Bad Vendor Experiences

[Bread]

D&C

Purchased long travel shock kit front and rear. Same story of waiting a month for something that should have taken less than a week. After a few calls and a post on the old bulletin the parts showed up in several boxes of grab bag parts. Somebody just threw handfuls of shock sleeves and hardware in the box. Wouldn't buy again unless I was there in person to actually receive the product.

Back Country Binders
Drove over there to pick up all the parts required to convert my truck to power steering. Got home and realized I didn't have a bracket to mount the pump to the block. John wouldn't honor the 'package' I bought and wanted to charge me extra for it. So I bought the bracket from somebody else and haven't been back, even though he's located real close to me.

SSS

This is a two part problem with the Scout Ranch and SSS. But since SSS carries their product they are therefore responsible for supporting it because I'm dealing with them exclusively.

Ordered a headlight dimmer switch among other things. Parts arrived in a fair amount of time, but the dimmer switch ended up not working with my 810 due to reasons not yet understood. Differences in the electrical systems on the early SII's. I returned it, and decided to wait on getting a refund because the SR was "working on a fix". Trying to get e-mail updates was difficult as they either didn't reply, or Bob G would reply with a one line sentence with no useable information. You've got to call these guys if you want to get through. My dealings with SSS and this switch lasted from Feb '08 to June '09 when I had enough and got a refund. It is what it is. I'd buy from SSS again, just nothing made by the Scout Ranch.

 

[Dana Strong]

I used to buy all of my Scout parts from T & J garage in Sunnyvale, but no longer----they were a great vendor, but sadly, it was a very bad experience when they closed a few decades ago; I lost both a favorite supply source and some good, responsible acquaintances there. I wonder if it was worse for them??

​

 

[scoutboy74]

You're bringing up a bad experience with a vendor that shuttered circa 1990 "...few decades ago..." and consequently few if any other active members have probably even heard of let alone done business with...and couldn't now even if they wanted to 'cuz the place don't exist anymore.

 

[John Glancy]

D&C

SSS

This is a two part problem with the Scout Ranch and SSS. But since SSS carries their product they are therefore responsible for supporting it because I'm dealing with them exclusively.

Ordered a headlight dimmer switch among other things. Parts arrived in a fair amount of time, but the dimmer switch ended up not working with my 810 due to reasons not yet understood. Differences in the electrical systems on the early SII's. I returned it, and decided to wait on getting a refund because the SR was "working on a fix". Trying to get e-mail updates was difficult as they either didn't reply, or Bob G would reply with a one line sentence with no useable information. You've got to call these guys if you want to get through. My dealings with SSS and this switch lasted from Feb '08 to June '09 when I had enough and got a refund. It is what it is. I'd buy from SSS again, just nothing made by the Scout Ranch.

The problem was on a Scout Ranch Wiper switch and not a dimmer switch, SSS tried to get answers to the problem in a timely manner, Jason was willing to wait for the parts update if it was going to be possible, when a refund was requested we were unable to refund immediately however due to credit card expiration, we tried to contact Jason and have the emails in our files, SSS wrote a check refund to Jason in the end. SSS found Jason to be very understanding and easy to deal with during this experience, we value and appreciate his business.

Along with many vendors like Scout Ranch, SSS tries to offer the best quality and the most parts that are in need and are not available any where else, when a supplier doesn't deliver SSS is just as responsible for the problem as is the supplier. SSS management is addressing the problems with this and other vendors and will drop any products that do not meet the needs of our customers in timely fashion.

FREIGHT cost issue

SSS doesn't not make money on freight, SSS charges the UPS rate plus no more than a couple of dollars for handling, some larger items may have a small box charge etc. On small items we strive to use the USPS but have found them to be unreliable at times and SSS is not able to track our orders.

A note from JG

My Pledge to you:
If any issue goes on to long or you do not get the answers that you require, please email me personally @ suprscout@aol.com, explain your concerns and I promise to do what i can to make your exprience with SSS the best posible. I will strive to improve our service.

