Fullsize Travelall & Pickup lift using GM 4-spring 4" lift kit

[LeeC]

Project INTL 4X4 is getting a 4-spring Rough Country 4" lift kit designed for a Chebby 3/4 ton 1976-1987 Suburban with 52" rear springs and 46" front springs. I bought this complete kit in December 2007 on eBay from Top Gun Customz for their then sale price of $479 with free shipping & no tax. It includes the works.

Receipt says, Item Number 250H - GM 3/4 76-87 4" SYS and includes:
8002R - GM 73-87 4" SPRING
7562-2 - GM FR INST KIT SP SPR
7616 - UNIV. U-BOLT KIT
8106 - HECKETHORN HYDRO 8000
8112 - HECKETHORN BYDRO 8000
8200 - LEAF SPR GM 4" RR
6600 - GM STEERING ARM
6092 - CHEVY REAR SPRG BSHGS


http://www.topguncustomz.com/Store/G...iview=44083466

I'm not sure if I can use the shocks, but it appears all the other items will work. The price was so good it was hard to turn down for everything needed for "my" application including a raised steering arm and 5/8" Grade #8 U-bolts. My thought was that I can always sell what I don't use.

This "do-it-all" rig will see street, trail and towing use. It has a heavy 392 V8 and heavy T-35 5-speed with 1987 GM K20 axles. The rear is a GM Corporate 14 bolt 10.5" with 8-bolt disc brake conversion and the front is a GM Dana44 Heavy Duty with 8-bolt disc brakes. The frame is a 1972 Travelall 4x4 on which will sit a 1968 Travelall "Round-Body". This write-up should be good for other fullsize applications as well.

My Binder Planet research prior to purchase indicated that the GM 52" rear springs and 46" front springs were basically a bolt on with the placement of the front rear spring mount in the rear-most 2wd location on the 72 frame. Minor adjustments to the bushing widths would be required and the front axle may sit about 1" further forward once installed. The 3/4 ton GM 4" lift kit was said to yield about 2"-3" on a fullsize 1/2 ton IH 4x4.

All systems go!

PLEASE NOTE EDITING WILL OCCUR IN THESE FIRST FEW POSTS AS PROGRESS IS MADE. HOPEFULLY THAT WILL KEEP THE IMPORTANT STUFF HERE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD TO MAKE IT EASIER TO FOLLOW.

[LeeC]

REAR 52" SPRING INSTALLATION:

CHANGES REQUIRED:
1) New bushing sleeves
2) Trimming of poly bushing ends
3) Purchase: Energy Suspension FORMULA 5 PRELUBE

This is already completed. Everything was a direct bolt on except the spring bushings and sleeves. I used all the good 5/8" IH eye bolts. The GM kit bushing sleeves were too long and did not have 5/8" holes in them (they are 9/16"). I went to Home Depot with a GM bushing and IH bolt in my hand for size and purchased a steel "ROUND TUBE 1/16" THICK 3/4" X 36" PLAIN" from their steel stock that is normally on the hardware isle. It has a slight seam ridge inside that I planned to ream out after each sleeve is cut to size. I'm told you can buy tubing without any center seam, so if you know where to get that it will eliminate some minor work.

To determine the length of each of the 4 sleeves I just measured the original IH sleeve length. I cut them by hand in a miter box and cleaned them up on an electric grinder. After each one was cut I reamed the inside of the new sleeve with a 5/8" reamer. You can use a sharp 5/8" drill bit if you don't have a reamer. I tested the bolts for fit and they moved in and out freely.

I then turned my attention to the poly bushings themselves. As others have found, these need to have about 1/16"-1/8" trimmed off each outer lip edge. I did this with my electric chop saw with the smaller portion of the bushing sitting in a small portable vice I happen to have. If you don't have one, you can just cut a "V" in a peice of wood to hold each bushing square while the chop saw trims the edge.

After those two simple changes I put a generous amount of water proof boat trailer grease on the bolts and inside the sleeves, and bolted the rear springs up just like the originals.

That was easy!

When I ordered my front frame shackle poly-urethane bushings from Energy Suspension the kit came with their FORMULA 5 PRELUBE and the below instructions:

"When installing Urethane bushings, apply grease as instructed: Remove the original rubber and outer shell (when used) clean I.D. of spring eyes and frame brackets of any old rubber or rust with sand paper. Apply a light coat of grease to the eyes of both spring and frame brackets. Apply a light coat to the I.D., O.D. and flange of the bushings (all surfaces that contact metal). Apply a light coat of grease to the O.D. of the sleeves. Note: When a sleeve is not used, apply a light coat of grease to the original shoulder bolt."

