BinderPlanet.com

Welcome to BinderPlanet.com the World's Premier IH Website.

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Brand new c series brake drums

2021 Arizona International Harvester Rendezvous

Challengeexcepted

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
128
Points
43
Would there be any interest in brand new C series brake drums? Or is the general consensus just that most people would rather convert to discs using the binder boneyard kit or some other method? The reason I’m asking is because I have access to direct metal laser sintering equipment. AKA DLMS, AKA 3D Metal printing. Assuming somebody out there has a good surviving example they would be willing to loan me it would be fairly easy to get a cad file made from it. Just testing the waters to see if there’s any interest.
 

BajaIH

Farmall Cub
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
439
Points
43
Location
San Diego
I don't have power brakes and converting to disc is on the "to-do" list.

Already have the GM 14 Bolt and Dana 44 8 lug.

Not sure if I would want to stick with the original setup at this point though it may have changed my course if they had been available before I starting scouring up parts.
 

sdhachey

Binder Driver
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
564
Points
43
Location
Fitchburg, MA
Yes, if you're asking about the big 6 version used on the 3/4 ton trucks (C model and back into the earlier 1950s). Probably more demand to reproduce fronts in the 4X4 version. The rears seem to match 4X4 or 4X2, there's a general demand for them, but there are probably variations that I'm not aware of. I have some worn out big 6 drums from a 1968 1200C 4X4 but not sure if they'd be good templates in their current condition (thin & out-of-round). Consider the continued availability of common/consumable brake parts; anybody's best guess is probably all there is. Cost to the buyer is another big consideration... I'm looking for some D model 8 lug axles to swap in because they're still out there and brake parts are still readily available (not to mention that the brakes are bigger and work better and are used by other makes so chances are better for continued availability). That would be my personal price comparison. But if you get any traction on this, then that's great, I may get on board; I'll pay attention to this thread.
 

Challengeexcepted

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
128
Points
43
Yes, if you're asking about the big 6 version used on the 3/4 ton trucks (C model and back into the earlier 1950s). Probably more demand to reproduce fronts in the 4X4 version. The rears seem to match 4X4 or 4X2, there's a general demand for them, but there are probably variations that I'm not aware of. I have some worn out big 6 drums from a 1968 1200C 4X4 but not sure if they'd be good templates in their current condition (thin & out-of-round). Consider the continued availability of common/consumable brake parts; anybody's best guess is probably all there is. Cost to the buyer is another big consideration... I'm looking for some D model 8 lug axles to swap in because they're still out there and brake parts are still readily available (not to mention that the brakes are bigger and work better and are used by other makes so chances are better for continued availability). That would be my personal price comparison. But if you get any traction on this, then that's great, I may get on board; I'll pay attention to this thread.
Makes sense. Swapping to original parts from a different model is my personal favorite way to upgrade things as a general rule. What other metal parts for our rigs are in short supply and need reproduction? I’m not trying to do this as a business or to make money off it. I just wanna be able to help out some people and keep our beloved binders on the road
 

Peter Albrecht

Farmall Cub
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
191
Points
28
Location
Wildomar, Ca.
I have a '68 1000 C Travelall, all drums, power brakes. I have considered changing out the front to disc from a later model T-All but if the drums were available, I would just replace. The stock brake set up works just fine, I have never felt the need to upgrade. I would be interested !
 

Gunfighter97

High Wheeler
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
1,024
Points
83
Location
The Communist West
I have a 65 D1100 4x4 with 73 1210 axles. 8 x6.5" pattern. Are drums available for those (fa45 / ra16)? I didn't get far into researching the cost to rebuild the drums before I started mocking up cheby k2500 parts to have custom brackets made for the front. The drums on mine stop great, but I like the cheap available gm parts/D52 calipers. From my research, the back end is an easy swap to disc, the front is what gets everybody swapping axles.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

Challengeexcepted

Farmall Cub
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
128
Points
43
So getting back to my semi original question: what single piece metal parts would you guys like to see reproduce using 3-D printing?
 

mallen

Dreams of Cub Cadets
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
4,169
Points
113
Location
Sacramento,California
So getting back to my semi original question: what single piece metal parts would you guys like to see reproduce using 3-D printing?
Some parts are reproducible via 3d printing but I don't brake drums are one of them. Brake drums are critical components. 3D printing might work. In fact it probably will work (depending on the process) and eventually it will be made to. But the problem with critical parts is that they MUST work. Because of that you need a proven track record. For example, cutting a replacement for my hub from a chunk of steel WILL work. That is one way such parts are made. One might THINK that cutting a replacement brake drum from a giant chunk of steel on a lathe would be expensive but would work. But it would not because the particular metal and even the manufacturing process a brake drum is made from is critical. To my (admittedly very limited) knowledge no one is my making brake drums with 3D printing yet so there will be a steep learning curve. Such things would be very researchy.