If your concern is with another Scout/Light line Authorized dealer, please try to work it out with them first, if you are not satisfied send me a note and if i am able to help or give advise, i will try, if it is humanly possible.

John Glancy
SSS,SLL,NATS'10

 

[Bread]

The problem was on a Scout Ranch Wiper switch and not a dimmer switch

My mistake. It was a wiper switch.

 

[WarlordX]

Has anyone talked to John Fleck over at BCB within the last 2 weeks???

I'm getting really frustrated.. and way behind on my project. I ordered about 450 $ worth of items (been paid for as of 3 weeks ago) from him nearly 3 months ago (so far all my previous orders with him have been flawless and had no problems) But this last order there were some hitches, back in November he broke his lathe bit i believe and then in Early December he had some sort of surgery and so i cut him some slack, finally i talked to him.. about 3 weeks ago and he had everything in stock/finished making finally, and told me he was shipping it out that day. (I'm in California and hes in WA so it usually takes 3 days on average) I waited a week.. nothing... so i called him 2 weeks ago at just before 5 o clock. He says he is on his way too the post office to ship out someone Else's package and he will call me back when he returns and help me track down the package (tracking number, as i didn't ever get one in my email)

I never received a follow up... and have been calling him on a daily basis since then. And sent 2 emails... And PMed him

I know he is the sole owner/operator of his shop now so I'm hoping he is just busy and hasn't gotten back to me yet.. and didn't go off the road and get injured or something when he was going to the post office?? I dunno I'm at a loss right now.. Does anyone have any suggestions?

He seems very professional and that's why this seems out of character and im not trying to badmouth him.. just want my parts, or my money lol and at least an EXPLANATION

Any ideas??
Has anyone heard from him lately??

Figured this was probably the right place to post this, hoping John will get back to me as it says he was active yesterday... 1/20/10 which kind of annoys me slightly..

 

[John Fleck]

Has anyone talked to John Fleck over at BCB within the last 2 weeks???
He seems very professional and that's why this seems out of character and im not trying to badmouth him.. just want my parts, or my money lol and at least an EXPLANATION

I was just made aware of this posting. I do not get on here very offen as of late but here is the e-mail i sent to mike to clarify what happened.

**************************************************
I am back working at the shop tonight. I had the worst Holiday ever. I was dealing with sever depression over a compounded mix of events in my life, families life, and economic life. Then I had the Knee surgery and was in recovery for two weeks, the new steroids my doctor put me on did not mix well with my other medications and I went into a massive downward spiral. I am over the steroids and now that they are working out of my system, things are much better. It’s my sincere apology that I was “lost” in December and that I was not at work mentally or physically allot for a stretch of about 4 weeks-1.5 months total, and my situations further delayed this e-mail. I would never deceive you, or stall tactic you, as I have always been up front and honest. It shows in my work, and when anyone meets me face to face. Unfortunately this past 1.5 months has been a major change in what I consider my best foot forward. Again for that I am sorry and can only promise that I have recognized it, and taken corrective actions to change it and bring the level back up.

That said Mike, I did ship the stuff prepaid USPS flat rate box. I dumped the package in the drop box back when I told you I did. I finally followed up on it after our last conversation and I saw your e-mails. Since I never do anything special to the us mail (insurance, tracking, signature confirmation) because its been so reliable, I went up during the day and spoke with the postmaster. She checked in the back area and found one flatrate box with no label. I guess in my crazy state of mind I filled out the label but then in my rush to make it to the Post office before 5 when they closed I did not affix it to the package. Yes I must say I am embarrassed to say the least. Now I know why you have not seen the package since we spoke on the phone.
***********************************************

ADDITIONALLY:
I have also contacted Bread about his experiance. I believe i priced out the individual components he bought that day. I am not 100% sure but vaguley remember someone calling and asking about how much the bracket was. I told him $50. I do not recall getting "into" it over the price of the bracket or if it was included or not. Again this may not have been the same person, without full details and as John G. mentions its impossible to defend ones self without all the details, and at that it is still up to the people reading on who they want to believe.

