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Blue and "Super Blue" Diamond engine I.D. and information

2022 Arizona International Harvester Rendezvous

John Donnelly

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Here are shots of the Blue Diamond engines, feel free to share your pics of this engine family in this thread, along with any information you wish to share.

Below is a cross section view of the Blue Diamond engine, also known as the "FAB" engine. ?Cubic inch ratings that I know of are 262, 269, 282, and 308.

6fab_engine_drawing_axial.jpg

Here are shots of a recent overhaul by one of our folks:

6Big_Blue.JPG

Notice the tall distributor shaft that begins at the bottom of the block and travels all the way up to the valve cover before terminating in a Delco-Remy mechanical advance distributor. Also note the early "Marvel" style sock-type oil filter. To my knowledge, the Blue Diamond engines never got a full-flow canister filter.

Here is a passenger side view of the engine:

6BigBlueRt_1_.JPG

Note the extremely thick and heavy intake/exhaust manifold, and the fine quality casting in comparison to the Silver and Black Diamond engine manifolds which are notorious for cracking and burning out. The Blue Diamond engines have superior castings and much stronger and heavier components based on visual inspection alone.

It should also be noted that I have never found any Blue Diamond engine with anything other than a 1bbl carburetor. I have also been witness to 3 different units installed on the engine, manufactured by Stromberg, Carter, and Holley.

More pics as I find them, and more information as it becomes available.

Keep on Binderin',

John
 
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Carl Wiese

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John,

The K's and KB's 6/7 used Blue Diamonds, the 6's used a 250CI derivative of the motor and the 7's used the 269. Early models have an "FAC" motor, which from what I can tell are early Blue Diamonds, except they have the displacments of 241 and 259. The part numbers match between the FAC's and the BLD's. They also have the unique intake and exhaust manifolds. I don't know if this is note worthy or not, but the COE models (at least for the K and KB lines used an updraft carb.) I had a guy come into the show room who just bought a KB six and we looked a bunch of stuff up for him. I figureds since it was fresh in my mind I would post it here.
 

Mark Ashford

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Here's the 269 instauled in my '49 KB-7.

It runs, so I haven't had to do much to it yet. I rebuilt the fuel pump... which pretty much consisted of pulling it apart, cleaning out all the rust, sand and bug parts (yes, bug parts), makeing a new gasket for it and putting it back together. Strangly enough it even worked. I have to drop the tank and have it cleaned out, for now I have it bypassed (i.e. gas can and hose straped to front bumper :D)

I've also picked up a cap and rotor from NAPA for it. They look right but I haven't instauled it yet to verify.
They didn't have any plug wires listed, and I need to replace mine. I could play the "open the box and look" game, but if anyone had a PN for a set (the set on the above engine looks nice and correct).

I'd also like to probably go to a Pertronix some day and a hotter spark (more spark always good ;))

Anyone have a PN for the "sock" oil filter?? How is the oil changed? I haven't looked it up in the manual yet (to busy with brakes and life) but before I start using this thing I want to change the oil. It looks like a messy job. Probably should service the oil-bath filter as well, any advice on that would help, never delt with them before...

DSCN0516.sized.jpg

Nice fuel line huh ;)
DSCN0517.sized.jpg

Cracked exhaust manifold
DSCN0518.sized.jpg
DSCN0520.sized.jpg

Leaky water pump, I'll rebuild it some day, but not right now unless I HAVE to.
DSCN0521.sized.jpg
 

Jim Grammer

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Mark Ashford said:
I rebuilt the fuel pump... which pretty much consisted of pulling it apart, cleaning out all the rust, sand and bug parts (yes, bug parts), makeing a new gasket for it and putting it back together.

Mark, did you replace the diaphragm?

Probably should service the oil-bath filter as well, any advice on that would help, never delt with them before...

Just clean it out and refill with oil up to the mark that's prolly stamped in the housing. Take a look at the relative cleanliness of the mesh 'stuffing' and decide if it needs soaked for a while. I've had good luck dunking them in a strong solution of aqueous cleaner and then rinsing with a garden nozzle.

Cracked exhaust manifold

Bummer. If you don't have a replacement you can prolly find an old-timey welder to stick that ear back on with the heat-up-the-manifold-and-nickel-rod technique.
 

Mark Ashford

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Jim Grammer said:
Mark, did you replace the diaphragm?
No. It appeared good and solid and still pliable. And it pumps fuel now. I should see if the diaphragm is available and think about replacing it. Luckily the fuel pump is one of those relatively easy things to remove and replace.

However, when I had it apart I don't remember seeing an easy way to remove the actual diaphragm to replace it... any suggestions?


Just clean it out and refill with oil up to the mark that's prolly stamped in the housing. Take a look at the relative cleanliness of the mesh 'stuffing' and decide if it needs soaked for a while. I've had good luck dunking them in a strong solution of aqueous cleaner and then rinsing with a garden nozzle.
Aqueous Cleaner?? You mean water-soluble degreaser/oiler? Oil Eater or Simply Green? Probably be more obvious to me once I get into this thing. I'm trying to do "one thing at a time" on this truck, rather than get myself buried under projects. The brakes have taken long enough :rolleyes:. But then this truck is not on the top of my priorities or budget list, I would like to get it usable though, I have already come up with a couple uses :D


Bummer. If you don't have a replacement you can prolly find an old-timey welder to stick that ear back on with the heat-up-the-manifold-and-nickel-rod technique.
I know a couple old time welders that have said they can fix it. Might not be the prettiest, but functional. For now it will stay cracked, till I'm ready to pull it and the intake off and clean things up etc. If I put a muffler on the thing, I think I should be able to live with a little manifold leak for a while.
 