Another example of a critical components might be a tie rod end or a brake linkage. You stick with the tried and true manufacturing process because you don't just think it will work, you know it will. Eventually 3D printing will be used for those purposes, but someone had to do the R&D first to get it there. For example, 3D printing is being used to make jet engine parts. But the aerospace companies did the testing and R&D to make sure it works right. (It should be noted, while the quality of jet engine components must exceed that of a brake drum or wheel hub or tie rod end, the specific details of the process like the materials and quality control proceedures are very different)

Of course in some cases there might be overlap. For example, if you found a ball joint end was being made by 3D printing to operate a critical component like a wing flap or the landing gear on a passenger jet, it might be more reasonable to assume that same process could be used for automotive tie rod ends. But you also might not find it as cost effective as you'd hoped if part of the way they made it work was to look for cracks and voids in the printed part with neutron diffraction.

I have no doubt we'll get there though. It will start on the high end where people are along to pay 1000s of dollars for custom parts with a fast turn around time. Then it will trickle down. Once Airbus does the leg work to figure out how to make tie rod ends for some application for example, and the vendor that's doing it buys a one those little dental CT machines to check the parts, and the process is validated for use on actual aircraft, that cost is paid for by the initial application of the tech,and then the company starts asking "who else can we sell to to pad our bottom line".

Of course non critical components like an alternator bracket, a headlight knob or a window crank would work just fine. If they break you don't lose braking or steering.
 

61travelall

Farmall Cub
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
4
Points
1
Some parts are reproducible via 3d printing but I don't brake drums are one of them. Brake drums are critical components. 3D printing might work. In fact it probably will work (depending on the process) and eventually it will be made to. But the problem with critical parts is that they MUST work. Because of that you need a proven track record. For example, cutting a replacement for my hub from a chunk of steel WILL work. That is one way such parts are made. One might THINK that cutting a replacement brake drum from a giant chunk of steel on a lathe would be expensive but would work. But it would not because the particular metal and even the manufacturing process a brake drum is made from is critical. To my (admittedly very limited) knowledge no one is my making brake drums with 3D printing yet so there will be a steep learning curve. Such things would be very researchy.

Another example of a critical components might be a tie rod end or a brake linkage. You stick with the tried and true manufacturing process because you don't just think it will work, you know it will. Eventually 3D printing will be used for those purposes, but someone had to do the R&D first to get it there. For example, 3D printing is being used to make jet engine parts. But the aerospace companies did the testing and R&D to make sure it works right. (It should be noted, while the quality of jet engine components must exceed that of a brake drum or wheel hub or tie rod end, the specific details of the process like the materials and quality control proceedures are very different)

Of course in some cases there might be overlap. For example, if you found a ball joint end was being made by 3D printing to operate a critical component like a wing flap or the landing gear on a passenger jet, it might be more reasonable to assume that same process could be used for automotive tie rod ends. But you also might not find it as cost effective as you'd hoped if part of the way they made it work was to look for cracks and voids in the printed part with neutron diffraction.

I have no doubt we'll get there though. It will start on the high end where people are along to pay 1000s of dollars for custom parts with a fast turn around time. Then it will trickle down. Once Airbus does the leg work to figure out how to make tie rod ends for some application for example, and the vendor that's doing it buys a one those little dental CT machines to check the parts, and the process is validated for use on actual aircraft, that cost is paid for by the initial application of the tech,and then the company starts asking "who else can we sell to to pad our bottom line".

Of course non critical components like an alternator bracket, a headlight knob or a window crank would work just fine. If they break you don't lose braking or steering.
I just pulled the driver side front drum off my 1961 4x4 3/4 ton T'all. The drum looks very good, no grooves or pitting. I will post pics of the drum. I would like to find a company or person who could potentially make them to help people out with the 6 lug front drums, that is if they up to spec. I believe the brakes have never been changed by looking at the shoes and drum. The trucks odometer reads just over 23k miles and I believe those to be original by the condition of the frame.
 

