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  #1  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:35 PM
raleighrugger's Avatar
raleighrugger raleighrugger is offline
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Default Engine Rebuild Curveball

Well I was thrown a curve ball yesterday when I finally pulled the tarp and unwrapped my 345 V8 I had picked up 6 months ago. Turns out that it was a 304 V8 not a 345 V8 like the guy I bought it from claimed. Now before I get reprimanded by all of you IH veterans, who have collected a wealth of knowledge over countless years, let me give you the back story.

One month after buying my 75 SII (304/3sp manual/D20) I found a 345/TF727/D20 setup on eBay that I ended up wining for a whopping $50. I purchased it initially for the 727 since my girlfriend can't drive a manual and in the event she needed to drive the Scout, she'd be able to. Plus I figured that I could re-build the 345, and do some slight performance enhancements (4bbl or EFI/ignition/cam).

Well after sitting wrapped up in a trap at the end of my driveway, and probably off the neighbors, I used my new 2-ton engine hoist to put in on an engine stand.

Once out of the driveway and next to the workshop, I started to strip off the accessories and pull the valve covers & valley pan to get a better look at the valve train.

When I pulled my valve covers off, I immediately saw a big 304 stamp on the top of the head. I quickly looked down at the block and sure enough, 304.
Now at the time of buying this, I didn't know where to look to identify the motor, and for $50 for the the engine/trans/tc, who cares....

Well now I do. I already have a 304 in the Scout and was hoping to go to the 345, especially since I'd acquired a 345 4bbl intake and rebuilt Edelbrock 4bbl carb before making this discovery.

What should I do now? Should I go along with my previous rebuild/upgrade plans and use this 304? Which was really clean on the inside and was running when pulled. Or should I go out and look for an equally clean 345 to go over like I had previously intended.

I'll be swapping in the 727 regardless of engine choice so here will be my Scout's drive train specs:

D44's w/ 4.09 and Lock-Right rear locker
D-20 Transfer
S.O.A
35" tires.

This will be my all purpose rig, seeing both street and moderate off road use. I know it will never drive like a race car (I've got an E55 AMG for that), but I want to have enough grunt to drive to the mountains or pass people on the highway without having to floor it.

Any thought's? Suggestions?
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1975 Scout II
304V8/T-90/D-20/D44's-4.09's/SOA/35's

1975 200 4x4
345V8/TF727/NP-205/D44 & D60
"To be the Man, you must beat the Man"
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:43 PM
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scorp1us scorp1us is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

It says 345 right on the valve cover... Oh, but I guess not in your case.

Seriously though I was turned off from restoring my Dad's '72 304, but you know, I wish I had. Cause its still a Scout, and plenty powerful at that.

(Actually mine says "345A" on the driver's side valve cover.)
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:06 PM
Mark Pietz Mark Pietz is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

At least you have a hoist.

I once took delivery on a 152 that was said to be a 196. So when the yard sent a guy over ito retrieve the obviously wrong engine, the two of us muscled the thing into the back of the pickup. I was young man of 28 and quite stupid, as I blew out a disc in the process. What was that, about 300 lbs. each?????

No iron is worth that, even IH iron.
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:41 PM
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Tim Potter Tim Potter is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

I'd look for a T-19 wide ratio 4 sp tranny and clutch to bolt up behind your 304 if it's in good condition and up to spec. Tell the girlfriend she needs to learn to drive a stick. Tell her it's sexy

As for the 50 buck drive train, clean it, check the bearings for wear, put it back together and sell the whole shebang for the money to get the T-19. Or, sell the engine as an unknown.

Why?
1. easier to do

2. better performance: A 304 with a WR tranny behind it will work as good on the trail than a 345/727. That granny first is the bomb. It'll still push you down the highway at 65 with no problem. You get more power to the ground with a manual than an automatic. Performance upgrades on the 345 are expensive with not that much return on investment.

