1971 800b Moderate Rebuild

[pouncey]

After complete disassembly of both ends of the drag link I made notes on the proper order of all of the parts inside each end. ****Let me just say right now.**** There is a video on Youtube showing how to properly reassemble all the drag link parts on a Scout 80. It is sponsored by a certain retailer of IH parts. That video is INCORRECT. If you watch it you will see that they assemble both ends incorrectly. DON'T FOLLOW THAT VIDEO. I'll show you the correct way here.

Here I'm removing the cap from the tie rod end of the drag link.

Behind that cap is this spring.

Behind that spring is this T shaped concave outer seat. Then is the ball which is part of the tie rod. Followed by another inner seat.

Take careful note of this assembly. THE OTHER SIDE IS NOT THE SAME!

The Pitman arm end is like this.

The cap on the Pitman arm end has a concave seat on it because it seats directly against the ball on the Pitman arm. On the other side of the ball is another T shaped concave seat, followed by a spring, followed by a flat plate. I'll post images of all of these parts in the correct order when they are clean.

 

[pouncey]

I cleaned up all of the parts and knocked all the rust off of everything inside and out. It turns out that everything was in pretty good condition so I skipped the $80 drag link kit, but I did purchase a new felt seal and metal dust shield kit.

There both parts are all cleaned out and painted with Chassis Saver. I didn't disturb the tie rod nuts as I didn't want to change the alignment from where it is. I'll address this later once this project is on the road. I put a very light coat of paint on the threads. It should still be easy enough to loosen and adjust the nuts at a later date.

Ok. Here is the tie rod end of the drag link. When I assembled these parts I went ahead and preloaded a lot of the spaces inside with grease. Those seats all have a small hole in the middle for grease to travel through when you pump it through the zerk fittings. Make sure when you clean these parts that you clean out the hardened grease in those holes! So, on the far right of the photo is the inner seat, it will seat against the ball on the tie rod. And then on the other side of the tie rod ball is the T shaped outer seat which is followed by the spring and then the cap.

 

[pouncey]

Now the Pitman arm end is different.

First goes the flat spring seat. Then the spring, then the inner T shaped seat. Then is the ball from the Pitman arm and lastly in the concave end cap which also acts as the seat on this end. Don't mix up the two caps as they are different.

Next I put on my new dust shields (which I painted to deter rust) followed by the felt. Then I greased each ball up pretty good.

I pumped each tie rod end with new grease, forcing out all of the nasty brown stuff. I then reassembled the tie rod to each knuckle with new rubber dust caps and torqued the castle nuts down to 45 ft/lbs. Then new cotter pins.

Oh! If any of you remember, when I disassembled the tie rod end from the passenger side, I made a rookie mistake and hammered on it to get it loose. I totally f'd up the threads in the process. Well after many attempts, a split die finally did the trick on cleaning up the threads. Anyway......

 

[pouncey]

Now, with the tie rod installed, I reinstalled the tie rod ball stud in the middle of the tie rod.

That gets a cotter pin as well. I torqued it to 45 ft/lbs as well.

Now, with all of the parts in their proper order in the drag link ends AND with the caps screwed in as loosely as possible, gently carry it over to the front of the Scout and place it onto the corresponding two balls. Firmly press the drag link onto the two balls until both ends SNAP into place. Now you can screw those end caps into the drag link until they both meet resistance. Do each one a little at a time. Your objective is for each ball to travel into the smaller tapered opening of that sort of figure eight shaped hole in the drag link. If one end is still in the wider, round part of the drag link opening, then loosen the other end so that they can both be adjusted correctly.

Now tighten each end until you meet resistance, then back each cap off to the next index in the cotter pin holes and insert a new cotter pin. Note: The springs are NOT there for absorbing steering input. They are strictly there to accommodate for wear of the parts. The FSM says this. So don't tighten the ends down hard onto the spring, thinking that you are dampening your steering feel.

 

[pouncey]

After I felt good about the load on the drag link internals, I pumped the two zerks with more grease and sealed up both ends with the new dust shields. Just bend the two pieces over until you can get those little straps into the corresponding holes and bend them shut. All done!

I'm officially done with my front end! Woohoo! I finally pumped the front diff with new Royal Purple 75w90.

It took about 1.5 quarts before it started oozing out of the fill level hole. Front end, done! Mark it off the list. Still have to plumb the new brakes, but I'll do that after I'm done with the rear.
While the jack was out of the garage I went ahead and jacked up the rear and put jack stands under the rear. Hopefully I can start on it tomorrow, with the long weekend. I had help from Wonder Woman getting the rear into the air.

 

[J. David Oldham]

Wonder Girl. Looks like a good helper. Great!

 

[pouncey]

After a long pause, the refresh on my 800b continues. I've encountered some unfortunate discoveries in the rear end as some of you may have read in some of my other posts. I'll detail them here in this thread along with a bit of a tutorial on my rear drum rebuild.

