots of that plant?
 

Snick

Farmall Cub
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
13
Points
3
Location
Virginia
Well at least im right...ish. i live in a "city" which has like 5 libraries at least. I also ordered that Audel book so ill be reading that once it gets here. I dont get how a circuit can work without a ground, so in theory anything on AC just needs one wire? Im also planning on running a ground on the fridge, from the screw for the compressor cover into the outlet, then the other two how theyre wired. And no i didnt know that, i might have to try brewing some root beer now.
 

Dana Strong

Lives in an IH Dealership
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
6,671
Points
113
Location
Sunnyvale, Ca.
I dont get how a circuit can work without a ground, so in theory anything on AC just needs one wire?
No, as I said ("The circuit does have to be complete for the current to flow and the motor to run, so you're right that power from the cord going to the thermostat switch, then to the motor, and back to the second cord conductor..."), two wires are required but neither is called a Ground. The same terminology has to be used consistently by everyone, or nobody knows for sure what someone else really means.
The other point I should make is that you didn't directly answer (yes or no) my question about Sassafras, although you implied an answer by saying you'd like to try brewing. In this example it isn't important, but with questions about vehicles or refrigerators, the more directly any questions can be answered, and in as much detail as possible, the more information will be understood.

BTW, I was moving some things around in the back yard yesterday and saw a few small wire racks similar to those in your picture...but didn't have time to clean them a bit and get a camera to photograph them with.
 

Dana Strong

Lives in an IH Dealership
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
6,671
Points
113
Location
Sunnyvale, Ca.
:clap:Get a SMART PHONE !
If you're referring to me wrt the camera, besides being a waste of money, I don't want to be bothered keeping track of where I last put something like that; or having to think about where it's sitting while I weld, roll under a vehicle, climb a tree holding a chainsaw, or ride a bike over rough terrain; I also don't need being bothered by unwanted calls all day, or its being tracked while I carry one anywhere I go. My own rotary phones send and receive a more clear signal, never stop working even if the power is off, are always where I left them, and don't have any security risks associated with them. They do just fine. :sailor:
 

Snick

Farmall Cub
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
13
Points
3
Location
Virginia
Well looks like we might be using this fridge regularly since the one in the kitchen keeps crapping out. Hopefully my grandad will be coming to help rewire it. Looks like i need to rewire it completely, how do i get INTO the fridge to the thermostat? And what kind of switch is that? 1568490997529390444813228420318.jpg 15684909183666411252451192314848.jpg
 

Snick

Farmall Cub
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
13
Points
3
Location
Virginia
Also...thanks for showing me that. 15684928339897613469613796950728.jpg


About a minute and a half. Now i know how its wired up a bit more.
 
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Snick

Farmall Cub
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
13
Points
3
Location
Virginia
Well I'm back, it works, mostly. Rewired it from the 3 way thing under the fridge itself back out to the wall, adding a ground plug to the chassis, really need to rewire the entire thing, and find a wiring diagram. 3 way thing is easy, one goes to wall, one to the compressor/refrigeration system, and one to the thermostat to kick the fridge itself on/off. So I understand further once I do decide to completely rewire it...

Wire from 3 way thing to thermostat-Hot-In the following path 3 way thing->light switch(How does the wire continue to stay hot? Separate wire branching off to the light? Looked at wiring diagrams, yes.)->Thermostat->3 way thing Hot or Cold depending on whether temp inside is hot enough to kick the thermostat "on"

3 way thing to Refrigeration system (Easy, I think.) Wire from switching side of thermostat->compressor Then neutral wire->plug wire to wall.

Okay hopefully I got that right (Wow this is a year later) Is there anywhere to get parts for this fridge? More specifically a drain pan, a knob or two, the plastic pieces the shelves sit on, a freezer door (The one on this is cracked badly.), and whatever goes on the very bottom in between the two drawers. At the least a drain pan. I wonder if I can make a few molds and melt some plastic for the plastic pieces that hold the shelves...

Also, what would I need to order to replace BOTH the door gasket (Went on the restoration website and they have about 10), the gasket inside the freezer door, and the seal that is on the fridge itself? I specifically need the seal on the refrigerator itself, as half (or more), is missing, but it'd be nice to replace them both together.

https://store.antiqueappliances.com/6662-compression-gasket-per-foot_p_6.html
https://store.antiqueappliances.com/P10338-compression-gasket-per-foot_p_1.html

Leaning toward the 6662 since that's firm, and the one on the door is pretty firm (and 70 years old...) But I have no idea where to start with that felt material on the fridge itself that gasket mates with when shut.
 
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