As to Jmaroons post, i believe this was over 8 years ago but reallly can't remember what all the issues were. There is always a reason, but its how you deal with what happened that really counts. Call me up, remind me and i will try and make you happy if possible.

 

[John Fleck]

That said I have in the past made mistakes as anyone growing a business from the ground up does. I have taken responsibility for my actions and moved on a better person. To this day I have been self sufficient in my business and not had a bank loan or financial assistance of any kind to provide the amenities that come with them. It is hard when you finance everything for the business from your own pocket or profits.

I have struggled over the 11 years and made some regrettable errors as any human does. I have moved 3 times and service has suffered during these periods. I have had the normal things all of us experience at some point like death in the family, loss of pets, loss of relationships, financial hardship due to medical expenses, plain stupidity, and for me personally memory loss. So as you can see we are not perfect. I instead try and judge people as I want to be judged, based on their current position, stance, and approach to business. Over the 11 years I have taken each mistake I have made, tried the best I could to make them right, but most importantly learned and adapted from them. I change things to make sure they do not happen again. It shows my current business is nothing like the days in the one car garage, and working part time at college. Its no where even close. Additionally I try and make a decision on people for their contributions and helpfulness in the community. I sponsor shows when I can financially afford to, I travel to them when possible, and I contribute to IH community related "requests for assistance" if possible. Ask any number of people who have known me since day one, and you will get smiles, ask any one of the customers who have broken down on the way to or from my shop about how I go above and beyond to go rescue them and lend assistance in getting them on their way.
I will say this, no matter how good a vendor is, there is always going to be times when something happens that will not make all parties involved happy. It’s a fact of Life as JetFxer says. It only becomes a problem when it is a regular thing that has not been addressed by the vendor. If care is taken to avoid similar instances from happening again in the future that shows the true colors of the vendor and is the basis for their reputation in the community.

Sorry for being somewhat long winded, but I am tired of people badmouthing vendors and then not providing every single fact. It’s like having a murder trial with jurors being absent, late back from lunch, or missing due to illness. They will not get all the facts and can not make a true decision, but guess what when these things get posted up here all the details are not provided and people still choose to make a judgment and that’s wrong. Business suffers from it. How would you like to know a business failed because of an unjust reputation, or lack of business because of misleading regurgitation of facts? Once again even if all the details are provided it’s still a point of the person reading it making a decision as to who to believe.
Threads like this I feel do more harm than good. The other thread "good vendors" does far more good. If you see tons of Posts of happy customers like Jeff, SSS, etc receives it is a good indication that the business is great to deal with. If you don’t see any that may speak more than a bad vendor section. At least this way one does not have to decide whose side to be on. They can just go, this guy has 15 of 50 posts about good service, and I think I will go there. Because some businesses only have 5 doesn’t force a guy to possibly make a decision that the vendor is bad. Additionally it gives us less posted vendors something to see and go, you know I need to strive for greatness so more people mention me. See where I am going with this? In all likelihood I would buy from the guy with 25 good feedbacks instead of the guy with 10, but I may still compare the 2 for price and availability.
So take my point on it for what its worth and either make a decision, or do research to provide your own data. Personally I have stood the test of time, and although not perfect, I understand that if I am not continually evolving to today’s demands and standards, that the business will suffer. I have chosen to take criticism and be active with it. I examine it, ponder it, step outside myself and put myself in that position and look at it, and then if warranted make changes to correct what needs to be so as to eliminate the possibility of a re occurrence.

I thank you for reading my opinion and giving it some thought. May your new year bring you everything you desire it to.

Regards
John

 

[jmaroon]

lets see if this refreshes your memory. if i was running a business and someone threatened to sue me, I think i'd remember it.

