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Competitin buggy

2021 Arizona International Harvester Rendezvous

brad kellogg

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
20
Points
0
Location
cumming georgia
I'm currently in talks with a guy about building a comp buggy. We're estimating two years to get it all done and running the way we would like. Specs are as follows: frame all tubuler dom, axles 44 front 60 rear with ctms and chromoly shafts, engine possibly 4.3, trans t350, tcase dana 300. I know all these parts are not scout parts but the front axle possibly rear axle and tranfer case are. The budget for this project is around $30,000 so we are trying to stay with and use mostly junkyard parts that are accessable and cheap. Keep in mind that the buggy needs to be light and semi narrow to get through the gates. Oh ya, as far as suspension we will be going with coil-overs. Any ideas or suggestions to help aid myself on this journey would be appreciated.
 

rick W.

Binder Driver
Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
779
Points
0
Location
Everett WA.
What class are you planning on running? Rock crawling I assume? I would do yourself a favor and ditch the front 44 before you even start. It won't hold up to a competition environment. Also buy a chassis from a established chassis builder. Having the correct geometry before you start will put you miles ahead. I did mine this way and built it in 5 months in my spare time. If it's a comp only buggy you may want to use air shocks rather than coil overs. :)
 

brad kellogg

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
20
Points
0
Location
cumming georgia
What type frame do you recommend. I was planning on buying a two seater from Blue Torch fab. I hear a lot of great stuff about the air shocks, but know one can tell me why there better than coil overs other than that they are cheaper. I would like to run a 60 in the front but I don't think it's in our budget unless we run across a cheap one somewhere. I don't know exactly what class to run, that will be determined towards the end of the build up to see where we end up at. Got any ideas??
 

Wheeled Scout

Binder Driver
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Messages
568
Points
0
Location
Austin, TX
Re: Competition buggy

Bard,

I'd recommend a lot of research and go watch a few comps. You also need to decide which class and chassis style, single seater, moon buggy, etc. 30k should get you a turn key rig from a shop currently building comp buggies in well under a year. If you take two years your buggy may not even comply to the rules. With your budget don't waste money on a 44, 60 as Rick suggested or Mog portals.

Spend time on www.pirate4x4.com and other sites dedicated to competition.

Joe
 

Carl Wiese

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
8,171
Points
48
Location
Oregon City, OR
jeff campbell said:
just a thought!what about using a sprint car chassis?jeff :confused: :eek:


My question would be why?? There are many companies out there building chassis just for crawling, they aren't overly expensive and all have their own style. A spring car would be the wrong design.

Brad,

From what I hear BTF is a great fab company, never heard anything bad about them. I do, however echo what Joe said. If you haven't, go to some crawling events and decided what you want to run. Talk to a few of the competitors and see what chassis they are using, what they like dislike and go from there. If your competeing in any class but stock mod, you need a 60 or something as strong, it is just par for the course.

Decide what class you want to run, download the rule book and build as close to what the rules allow as possible. When we were building our stock mod crawler we had a copy of WE Rocks rule's in the garage at all times constantly reviewing them and keeping in contact with the promoters when we had question. Time and money spent in the planning and building stages will pay you back ten fold while on course.

AND MOST IMPORTANT!!! Have a good time!!!!! :D :D
 

rick W.

Binder Driver
Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
779
Points
0
Location
Everett WA.
From what I hear BTF makes some good stuff. I have a new S&N chassis and love it.
Air shocks are cheaper but more importantly they are much lighter. Coil overs are much more adjustable though.
Like a couple guys said keep a eye on the rules if you plan to compete much. If your in it for the recreation like me then just build what you want.
Either way what Carl said, Have fun. :)
 

Mark Ashford

Moderator.. or something
Staff member
Moderator
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Jan 30, 2002
Messages
3,989
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38
Location
Woodinville, Wa
General consensus that I have heard is that if you want to run in the unlimited class you better have a super light, single seat, mid-engined Moon Buggy. And deep pockets and/or some good sponsors.

All the "traditional" rigs, even the late model tube-buggy/trail rig have been pushed out of that class.


However, this is if you want to actually "compete" with hopes of placing. Also better have lots of time to travel and compete too.

if that's not your style then look at some of the other classes and see what peaks your interest. Go to comps. Make friends with local wheelers/competitors/fab shops and pick their brains.


If you just want to play and have fun, as Rick said, build what you want that will do what you want it too and have fun.

