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California Bill to Exempt Pre-1983 Vehicles from Emissions Inspections Introduced

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Ron A

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Well. this may be round 4 or 5. Shot down every time it has been introduced. Figured I would post it anyway. It would be nice if something could be worked out. I know of at least one poor truck that is getting smog checked every other year which amounts to a smog check about every 500 miles. Thing never leaves the ranch, except to get smogged.
 

chris san diego

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Introduced 1/31/2021 by Assembly Member Voepel, a military veteran and the former mayor of Santee, CA. I'm glad he did that, even if the bill is doomed... Solid representation! 🇺🇸
 

Dana Strong

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I wonder how many of these older vehicles belong to poor people, old people, or other special-class-protected people in this state? Might be interesting if one could show the current laws do little to no good but discriminate against protected classes of people. Particularly when some cites, DA's, etc. won't cite illegals driving unregistered vehicles or making "small infractions" like running lights ...

I have one older (1980's) carburetor-ed car, now on Non-op, that had values so low that they registered zero back in those days. Never had a car fail or come close even.
 

MrKenmore

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Good luck guys!!! Lefty deep blue New York (where I live) has a rolling 25 year exemption for emissions. Very reasonable.
 

winchested

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Ontario Scrapped the emissions testing program after 15-20 years of testing as it was a gross money pit intended to be revenue neutral (which it wasn't), and pass rate of vehicles exceeded the 90% mark on the first try.
 

Mark Pietz

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The green mindset is well entrenched at the CARB. Pushing a bill like this is tilting at windmills, especially now, in light of the state's budget issues. I retired from CA state service last year, now living in Texas. The other day I received my renewal for my 2011 Sequoia from the DMV (they had my current address and can't figure out I don't live in the state? What's up with that?). Something like $475. Felt sooooo good to toss it in the trash.
 

stroker3

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Might be interesting if one could show the current laws do little to no good but discriminate against protected classes of people. ...
Believe that would have to be the case. It appears that if you buy a new or newer vehicle based on the emissions , you would be a racist. You just don't know it. Thank god we have people that'll let us know just how racist we are.

See, just like math and helmet laws , systemic emission testing on cars built back in the 70's, 80's , 90's and even the early 2000's is another way to discriminate that was created by elite white people. It not only preys on people of color but it effects young women, undocumented workers , single moms, the letter group, the handicapped, children up to the age of 26, minimum wage earners and the elderly who simply cannot afford a newer vehicle that can easily pass these tests. In addition , the newer and very costly vehicles are less likely to have safety and other violations that encourage vehicle stops by the po-po. I'm sure statistics would prove that a vast majority of safety stops on vehicles 20 year and older are based on the looks of that vehicle. When police make a stop simply on looks , it's profiling. Profiling is extremely racist. So you see now,,,,if you own a car new enough, or nice enough, that it can pass emissions, you're a racist and probably a number of other things as well. In any case, this has to end.


.......... :dig:
 
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Ron A

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The green mindset is well entrenched at the CARB.
It is. We had a perfectly good rolling exemption until it was ended by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. All the while, he commuted daily in his private jet. Those jet rides probably burned more fuel than a whole fleet of classic cars.
Hard to be optimistic about this, but I am sending a letter off to my representative anyway.
 

Darrel

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I wonder how many of these older vehicles belong to poor people, old people, or other special-class-protected people in this state? Might be interesting if one could show the current laws do little to no good but discriminate against protected classes of people. Particularly when some cites, DA's, etc. won't cite illegals driving unregistered vehicles or making "small infractions" like running lights ...

I have one older (1980's) carburetor-ed car, now on Non-op, that had values so low that they registered zero back in those days. Never had a car fail or come close even.

There were studies showing that old cars are 3% of vehicles on the road but contribute like 25% of the hydrocarbons. Which the Dems quickly point to as it fits the climate change agenda....poor people be damned. lol. Interesting that it's no problem for poor people to get a car emission tested every ever year, but getting an ID to vote every 5? years is completely impossible. haha. Dems are 75% of your State Legislature? Why don't you guys just secede already. j/k.

Kudos to Ron for writing to your Rep.
 
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Scoutboy55

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I've already sent mine off. Thanks Ron for posting. And yeah, I am in no way optimistic...
Funny too about the pollution argument....Anyone that lives in the LA area was probably more than astounded at the sheer volume of backyard and illegal fireworks both on the 4th of July and on New Years Eve. I understand the COVID lockdown, but holy crap....! It looked like a war zone....Like Baghdad on Night 1....Obviously this was more sulfur dioxide and particulate matter than we normally suffer from. But driving an old car? We can't have that. And we need electric lawnmowers because of you know, the pollution...
 

Erik VanRenselaar

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I wonder how many of these older vehicles belong to poor people, old people, or other special-class-protected people in this state? Might be interesting if one could show the current laws do little to no good but discriminate against protected classes of people...

This is an interesting part of this topic, as I have used my observations in previous letters to members in the Calif State Legislature. My observations from driving around much of Northern Calif indicate that even the poorest appearing people drive newer than 1982 vehicles. Most drivers, regardless of income, want a reliable vehicle with decent performance, that newer computer-controlled EFI provides. They also want a vehicle that has readily available parts that can be maintained by the average mechanic today. By the mid to late 1980s, EFI was the norm for fuel delivery. OBD-II came about in the mid 1990s, so even the oldest vehicle with that technology is around 25 years old. I see very few pre-1984 vehicles on the road. And when I do, they are almost always a classic style vehicle in great condition, and I would bet that these vehicles clock very few annual miles. I just don't see run-of-the-mill 1976-1982 vehicles routinely plying California roads.

