Jrc55
Binder Driver
Someone scrapping two scout 80 tubs in South Dakota. We're having an online discussion...sad. I'd pick them up in a heartbeat
Got a little further on my forward driver side fender patch,
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1977 Scout II body rebuild
- Thread starter Jrc55
- Start date
Got a little further on my forward driver side fender patch,
Jrc55
Binder Driver
Thank you, but you should see the pros. I don't need to go that far though. There's a point that going any further just isn't adding any value.
What I'll do is when all the metal finishing is done front to back, I'll clean and dual action (d/a) sand the whole fender. Then I'll cover the entire fender with a skim coat of body filler and block sand it off. After that I'll epoxy primer, then use a 2k high build primer after that for final blocking.
Greg Cejka
Farmall Cub
I was once told never to put the filler directly on the metal but maybe thats for patching. it was a moisture issue I believe and that was a while ago. With how close you are It might not be a big deal since im guessing there wont be too much of it left on the vehicle.
Jrc55
Binder Driver
People have run experiments proving that filler over metal has better adhesion, than over epoxy primer. Also, if you epoxy primer, then use filler, when you sand the filler, you get into bare metal again while feathering, before your second application of filler. So it can be a exercise of chasing your tail.
If I suspect any pinholes in my welds(which is rare with TIG), or it's in heavy weathered areas like the bottoms of doors or fenders, I epoxy front and back before the filler. That seals the metal.
Having done a lot of repairs on cars restored in the '70's and '80's, when you remove the filler, you 'may' see surface rust under the filler. The story goes that the heat from the cure of the Bondo causes condensation behind it. In many thick repairs, you may even find uncured filler, or moisture penetration from bad welds.
Back in the day, they used to put it on thick, as in 1" sometimes, and fast at that.
With the level of metal finishing and the light years in technology that body filler has come, you really shouldn't be putting it on thicker than 1/8". Also, the filler AND metal must be acclimated at certain working temps. It's improper to fire up a wood burner in a 30° shop and two hours later start body work. The metal is still cold. That's why you get deformation and the body work "changes" after a couple of summers out in the sun.
There is a lot of controversy on filler methods. It's better than primer, faster than primer, and cheaper than primer and most of it ends up in the floor
Jeff Jamison
Lives in an IH Dealership
I had a problem with filler over epoxy,it was not bonding correctly,switched to filler first and worked better.
Jrc55
Binder Driver
I agree. Filler doesn't seem to feather as well on the edges over epoxy imo.
oneof3k
High Wheeler
After two years of Scout body work, someone finally told me what I'm doing wrong! Your tips, documentation, and the quality and quantity of your word has been truly immeasurably helpful. To me and obviously many others.
Greg Cejka
Farmall Cub
Thank you for clearing that up, I wont be ready for body work for a while but now atleast I have a little more info to start with.
Jrc55
Binder Driver
I'll document all that too. I still need to dial in fenders, windshield frame, tailgate and doors. Once all my metal work is done, I can move forward. I still can't decide on paint. I really like the idea of a patina scout. I like the scout for it's rugged looks so best case is a Subaru color I have been eyeing with a flat clear coat
Jrc55
Binder Driver
What color is that?[/QUOTE]
I can't say yet. I want to break Instagram with it if it works like I hope.
Kohler
Farmall Cub
I’ve been looking into flat clear coats. Are they harder to spray than gloss? From what I have read you do a couple coats gloss and only the last coat needs to be flat, or satin, or matte... does that make sense?
Jrc55
Binder Driver
I've never shot a flat clear. My paint store just started stocking them by 5Star. Paint supplies are too pricey so I would not do a flat over gloss even it was recommended. I surely don't know to be honest.
Like any flat, it can be polished accidentally so you have to be careful. What you get is what you get they said.
Check this out...
I like the blue...