OOPS! I didn't do that , so the rear springs will be coming back off for some proper urethane bushing lubing...

NOTE: Suspension Restoration Parts states they like to use Permatex or Loc-Tite Anti-Seize on the bushings, because it does not contain wax like the gease above.

Okay... after the change of plans mentioned below and the addition of custom fabricated 2.5" lowered front spring hangers and 5" front shackles in the 2wd location, I tried a reverse rear spring hanger flip with shackles on the bottom. Unfortunately, the 4" lift GM springs wanted to fold the rear shackle forward in front of the hanger inappropriately. This was not good!

I ended up putting the rear spring hangers back to the original position with the shackles on top and adding 2" blocks for now. I will adjust the rear height after the full weight of the driveline and body are re-installed. Currently the rear is slightly higher than the front.

Didn't forget to use the Energy Suspension Formula #5 Pre-Lube this time! The spring move freely and don't squeak at all. It appears these Rough Country springs are not going to be too stiff by any measure. They flex nicely with pressure apllied.

SIDE NOTES:
NVScouter welded up the 5/8" holes on the IH parts in the rear and re-drilled them with 9/16" holes to use the thicker GM supplied bushing sleeves. If you go this route you will have to buy new Grade #8 bolts.

My GM Corporate 14 bolt axle required new nice and thick U-bolt plates which I also picked up on eBay, because I forgot to get them when I pulled the axle. The 3/4 ton GM U-bolts fit the large diameter GM axle and are 5/8" thick Grade #8. Nice!

I did not install any rear blocks at this time. I plan to complete any leveling needed once the front springs are installed and I know what thickness is needed, if any. Plus I will be adding "anti-wrap" spring perches to the 14B and setting the angle prior to welding them on.

[LeeC]

FRONT 46" SPRING INSTALLATION

CHANGES REQUIRED (ongoing...):
1) Relocate the rear front spring frame mounts to the 2wd location
2) Drill out forward spring mounts to 9/16"
3) Purchase: 9/16" Grade #8 bolts (OSH has a good selection in my area)
4) NOTE: GAVE UP ON JUST BOLTING THE GM LIFT TO THE IH FRAME... (SEE BELOW)

WHAT I DID TO GET A TRUE 4" OF LIFT:
1) Relocate the rear front spring frame mounts to the 2wd location
2) Purchase one of the three frame shackle bushings below for YOUR application
3) Purchase 5 1/2" long Grade 8 bolts for spring and frame shackle in size for YOUR application
4) Fabricate a 2 1/2" lowered front spring mounts centered 1/8" further out on each side (for GM axle application), or leave centered as is for IH
5) Purchase two straight and two 1/4" off-set 5" long 3/8" thick A50 RSS spring shackles (for GM axle application), or others for IH
6)

Moved the rear front spring frame mounts to the rear-most 2wd location after grinding off the rivits from the original location and mounted them with new grade #8 bolts. Note: John Donnelly states a cutting torch makes this much easier. The rivit will melt out without damaging the bracket. Wish I knew that before grinding... Thanks John.

I also drilled out the forward front spring mount holes to 9/16". The pressed in step-down bolt on these IH fullsize monsters has a tendency to give way. I will use the GM supplied leaf spring bushing sleeves supplied. (Scraping the OEM front spring mounts, read on...)

Others have used Energy Suspension 69-93 Dodge 4x4 1" OD poly bushing kit (part# ENS52102G, enough for two IH frames). Thanks for that BigMookied (and confirmed by NVScouter). They fit IH frame shackle mounts, but have a very thin flange thickness.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
I ordered these, then returned them because I am going with the full 3.5" wide spring bushings and sleeves that came with my lift kit in front, but I'll leave this here for others to reference. I'll have to go hunting for some wider 1" barrel O.D. bushings for my application with 0.25"-0.5" flange thickness...

Another bushing worth considering is Energy Suspension #2363, which is ONLY contained within their 1973-78 Dodge Charger Rear Leaf Spring kit #5.2110 (enough for two frames and 4 extra large oval shaped bushings with sleeves that may work well for a body lift?). Barrel OD is 1.011, Barrel ID is 0.563/Fluted (Fits a 9/16" OD bolt, sleeve or IH shaft perfectly!), Flange thickness is 0.360/Beveled and Overall Length is 1.565 - according to Kevin at ES. This bushing looks like a direct Polyurethane bushing replacement for the IH OEM to me. Fits the OEM shackle shaft and 1" frame hole mount. Use this bushing if using stock shackle shaft or 9/16" Grade 8 bolt (Preferred bushing IMHO - I might see if ES can put a 4 bushing kit together for us).