Jim Grammer

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Mark Ashford said:
However, when I had it apart I don't remember seeing an easy way to remove the actual diaphragm to replace it... any suggestions?

Normally the diaphragm is staked to the pushrod thingy. I'd prolly spend money here:

http://www.classicpreservation.com/...F2A9!Rk5HUFxqamc6Zm5ncDqYpv1/PID0ylh+cG+HMNOl

before I tried to mess with it myself.

Aqueous Cleaner?? You mean water-soluble degreaser/oiler? Oil Eater or Simply Green?

Yes, and IMO Oil Eater kicks it over SG, hands down. That's how I've been getting stuff(engines, chassis) clean enough to paint lately. Soak in OE, pressure wash with warm water(hose off the water heater), repeat. 2 or 3 iterations gets to a water sheeting clean and paintable surface most times.

If I put a muffler on the thing, I think I should be able to live with a little manifold leak for a while.

LOL! :D
 

RustEoldtrux

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Sock type oil filters

Just a stab in the dark, but your oil filter housing looks very close to the ones used on old Power Wagons with flathead 6 engines. They use NAPA 1010 oil filter units, so maybe start with one of them.
 

Dave Ball

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Napa has the socks I will try and find the part number for the one I just bought may have kept the box top.
 

Vern0n

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I just pulled one of these engines out of a big fuel truck, (1957 I think). It had 41,000 miles on it. The truck was wrecked. Where on the block do I look for the CID? I can't find it anyplace.
 

Dave Ball

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Vernon Hi:
If you are standing in front of the motor (water pump end) on the right side there is a pad at the front of the block just about where the head and the block seperate wire brush the pad it should start out BLD******
Let us know what you find :)
 

Dave Ball

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I found the napa part number for the oil filter socks it is 1002
I bought one today to make sure.

It comes with the lid gasket and wire.
The manufactuer part# is 551002
 

Andrew Harvey

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I was in a salvage yard today looking for a BD269. I found an L180 with a BLD/BD type engine. Can I assume it's a 269? Or could it possibly be a 282? L -series ended in '53, right? I couldn't read a darn thing on the stamping pad area.
Looked at some RD's while I was there, man those things are huge.
Andrew
 

Dave Ball

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I maybe wrong but I think from my experience the 282 in my 1960 BC172 is a Black Diamond thats BD for short And the 269B in my 1944 Military M-3L-4 is a Blue Diamond thats BLD for short two seperate engine lines.
There was a 259FAC that was built before the 269BLD I am not familiar with that line of engines.
I can not find any referance two a BLD 269A in my books but I have one in a truck as well as two BLD 269B engines.
The Gas black diamond motors were in the sizes 220, 264, 221, 263 and 282
Hope this helps.
 

Andrew Harvey

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Just to follow up, I have confirmed from several sources that they didn't bump the displacement up to 282 until the "R" series, so the L180 does in fact have the BD269. Now if I can get the guy to give me a reasonable price, I may get my L170 back on the road after all. The $800-for-parts rebuild was not an option.
Dave, I agree the whole "blue" and "black" thing is confusing. I do know the BLD269 is the same as the BD269, which developed into the BD282 and BD308 engines. Whether we're supposed to call them "blue" or "black" I'm not sure. I'll I know is that their parts are mostly interchangable (except for pistons and sleeves).
 

Andrew Harvey

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Don't know why I didn't mention this before, but my BD269 is definatey painted BLUE, and apparently always has been (no sign of any repaint). So much for BD="black" diamond.
Heard back from the junk yard today, he wants $1000 for what he calls a "running" BD269 - who knows how long since it ran. I guess it's back to ebay.
Andrew
 

Mark Ashford

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Andrew Harvey said:
Don't know why I didn't mention this before, but my BD269 is definatey painted BLUE, and apparently always has been (no sign of any repaint). So much for BD="black" diamond.
Heard back from the junk yard today, he wants $1000 for what he calls a "running" BD269 - who knows how long since it ran. I guess it's back to ebay.
Andrew

JD had (2) BLD269's in his garage at one time IIRC. They went to another local (oregon) IH guy when he did his big 'spring-clean' and recovered his garage bay.


Might want to look over that thread in the IHSTO forum and maybe contact the guy that got them and see if he wants to part with one, or parts from one.


just a thought, might not pan out at all, might be just what you need.
 

Andrew Harvey

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Thanks to a post by DrMaserati I have found an engine for my L174 - I think. It is the 282 in Walla Walla, WA mentioned in the recent "241 or 264" post by John Donnelly. Assuming my understanding of these engines is correct, it should bolt right in in place of my wounded 269. As I understand it, a 282 is a BLD without sleeves and a reduced stroke. I am assuming that the 269 bellhousing will bolt to it, as well as the engine mounts, exhaust, etc. The fellow says I can have everything left on the truck I need to make it work (although he has allready gotten rid of the bell and tranny). Its from a 1960 B(?)170 moving/box truck. He says the company that ran the truck in the 60s and 70s said it was the best running truck in their fleet.
So, fingers crossed.
 
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