After removing the old rear wheels for the last time, I started to tear down the driver's side drum brake. First I made sure the parking brake was off and I tried wiggling off the drum. It came off very easily.

Upon further reading I discovered that I was supposed to loosen the star adjusting wheel first through the access hole in the back of the backing plate. I guess the brakes weren't properly adjusted. Not a surprise.

 

[pouncey]

Removed the other one just as easily. A few taps and it came right off.

My plan is to rebuild both sides with all new parts so I got to ordering. Both my drums said 212158-C.

I found replacements at Rock Auto. I ordered Raybestos 2311R drums for $27.79 a piece. I hope I ordered the right ones. When searching my favorite light line parts shops online I found that their drums were pretty pricey compared to these. Time will tell I guess.

I also ordered the Deluxe Rear Brake Kit from IH Parts America. It's a nice kit with all of the necessary bits, including new brake cylinders.

 

[pouncey]

Next I got out my air gun and took off the four nuts that clamp the retaining plate, backing plate, and axle housing together. You can access these nuts through the access hole in the axle shaft flange. Line up the hole and take a nut off, then spin the hole to the next nut and on and on until you get them all off.

A stout tug on the flange and out came the axle shaft from the housing.

If you've done this before and you look closely at this photo you might be going like this.
Yes, the PO pressed the wheel bearings on backwards. The race is on the outside. Not correct! Good thing I'm in here!

I should mention. You don't need to pull out your axle shafts just to rebuild your drums. I only did so because I planned on putting in new wheel bearings and seals. Good thing I planned for that since I found it all bass-ackwards.

I also have a broken axle retainer plate as you can see here.

 

[pouncey]

Which brings me to my next parts acquisition. I ordered a set of TABOR plates from Better Scout Parts. It came with nice new extended bolts, nuts and shims to completely remove end play in the bearing fit. The instructions included are very thorough and the customer service offered by John has been exceptional. I'll say more about it once it's installed.

I put the axle shaft aside and went ahead with disassembling the drum brakes. This is super easy with the axle shaft out. Make sure you take a photo of your brakes before you start taking everything apart. There's a lot of little parts here. Another good tip is to disassemble one side at a time. A brake spring tool, like on the end of those crazy brake pliers, is helpful but you can get everything apart with a pair of regular pliers if you want. First, loosen the spring tension on the pads by pulling back the adjuster lever and spin the adjusting screw so that you remove all tension onto the bottom of the pads.

Once that's done you can pretty much take it apart however you like. Once you pull the springs off it'll all be so loose that you can remove every piece in any order you choose. The brake pad hold down springs can be removed with a commonly available tool or with pliers also. Take notice that the pad with the most material on it is the rear facing pad. This is so on most vehicles from what I've read.

 

[jeff campbell]

this may help. download it and keep in your favorites. drivers side. '69-800 D-44--damn. geting pic.

 

[pouncey]

Notice on the inside I have an inner oil seal. Some later Dana 44s don't have the step or shoulder where it lands. Those axles allow the diff fluid to lube the wheel bearings. The general consensus is that if your axle has the step for the seal then you should run it. IH designed it that way and I don't have any reason to disagree. This seal is a National 473228. I yanked this out with my slide hammer. WARNING! This seal has a little cinch spring around the nitrile ID. This spring came out of the seal on both sides when I pulled it out with my slide hammer. Make sure that you locate that spring. I'm glad I saw it sitting in the axle tube. I could've lost it in there and there's no telling where it would've wound up.

 

[pouncey]

You may or may not have noticed in some of the photos, but my axle housing is pretty worn. It looks to me like a PO had a bearing fail and parts were flying around in there. I can even see repetitive marks running down the inside of the tube where it looks like the axle shaft exited at high speed at some point in the past.

There is a long and fairly thorough thread about my housing so I won't repeat it all here. Here's the thread. A short summary of the issue is that the ID land of the axle housing where the race seats is worn to the point where a Set10 race goes in too loosely. The FSM specifies that the race should be a "loose fit" but many Binder drivers have come to the conclusion that mine is TOO loose. I've got as much as 0.004" clearance between the side of the race and the axle housing land.

So the attempted fix will be to dimple the inside of the housing with a punch or chisel and raise up some metal to create a tighter fit. I may even Permatex glue it in. I don't want to glue it in yet though until I've determined if I need to use The TABOR plate shims. Again, more to come on that.

 

[Greg R]

Nice write up, and that helper Wonder Girl is down right precious. Just a tip here on I what I did with my Travelall; the axle wheel end bearing housings were hosed also. I mean really bad, the bearing races alone looked like 40 miles of bad road; pits, craters, scores. I used an industrial epoxy to restore the axle end bores so now the new bearings seat tightly. Before the axles would fall out in your hand. It now takes a few light jerks with a slide hammer axle puller. No noise and the ride is quiet. Industrial epoxy isn't cheap. All together it ran me about $150 for the kit, ( which includes primer, epoxy, & hardener), and making the dummy block to set the bearing bore up to spec. It was cheaper than another axle and more sure than the luck of a draw on a donor's condition. At least I know the outer races aren't spinning. It's an option you may want to consider.