Kohler
Farmall Cub
That's sharp. Looks a bit similar to the cement grey I was looking at (until you made me aware of the difficulties on shooting metallic) with a flat finish. I've been keeping an eye on Subarus on your recommendation, seems every color I like turns out to be metallic, even though they look solid to the eye. If I go on PPG's interactive paint site it says Subaru only had 7 solid colors from 2015 to 2019. I'm probably going to do a couple test panels to find a color I like. Thanks for all the insight, and let me know when you get tired of answering my questions...
http://www.ppgpaintit.com/Collision...18,2019&Manufacturer=SUBARU&ReturnBrand=PPGNA
http://www.ppgpaintit.com/Collision...18,2019&Manufacturer=SUBARU&ReturnBrand=PPGNA
This is what I do, definitely not a pro but it has worked for me in the past. If your welds have any small pinholes in them a shot of primer will fill them up. The primer is then removed from the rest of the surface, then filler is used. If I do have a lot of filling to do (say a real beater) then I would use kitty hair instead of regular filler, then filler over any other irregularities, then prime etc. I also like to condition the metal before any filler just in case there is any very small amount of rust in very small scratched areas. If you have good access to the back of the panels you can also treat them in a similar fashion. If warrented the best method is to lead any bodywork instead of filler, however.
Jrc55
Binder Driver
No problem, Kohler. Not an expert here by any means!
Don, sounds like a pretty good plan that works! As a rule, I'd make sure that the primer over the welds is:
Compatible with bare steel and cannot be removed with lacquer thinner. That is, it has a catalyst or hardener and is compatible with filler.
Also on conditioning, I have had a HECK of a time and there have been lots of discussions on that online. I have used the ppg dx conditioners and kleen strip prep and etch. Both have you rinsing with water. They leave a residue that you can wipe off with your finger. I have a hard time primering over a coating that you can rub off with your finger. Do you have thoughts on that Don? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I ended up sanding everything back down and just dealing with epoxy primer
Just wipe it off with ospho (rust mort is also good) then prime. It will take care of any tiny amount of rust that remains and possibly you can't even see. If you are in a place where there is humidity it takes about 20 minutes for rust to form on raw sheet metal. The dry climate people don't have to give this a care so they are lucky. I always figure it costs so little to use ospho or rust mort that it's great insurance. I just put some on a section last night that I had flap disc'ed and it looked clean and shiny and when I put on ospho it showed a rust reaction immediately...so not as rust free as I had thought. I'm not a big fan of rinsing things off with water before I paint....remember 20 minutes (or less) before shiny metal rusts and you just chucked water on it to rinse. Just my thoughts on this others will no doubt have their sworn to methods. I like the two part primer BTW, way tougher than the standard stuff.
Jrc55
Binder Driver
As a matter of discussions, that yellowing orange you see is the phoshate coating developing, not rust. That's why the tech sheet calls for neutralizing it with water then priming same day. I use lots of water on bare steel when I am shrinking and it never flash rusts. I get rust from the salts in my finger oils or fast humidity changes if not in a controlled environment. Good tips you've posted.
We did the ppg metal prep on this hood. It yellowed immediately although it's hard to tell in the pic. Then we neutralized it, I ended up sanding it down again because I didn't see the advantage over blasted or clean steel.
I did make a phospho dip tank for 1920's rusty metal that is too delicate to blast but needs treated. In that case I'd say use it. Thanks for the discussion!
We did the ppg metal prep on this hood. It yellowed immediately although it's hard to tell in the pic. Then we neutralized it, I ended up sanding it down again because I didn't see the advantage over blasted or clean steel.
I did make a phospho dip tank for 1920's rusty metal that is too delicate to blast but needs treated. In that case I'd say use it. Thanks for the discussion!
Jrc55
Binder Driver
I've been dialing in sheet metal as time allows. Lots of work trying to get things straight. On the driver side fender I had it about dialed in but there was still "oil canning" in one section that wouldn't come out with the shrinking disc. I had to fire up the torch and use a quenching rag.
The passenger fender was pretty crumpled. I was going to splice in another section from another fender, but decided to start planishing it with a dolly and hammer and it's starting to take shape....
The passenger fender was pretty crumpled. I was going to splice in another section from another fender, but decided to start planishing it with a dolly and hammer and it's starting to take shape....