Dear Mr. Fleck:



Although I have made several attempts to amicably collect the Travelall parts which I ordered and paid for over a year ago, you have continually resisted shipment of the parts. If I do not receive a refund in the amount of $500.00 from you by August 15, 2003, I will be forced to contact the prosecuting attorney in Kitsap County, Washington. I feel as though I have given you ample opportunity to comply with my order, and I hate to take this to a hostile level, but I feel as though I must. Even though I have sold the travelall and bought a scout, I agreed to go through with the order and accept the parts that I ordered, even though I didn’t need them. At this point (over a year after ordering the parts) I’d just rather get my money back and give it to somebody who’ll actually give me the services I request in a timely manner without all the excuses Although my attorney has been notified, I would rather handle this like a gentleman, and I refuse to trash your business to your peers and other potential customers, as I am not that type of person.


Please let me know what your intentions are at this time.

Sincerely,

Jason M. Maroon

 

[WarlordX]

Update : John ended up contacting me and solved this, he was very apologetic and very honest, he had not put the correct address so it was stuck at the office (just a mistake) and I now have the tracking number and it is expected to arrive Monday.

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has problems... he made it up and even kicked down a little beer cash for the wait and the misunderstanding/communication error with the post office.

Issue resolved, I will continue to conduct business with him and im glad to call him a friend before a vendor

 

[Dennis Bernth]

I had mixed emotions about the 'Good Vendor/Bad Vendor' thing when it started, but this last episode on here kind of tipped the scales in favor I think. It shows that this isn't just a 'bashing' thread, and if it can help vendors and customers work out the differences in a civilized manner (more likely because it's in public) then I think it's providing a service. This and the 'Good' thread also gives vendors a chance to explain to the total group glitches that might not make the rounds and that could damage their business if not addressed. It's easy for IH people to get together, email, etc. and complain about the vendor they're dealing with, which has the result of causing the next guy to avoid dealing with them. In a situation like Fleck's, or JG's with the wiper switches or headlight kits, people see their explanations of what happened and can make their own judgement on dealing with them after they have both sides. This is a tough time to own a business, and worse yet, even in good times us IH owners are a bunch of cheap @%&$tards, so my hat is off to them for continuing to provide us the means to keep our stuff moving.

 

[Allan E]

This is a tough time to own a business, and worse yet, even in good times us IH owners are a bunch of cheap @%&$tards, so my hat is off to them for continuing to provide us the means to keep our stuff moving.

Never truer words spoken.

 

[jmaroon]

since john doesnt accept pm's i guess i'll have to get my point across here.. he can delete it if he thinks it's necessary.

thank you for reinstating the thread, but it seems like a large hunk of it is missing. how should this thread reflect the problems with vendors if an honest thread isn't shown to the public. when i had my dealings with fleck, i was new to IH, and i was nearly turned away from persuing another ih vehicle, because he was the first source i went to for parts, and well you saw how that turned out(before it was deleted). I made it a point to be civil, but i don't mind letting people know when i'm not satisfied with how a deal goes down. i could have gotten a whole lot uglier with him, but I didn't want the thread to get locked or worse, myself to get banned. To me, 500 bucks was pretty much my toy allowance for a year at the time, so an 18 month wait was unnacceptable..
thank you for your time.. sorry if it seems like a b*tch session...

 

[MikeInMobile]

since john doesnt accept pm's i guess i'll have to get my point across here.. he can delete it if he thinks it's necessary.

thank you for reinstating the thread, but it seems like a large hunk of it is missing. how should this thread reflect the problems with vendors if an honest thread isn't shown to the public. when i had my dealings with fleck, i was new to IH, and i was nearly turned away from persuing another ih vehicle, because he was the first source i went to for parts, and well you saw how that turned out(before it was deleted). I made it a point to be civil, but i don't mind letting people know when i'm not satisfied with how a deal goes down. i could have gotten a whole lot uglier with him, but I didn't want the thread to get locked or worse, myself to get banned. To me, 500 bucks was pretty much my toy allowance for a year at the time, so an 18 month wait was unnaccebtable..
thank you for your time.. sorry if it seems like a b*tch session...