3. better gas mileage: a 304/2bbl typically gets better mileage than a 345 4bbl

4. saves you money!!!!!!
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1974 SII, 345, T-19W, D300, SOA, Deaver springs, D44 Alloy USA chromoly shafts, ARB front, high steer; D60, 35 spline semi-float shafts, ARB, disk rear, hydro boost, CV shafts, Bilstein 5125 shocks.
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:47 PM
Super Scout Super Scout is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

You could probably find a 345 cheap enough but that said. The 304 aint no slouch. I have one in my 73 all stock with electronic ign, accel coil, and dual exhaust it runs great !! Now I have 31s and a 4 speed with 3.73 but I could bet if did some extra work to it the motor would have plenty of grunt. I have 345 in my traveler wth 3.73 and a 4 speed and the 304 will out run it easily.
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:50 PM
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scoutboy74 scoutboy74 is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

A strong 304 engine in perfect state of tune is no slouch. There really isn't that huge of a Hp/Tq gap between it and a comparable condition 345. With your axle gearing, it should do well both on and off road. That said, if you think you're going to suffer from latent displacement envy going forward, you might just want to hold out for the big 'un...and i'm talking the 392! Might as well go for the gusto right?
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2010, 02:29 PM
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HayMaker HayMaker is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

This happened to me too, when i got the engine that is currently in my truck. On ebay, it said it was a 345. When i got there after the three hour drive, i found out it wasn't. I wouldn't have taken it but i didn't have any spare parts for a 345 and i have a whole 304 already that was(and still is) froze up, with as many parts as i could want, and it was a good price, so i took it. Its a pretty good running engine, definitely more power than the old worn out 266 that was in it before.
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2010, 02:39 PM
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Binder Brothers Binder Brothers is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

Don't spend your money rebuilding your engine, good running IH engines are inexpensive. I bet you can find a really nice one for $300-$500.
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  #9  
Old 01-20-2010, 05:10 PM
ihslave ihslave is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

I'd put a shift kit in the 727. I think a lot of people here would consider that a must-have upgrade if its already out of the vehicle.

I'd then inspect the new 304, clean it up, and put your 4bbl carb on it. You'll have to acquire the IHonly aluminum model($$) or spend less to have the existing one on the engine machined/modified to accept the 4bbls.

Then put it all back together and slip it in the scout.

What's nice about that approach is-

1) Least amount of down time on your DD scout.

2) Engine and drive train are already sitting there, out in the open.

3) A 304 with a 4bbl is a very nice setup. They get good cruise mileage, and with the addition of the second set of barrels, are SNAPPY.

Then sell your previous drivetrain and buy a set of Stan's Try-Y's. A lot of people debate the merits of them, but I noticed a big improvement in throttle response and torque when I put them on my 304. Either way, that 304 is a great workhorse.

Having played around with different combinations to get exactly what you're going for, that's what I would do. In fact, had I driven a 4bbl 304 sooner, I never would have swapped it out.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:52 PM
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raleighrugger raleighrugger is offline
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Curveball

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Pietz View Post
At least you have a hoist.
Yeah it was a life saver!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Potter View Post
I'd look for a T-19 wide ratio 4 sp tranny and clutch to bolt up behind your 304 if it's in good condition and up to spec. Tell the girlfriend she needs to learn to drive a stick. Tell her it's sexy
Not a bad idea, I'll have to take that into consideration.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoutboy74 View Post
A strong 304 engine in perfect state of tune is no slouch. There really isn't that huge of a Hp/Tq gap between it and a comparable condition 345. With your axle gearing, it should do well both on and off road. That said, if you think you're going to suffer from latent displacement envy going forward, you might just want to hold out for the big 'un...and i'm talking the 392! Might as well go for the gusto right?
Eventually when I build Trail Rig, the "big'un" will definitely be providing the grunt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihslave View Post
I'd put a shift kit in the 727. I plan on putting a shift kit in the 727 to firm up the shifts.

I'd then inspect the new 304, clean it up, and put your 4bbl carb on it. You'll have to acquire the IHonly aluminum model($$) or spend less to have the existing one on the engine machined/modified to accept the 4bbls. I didn't consider nor think it was possible to modify the stock cast iron 304 2bbl intake to work on a 4bbl. How exactly is it done? Have a picture by any chance?

Then put it all back together and slip it in the scout.

What's nice about that approach is-

1) Least amount of down time on your DD scout. I've got a good 304 in it right now. Minus a little rear main drip.

2) Engine and drive train are already sitting there, out in the open. I cover it...

3) A 304 with a 4bbl is a very nice setup. They get good cruise mileage, and with the addition of the second set of barrels, are SNAPPY.


I did consider going the EFI route. AFI's kits look nice, but a bit pricey. I could also do it myself, but I hate wiring and even though Bill usn-1 explains it in depth in the Fuel Injection sticky I feel I'd screw it up somehow.... However if it's the best air/fuel delivery upgrade to get more all around power and efficiency, I may have to rethink my stance on all the wiring.
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1975 Scout II
304V8/T-90/D-20/D44's-4.09's/SOA/35's

1975 200 4x4
345V8/TF727/NP-205/D44 & D60
"To be the Man, you must beat the Man"
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