O-ya, and Competition-Tread BFG Krawlers are the tire of choice….
 

brad kellogg

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
20
Points
0
Location
cumming georgia
I like all the feed back, and I will do alot of research. We probably want even start seriously building the buggy for 7 to 8 months. As far as little things like engines and transmissions transfer cases etc we will start collecting them for the mean time. I already have a pretty serious ride for recreational use just finished it this year thats why I want to build a buggy. I'm taking it to the next level, you know never enough to satisfy the craving.
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
$30K and you don't get a D60 up front? :confused: That's more than enough to get D60's front and rear.

I recommend runing the modified class, you're limited to 37s, 2-seater and a few other things, but that's about it. After Rusty's done, I'll be *throwing* together 'RockBinder' ~ a Comp rig for the modified class. 4-link rear, 3-link front, coil-overs, tube chassis with enough of the original frame to keep it in the class. I'll be using a FI 345, TF727 (RMVB, RV gears, BI sprag, RR bands and clutch plates, jeep tailshaft, 1800 stall converter), Atlas, Dual D60s w/ 5.38s, 37" tires, Ram assisted steering (steering box required in class), twin corbeau BajaSS sittin' side-by side, H-gate shifter, and Scout 800 body panels. If I had $30k to build it, I'd be :D :D

The problem is that the Unlimited class puts you against some pretty high dollar MoonBuggies and the top competitors in the sport. The *modified* class, has more restrictions, but it allows for a more even playing feild. Not saying its any easier, but it may allow you to be more competitive.

Just thoughts.
 

brad kellogg

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
20
Points
0
Location
cumming georgia
What axle width would be the best. I hear the gates have got tighter over the years. I'm trying to keep the truck to around 2500#s with that light of a rig I think I could still run a 44 up front and be safe. Ya think? 30 $ is alot but when your starting from scratch you don't have any doner parts.
 

Chrispucci

High Wheeler
Joined
Oct 16, 2001
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1,985
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Newberg, OR
brad kellogg said:
What axle width would be the best. I hear the gates have got tighter over the years. I'm trying to keep the truck to around 2500#s with that light of a rig I think I could still run a 44 up front and be safe. Ya think? 30 $ is alot but when your starting from scratch you don't have any doner parts.

A D44 will never last in competetion... Run a D60 for sure and with your 30K budget you can handle it :D
Then slap some light weight beadlocks (not hummer rims) with 37's and drop the hammer! You still break stuff but you'll earn the damage then.
 

Damian Grihalva

High Wheeler
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
2,158
Points
38
Location
Colorado Springs
justscoutin said:
hard to be safe on a 44 when its a timed event. go dana 60 with hummer rims.
Ditto ~ Competitions are getting harder and harder. I wouldn't trust a D44 in anything but a "stock" class. The problem comes with all the steep down-hill cutting the brakes while gunning it, at full turn with all the weight on the front end. The joints will be at their weakest, while the demand on them is the greatest. SNAP!

Safe than sorry. Overbuild it instead of underbuilding it. You'll get more consistant results, you'll have more confidence, you'll be able to trust the rig.
 

Carl Wiese

Moderator
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Messages
8,171
Points
48
Location
Oregon City, OR
brad kellogg said:
What axle width would be the best. I hear the gates have got tighter over the years. I'm trying to keep the truck to around 2500#s with that light of a rig I think I could still run a 44 up front and be safe. Ya think? 30 $ is alot but when your starting from scratch you don't have any doner parts.

Truth of the matter is, you have to talk to people who are running the series you want to compete in. Believe it or not competitive crawling on the west coast is way different then the east coast, which is different from the central. Gate sizes depend on the series and where the series is running. In WE Rock and CalRocs, they usually have fairly wide gates, at Moab they had a rig over 90" wide running the ultimate class, yet in our stock mod out Scout was almost too wide for one of the start gates. You really need to go observe some comps in the series you plan on running.

Also on the 44, while they can be built to last with 38's, in a competition situation your really asking for problems, the axle itself is just to light. Sure you may not blow a hub or break a shaft, but you will tear knuckles off, bend housings, destroy ring and pinions. Course I have seen 60's get the knuckles tore off of them too :D :D !
 

brad kellogg

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
20
Points
0
Location
cumming georgia
I would be running mostly east coast stuff. Your right east and west coast are very different driving from what I've observed. The west seems to have alot of slow crawlers while the east is almost always wet and wheel speed conquers all. 60's seem to be the theme. I actually already have a pretty well built rig with all the goodys [scout] , but I've been bit by the bug and need to go to the next step. With the axle situation under control and I know that i'm going to run a 4.3 chevy engine what drive train would hold up the best. Thinking about a 300 with twin stick or do you dive straight into an atlas?
 
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