Jason, your posts in this thread have not been deleted, nor has this thread been edited. This is the exact same thread that was moved to this forum and locked. It was merely unlocked.

Vendors do not have deletion capability in this thread.

Your posts on this topic have made your point clear. It doesnt appear that you were b*******, just telling your story. No need to apologize. Thanks for keeping it civil, and thanks for your contribution.

Mike

 

[jmaroon]

Jason, your posts in this thread have not been deleted, nor has this thread been edited. This is the exact same thread that was moved to this forum and locked. It was merely unlocked.

Vendors do not have deletion capability in this thread.

Your posts on this topic have made your point clear. It doesnt appear that you were b*******, just telling your story. No need to apologize. Thanks for keeping it civil, and thanks for your contribution.

Mike

sorry bout that mike.. i found it, dial up sucks, and it was a couple pages back

 

[John Donnelly]

Jason, your posts in this thread have not been deleted, nor has this thread been edited. This is the exact same thread that was moved to this forum and locked. It was merely unlocked.

Vendors do not have deletion capability in this thread.

Your posts on this topic have made your point clear. It doesnt appear that you were b*******, just telling your story. No need to apologize. Thanks for keeping it civil, and thanks for your contribution.

Mike

This thread has been edited now. It hadn't been before.

The reason you ask?

There was a protracted argument between a member here who calls himself "orangewhip" and John Fleck, owner of Back Country Binders about the length of time, money spent, and work done by his shop on his Scout.

Mr. Fleck's final comments (more like a manifesto) for some reason caused orangewhip to go back and edit all of his posts to remove his side of things. I am not sure why, and I don't really want to know why.

What I do want is people to remember my original request. Post the facts, and leave out the drama.

I removed all of the discussion because it was now one-sided, and orangewhip's reason for originally posting was what caused the debate. We used to have a 15 minute window of time where you could edit a thread, but we removed that time limit... it seems that we may have to revisit that again, or when you reply to someone, you might consider hitting the "quote button" before you reply.

For those of you that were following this portion of this thread, I am sorry that I had to remove this popcorn drama. For those of you that were tired of the "he said, she said"... you are welcome.

I am sorry I had to remove what was posted, but without both sides, it isn't relevant, or fair.

-John

P.S. I don't need any opinions, op-ed pieces, thank you's, or why did you's, from Mr. Fleck, Orangewhip, or any comments about my decision here. Just move on, and move forward. Thank you.

 

[orangewhip]

Hi all,

The reason I removed all my posts was because I finally received my Scout back and the situation was over. But then there was another post that was just begging to bring out more of the drama and I thought it was unnecessary to have this continue any further.

I would just like to put all this behind me, enjoy this excellent forum, all of its extremely knowledgeable people and enjoy the first Scout I have ever owned.

I am thankful and appreciate the use of the forum and even for this thread to bring my situation to an end and I am sorry if it caused any issues as this was not my intention at all.

 

[Smithflyfisher1]

Here is the situation in which I am currently involved. I ordered a Z-link for my SOA from D&C Extreme back on 01-28-10. Initially, in a telephone conversation with Damian, I was advised that the part would be shipped very quickly and arrive in one week or less. I was satisfied with the timeframe and decided to give him my business since he’s local (local as in same state). The part cost $180.00, which was deducted from my banking account several days later. Here are the rest of the facts:

02-11-10 (Thurs)-I sent D&C Extreme an email asking about the status of my order because it had not shown up. No big deal at this time…. It had still been just over a week since I ordered.