Attachments

  • 20201207_171357_7.jpg
    20201207_171357_7.jpg
    4.5 MB · Views: 13
  • 20201207_171350_6.jpg
    20201207_171350_6.jpg
    5.2 MB · Views: 12
  • 20201207_171344_5.jpg
    20201207_171344_5.jpg
    4.2 MB · Views: 11
  • 20201207_171337_2.jpg
    20201207_171337_2.jpg
    4 MB · Views: 12
  • 20201207_171337_3.jpg
    20201207_171337_3.jpg
    4.1 MB · Views: 13
  • 20201207_171337_4.jpg
    20201207_171337_4.jpg
    4.2 MB · Views: 12
  • 20201207_171329_1.jpg
    20201207_171329_1.jpg
    5.4 MB · Views: 15
  • 20201207_171150_5.jpg
    20201207_171150_5.jpg
    3.3 MB · Views: 11
  • 20201207_171111_4.jpg
    20201207_171111_4.jpg
    2.3 MB · Views: 11

Gringo Gomez

Farmall Cub
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
211
Points
28
Location
Lawrenceville, NJ
Assuming somebody out there has a good surviving example
I talked to a guy at Dura Brake about 5 years ago. They had the specs and could make them for $350 ea. Minimum run of 8 pieces w/ a 6-8 week lead time. I don't have the $ to invest.

the back end is an easy swap to disc
How so? I researched this for months at the same time and never found a disc solution for an RA15 or RA16.

A member in a current thread mentioned relining. Another member (wjajr) just had this done by JG Brake within the last year.
{edited} Longer than I thought it was - http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/big-6-brake-drum-relining.140842/
I spoke to them too at the same time but didn't have a spare pair to ship out.
I've since acquired a "like new" set of rears from Barnes International. The fronts are holdin' up ok.
 
Last edited:

Gunfighter97

High Wheeler
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
1,024
Points
83
Location
The Communist West
How so? I researched this for months at the same time and never found a disc solution for an RA15 or RA16.

There is a thread on here iirc that dealt with this topic as a side note. Common d60 discs with the 8 x 6.5 lug pattern will mate to the IH 8 lug hubs without issue, the missing link was the brake caliper bracket. The IH bolt pattern on the flange that the back plate of the drum brake bolts to is four bolt but two are closer together. There is a bracket made by an aftermarket company with a square four hole pattern. The guy on the thread said that through contacting them he was able to get them to replicate the IH pattern on to a blank one that fit and completed the conversion. I contacted the company and they were willing to do another set, but by the time I realized their email had gone to my spam folder I didn't have the funds to pursue it further. I will try and find the thread and link it here. Im fairly sure it was here on BP but I may be wrong.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

Gunfighter97

High Wheeler
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
1,024
Points
83
Location
The Communist West

mallen

Dreams of Cub Cadets
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
4,169
Points
113
Location
Sacramento,California
I have a 65 D1100 4x4 with 73 1210 axles. 8 x6.5" pattern. Are drums available for those (fa45 / ra16)? I didn't get far into researching the cost to rebuild the drums before I started mocking up cheby k2500 parts to have custom brackets made for the front. The drums on mine stop great, but I like the cheap available gm parts/D52 calipers. From my research, the back end is an easy swap to disc, the front is what gets everybody swapping axles.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
There might be something that works or can be made to work. In fact I'm hoping there is. But there's nothing listed in the parts catalogs. Ive HEARD there are some that can be made to fit but that's just what I've heard.
 

Gunfighter97

High Wheeler
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
1,024
Points
83
Location
The Communist West
There is/are things that work or at least fit together, but the more I dig around, people aren't willing to do a conversion bracket for the front to make it all fit on account of the liability involved.

Edit: i should specify when working with standard hub patterns. Not applicable to the big six pattern.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

Darrel

Lives in an IH Dealership
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
5,203
Points
113
Location
Colorado
There's a need for '74/75 200 rotors.

There is/are things that work or at least fit together, but the more I dig around, people aren't willing to do a conversion bracket for the front to make it all fit on account of the liability involved.

Edit: i should specify when working with standard hub patterns. Not applicable to the big six pattern.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

Lots won't but there are also dozens upon dozens of companies doing exactly that. Problem with IH is the market is so small.
 
Top