At least it looks like nice weather in Burbank to work outdoors.

 

[pouncey]

With all of the brake parts disassembled the last thing is to get the parking brake cable out of the backing plate. This can be frustrating. It has a series of spring out prongs that slide into the hole and then expand to keep the cable connected. You have to find a way to get them all pushed down at the same time and then you can back the cable out of the plate. I've read that a hose clamp can work, but my hose clamps suck (Harbor Freight). I wound up using a screw driver and a pair of pliers. Frustrating but I got it out. Once the backing plate was free I decided to address the ugly thing.

I removed the wheel cylinder and got to work cleaning this thing up. A wire wheel cleaned this up fast, removing rust and grime quickly. Once it was clean it was obvious that the raised portions of the plate where the brake shoes ride needed some help. They were grooved deeply in a few places.

So I got out the MIG welder and put a few beads into the grooves and then grinded them back down flush with the original surface. This worked amazingly well and I definitely saved the cost of two backing plates.

A few coats of high temp black spray paint and the backing plate was awfully pretty again.

 

[pouncey]

When you disassemble the drum brake into a million pieces. Make sure you keep the parking brake strut, the parking brake lever, and the little shoe guide plate. These three pieces you need to clean up and reuse as they will not be in your new parts kit. I wire wheeled these three parts as well and sprayed them black too.

 

[pouncey]

Nice write up, and that helper Wonder Girl is down right precious. Just a tip here on I what I did with my Travelall; the axle wheel end bearing housings were hosed also. I mean really bad, the bearing races alone looked like 40 miles of bad road; pits, craters, scores. I used an industrial epoxy to restore the axle end bores so now the new bearings seat tightly. Before the axles would fall out in your hand. It now takes a few light jerks with a slide hammer axle puller. No noise and the ride is quiet. Industrial epoxy isn't cheap. All together it ran me about $150 for the kit, ( which includes primer, epoxy, & hardener), and making the dummy block to set the bearing bore up to spec. It was cheaper than another axle and more sure than the luck of a draw on a donor's condition. At least I know the outer races aren't spinning. It's an option you may want to consider.

At least it looks like nice weather in Burbank to work outdoors.

Greg,
I'm curious how you accurately applied the epoxy to create a perfectly round fit to spec? Do you do this with the axle still under the vehicle?

 

[Greg R]

I had a dummy block made out of metal to the exact O.D. of the bearing race. After prepping, cleaning and priming; the release, or parting, agent is applied to the block and surrounding areas that I didn't want the epoxy to adhere to. A thin layer of epoxy is applied to the bore. Then the dummy block is gently inserted and left there until things are cured. This is usually overnight. The next day the block comes out, the flash or excess epoxy is trimmed, and it's good to go with a nice firm fit for the bearing. The block is light and the epoxy firms up quick enough that there's no sag and things I think stay true enough, at least within a thou, that for the distance to the differential should not affect bearing life.

 

[pouncey]

I had a dummy block made out of metal to the exact O.D. of the bearing race. After prepping, cleaning and priming; the release, or parting, agent is applied to the block and surrounding areas that I didn't want the epoxy to adhere to. A thin layer of epoxy is applied to the bore. Then the dummy block is gently inserted and left there until things are cured. This is usually overnight. The next day the block comes out, the flash or excess epoxy is trimmed, and it's good to go with a nice firm fit for the bearing. The block is light and the epoxy firms up quick enough that there's no sag and things I think stay true enough, at least within a thou, that for the distance to the differential should not affect bearing life.

That's very interesting. I'm not sure I'm going to try that kind of fix but I'm glad to hear that it is a possibility.

 

[pouncey]

With everything off of the axle tube ends and the inner seal out, it was time to clean out the axle tube of any debris and old fluids. Holy rust scale Batman!

Both ends of my axle tube looked like this. Not only is there very loosely clinging rust on the upper surface of the inside of the tube, there was also a lot of debris sitting at the bottom of each tube. I used a long piece of all thread and scraped most of the loose rust off of the entire inner diameter of the tube. This took a while because I was very thorough. And I feel really good about my success at removing all of the debris without pushing any of it into the diff. I was very careful with lots of rags and brake cleaner. I swabbed it out until I could run a rag down the tube with it coming out almost spotless.

There's a lot of pitting left in there but it's clean. After it was clean I greased up a rag really nicely and swabbed the tube with it to coat as much of the inner tube as I could. I thought this may help keep the rust away in the future.

That's it for now. I ran out of daylight. Hopefully I can get back to the refresh next weekend. We'll see.