02-16-10 (Tues)- No part - I got a pm from Damian stating the part should have been done by now. He added that if it was not available in the next few days, he would “explore” refunding my money. I promptly replied via pm: “O.K. I don't necessarily want a refund, just anxious about getting the rig all put back together. Let me know when you get the drag link and maybe we can work something out on shipping to expedite its arrival.” I also called on this date and spoke with Damian. He told me the part would be in by the end of the week.

02-23-10 (Tues) - No part - Received an email from Damian that said: “It’s on its way!”

02-26-10 (Fri) – No Part – Called and left a voice message as well as sent an pm to Damian letting him know the part had not shown up

02-27-10 (Sat) - Received a pm from Damian that claimed the part had been sent and that I should have received it last week. At this point I was thinking things were not all the way on the level, so I responded with a pm requesting the tracking number for the “shipped” part.

03-01-10 (Mon) – Still no part. I sent a pm to Damian letting him know I had still not seen the link as well as this email: “I sent a PM to you on BinderPlanet in reference to this part. As of today I still have not seen it. I would like to know by which company the part was shipped (UPS, FedEx, Etc.), and what the tracking number is for the part. If there has been some mistake by the shipping company or my part has been re-routed somewhere I would like to be aware of it, since I have paid for the item in full. Let me know.”

03-02-10 (Tues) – Lo and behold, the UPS guy shows up at my door with a small box from D&C containing TREs and a flip sert. Still no drag link, though. I contacted Damian and let him know I received a partial order. I received both an email expressing some surprise that I had not yet received the part. Damian told me he now assumed the link had been “lost”, and that he would send me another the very next day. I again requested to get a tracking number from him, but never received a response.

03-03-10 (Wed) – Sent Damian a pm telling him that if both links (since he claimed now two were en route) showed up at my doorstep, I would send one of them back. I also asked if I would receive the part by this Friday, he claimed I would.

Today: Still no part. Left a voice message with Damian again requesting a tracking number.

So that’s where I’m at now. Am I wrong to feel like I’m getting “jerked around” a bit? Damian has returned my PMs fairly promptly, but I feel like this has been a less-than-forthright transaction to say the least. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to any light line vendor on the Bulletin, but when can I say “Give me the part or give me my $$ back?” Now I’m bummed cause if I order another link from someplace else, I may have to wait another 2-3 weeks for delivery; I just wanna get my scout outta the driveway and onto the trail!

Hopefully readers do not view this thread as “drama”, I just wanted to relay my experience thus far.

 

[Damian Grihalva]

Tracking number: K1682938011

Surprised that it didn't get to you today. Kinda bummed really. Looks like it didn't leave COS till yesterday (last night actually), but still, should have been there today. UPS has not updated the information since it left Denver (commerce city) nor have they given an ETA. Most likely will arrive Monday, but the TRE's and flipsert were also late. Must be a 'four-corners' kind of delay.

Matt's account of the transaction is accurate. Despite previous weeks, the machinist had it longer than anticipated, but that doesn't remove my responsibility.

As the part has shipped and I can do nothing to resolve this matter. I will apologize to Matt again and simply affirm the accusations, and leave it at that.

I'm sorry, Good night.
Damian

 

[Smithflyfisher1]

Tracking number: K1682938011

Surprised that it didn't get to you today. Kinda bummed really. Looks like it didn't leave COS till yesterday (last night actually), but still, should have been there today. UPS has not updated the information since it left Denver (commerce city) nor have they given an ETA. Most likely will arrive Monday, but the TRE's and flipsert were also late. Must be a 'four-corners' kind of delay.

Matt's account of the transaction is accurate. Despite previous weeks, the machinist had it longer than anticipated, but that doesn't remove my responsibility.

As the part has shipped and I can do nothing to resolve this matter. I will apologize to Matt again and simply affirm the accusations, and leave it at that.

I'm sorry, Good night.
Damian

Thank you for the response, Damian. I will be looking forward to receiving that part. No need for an additional apology, I know things can happen that are out of one's control. Like I said before, I am very willing to give all vendors here the benefit of the doubt. Thank you for the tracking #.

Matt