I just don't buy the line that operational 1976-1982 California vehicles annually produce, overall, emissions that warrant continued biennial ASM emissions inspections.
 

Patrick Morris

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Well. this may be round 4 or 5.
Yep. Sounds about right. I'll send out emails again. :) Thanks for the heads up.

There were studies showing that old cars are 3% of vehicles on the road but contribute like 25% of the hydrocarbons. Which the Dems quickly point to as it fits the climate change agenda....poor people be damned. lol.
I wonder how that would compare if the pollution created and energy consumed was factored in, if that older car had been sold off and newer cars/trucks had been purchased by the driver every 5-6 years or so. Plus the eventual waste produced eventually by all those succeeding vehicles getting scrapped.

Good luck guys!!! Lefty deep blue New York (where I live) has a rolling 25 year exemption for emissions. Very reasonable.
As Ron said, we had that kind of program too for a number of years. A 30-year rolling exemption. But that got squashed around 2006. Ironically, the "freeze" was signed in by our Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger. I was bummed. I'd been counting down the years looking forward to it. My Scout would have become smog exempt in 2008.

I wonder how many of these older vehicles belong to poor people, old people, or other special-class-protected people in this state?
Good point. I wonder, if we say our trucks have either an automatic or manual trans. The lawmakers might fixate on that last word and give us a break. Trans rights and all. LOL
 
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Erik VanRenselaar

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It is. We had a perfectly good rolling exemption until it was ended by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. All the while, he commuted daily in his private jet. Those jet rides probably burned more fuel than a whole fleet of classic cars.
Hard to be optimistic about this, but I am sending a letter off to my representative anyway.
They realized the rolling exemption process would eventually encompass OBD-II vehicles. There would then be the possibility of someone installing a GM 454 engine with Holley double-pumper carbs (and blower?) in a 1997 Chevy Silverado as a daily driver. Or a 1996 7.3 Power Stroke diesel in a gas-engined 1990 F-250. Or...?
 

Darrel

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I wonder how that would compare if the pollution created and energy consumed was factored in, if that older car had been sold off and newer cars/trucks had been purchased by the driver every 5-6 years or so. Plus the eventual waste produced eventually by all those succeeding vehicles getting scrapped.

Too big of a spread in CO2 per mile for a 1970s drivetrain compared to a 2021 drivetrain. Dropping in a LS however is uber environmentally friendly! :clown:
 

Patrick Morris

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Too big of a spread in CO2 per mile for a 1970s drivetrain compared to a 2021 drivetrain.
I wasn't talking about tailpipe-output differences. I was talking about the pollution involved in manufacturing the 5-10 new vehicles the person might have bought. New plastic parts, metal and rubber parts, paints, etc etc. Emissions/spills originating at the factories. Just wondering about that.
 

Darrel

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I wasn't talking about tailpipe-output differences. I was talking about the pollution involved in manufacturing the 5-10 new vehicles the person might have bought. New plastic parts, metal and rubber parts, paints, etc etc. Emissions/spills originating at the factories. Just wondering about that.

I know - so was I. Including manufacturing and delivery pollution a new car beats a 1970s vehicle for overall pollution by a wide margin due to the lower tailpipe emissions per mile driven. Now if we're talking 5-10 new cars vs 1 I don't know, but that's quite extreme given that a new car typically lasts 200-300K miles. For reference mfg and delivery is 12-25% of the pollution created by new cars over their lifetime depending on the study.
 

Patrick Morris

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Yeah. 10 years might be on the outside. But many people sell their cars (or TOTAL them!) and get a new one well before the vehicle's life is used up. And I'm thinking, driving say a 45 year old car/truck vs getting a new one every 5-10 years since buying that first vehicle.

And there's also the argument that for those people who drive 60s/70s vehicles, they drive them much less frequently and for fewer miles. <-- of course this argument undermines the above argument a little I'll admit. Driving the old car very few miles most likely means you're owning/driving a newer car most of the time.

Just adding for posterity, here's the law, created in 2004 as it turned out:

SEMA's ball-crushing announcement:
 

Erik VanRenselaar

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Yeah. 10 years might be on the outside. But many people sell their cars (or TOTAL them!) and get a new one well before the vehicle's life is used up. And I'm thinking, driving say a 45 year old car/truck vs getting a new one every 5-10 years since buying that first vehicle.

And there's also the argument that for those people who drive 60s/70s vehicles, they drive them much less frequently and for fewer miles. <-- of course this argument undermines the above argument a little I'll admit. Driving the old car very few miles most likely means you're owning/driving a newer car most of the time.

Just adding for posterity, here's the law, created in 2004 as it turned out:

SEMA's ball-crushing announcement:

Ball-crushing is right! I wrote many printed paper, stamped envelope letters to the various committee members as the legislation moved along. I also sent e-mails and a fax to the governors office just prior to him signing the bill.

That said, it seems to me that most current owners of 1976-1982 vehicles use their old vehicle(s) for recreation/hobby, and have other (newer) vehicles for daily driving/work. I just don't see scads of those older vehicles being used as daily drivers.

As the years have gone by, it appears like most operational 40-45 year old vehicles are now in the realm of restorers and collectors. Virtually all of the "average" (econobox/sedan style) vehicles of that vintage, seem to have gone to the scrapyards and are not seen on the roads with 10,000-15,000 miles per year of operation.
 
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