What's in the Energy Suspension 5.2110 kit:

(If you want to use "rubber", then look at Mopar Performance P-4452987 or DCC-4452987 )

Use Suspension Restoration Parts #2180 bushing if you want to run a 1/2" Grade 8 bolt (slightly looser fit in frame and on bolt).

CHANGE OF GEARS...
I have now commited to lowering the front spring hangers 2.5" to match longer rear 5" shackles in the 2wd mount location. The 5" shackles are 1.5" longer than OEM and the 2wd mounts are 1.5" lower, so the rear front spring will end up mounting 3" lower. In addition, I'm hoping this new course of action will not require any shims (we'll see...). My expected 2" lift is now going to be closer to a true 4" (Yes, the rear will likely need some more lift attention after the front in completed)

Here is my final design (with slight modifications) for a 2.5" lowered front spring mount with dual 2" receivers and tube cross bar. The design adjusts out the approximate 1/4" difference in GM D44 axle spring perches by pushing each side out 1/8".

This design uses RuffStuffSpecialties 3.5" wide A50 spring mounts (part #0691003) and their 4"x4" large gussets (part #GU101) and Harbor Freight Tools 12" long 2" trailer hitch receivers (part #97095)

It's all getting welded together by my certified welding instructor brother. Thanks Bro! Maybe I'll take you fishing in the outback soon.

Here's the finished product:


Because of the adjustments made for the GM D44 1/4" wider spring perch width, I will be using one straight 5" shackle on the inside of the frame and a 1/4" off-set shackle on the outside. This takes into account the GM lift kit that has 2 1/2" wide springs and a bushing/sleeve width of 3 1/2" with a 1/2" bushing flange AND the IH frame shackle mount that is 2 1/2" in width using a bushing/sleeve about 3 1/4" wide with about a 3/8" bushing flange. The end result is a leaf spring centered 1/8" wider on each side to match the custom lowered front spring mounts. I'll be getting these from Ruff Stuff Specialties. Here's their 1/4" off-set shackle and a diagram to make this clearer:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...set-p-138.html


After a lot of research, I'm going with the Energy Suspension bushing #2363 (that is contained inside the 5.2110 kit) for the frame shackle mounts. I'll be running 9/16" x 5.5" Grade 8 fine thread bolts on the front frame shackle. No sleeve with a jam-nut & lock-nut at the frame and the sleeve provided with the Rough Country kit drilled out to 1/2" (5/8" OD) at the spring with lock washer and lock-nut.

Everything mounted up on the front end:
***PICS***

[LeeC]

STEERING INSTALLATION

CHANGES REQUIRED (ongoing...):
1) My kit came with Rough Country #6600 - GM STEERING ARM (purchase a 4" lift axle arm if yours doesn't)
2) (Researching GM V2500 box arm for fit)(You can also have your IH steering box arm machined to fit a GM end)
3)

[LeeC]

IMPRESSIONS AND OTHER THOUGHTS...

So far I've changed gears dramatically from just bolting on the GM lift kit, by designing my own lowered front spring mounts to engineer out the odd angle the GM springs leave your front axle at (requiring shims). And, adding two front 2" receiver mounts that I wanted for a tow bar, D-rings, rack, etc... Knocked off two birds with one stone here . I think this was time, money and effort well spent.

[LeeC]

Does anyone know where you can buy poly shackle/leaf spring bushings by size piece meal?

Also, how about generic thicker front rear leaf shackles themselves?

Most of what I find is listed buy make and model...


PS: I'm using NVScouter's write-up on Binder-Bench at JUST IH to assist with this as others have:

GREAT SOURCE, THANKS NVSCOUTER!
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...ead.php?t=6480

From what I can get out of his write-up he bought 69-93 1" OD Dodge spring bushings for the front spring frame shackle mounts. I'm guessing these are for a Dodge Pickup (?). Not sure what size bolts he used here or how he sleeved these, if any.

[bigmookied]

Lee,

I returned your PM, but then sat and wondered if you looked at the Cheby spring hangers? I do not see why you could not find a couple of these at the junkyard and make them work. This will eliminate the the need to fabbing up the bushings/sleeves to adapt to the Cheby stuff you are using.

Might be worth a look.


Here is the info from the Energy Suspension website for the bushings used on the IH hanger:

W100, 200, 300, Ramcharger 4WD

Front Leaf Spring Bushing Set
1972-93
5.2102
(38)(62)
spring only 5.2102
(38)(62)
1969-71 . . 5.2102
(38)(62)
spring only 5.2102
(38)(62)


Front and rear spring bushings (fits 1" eye only) - Footnote (62) - 1” eye only

[LeeC]

Thanks for the PM Armando -

If you get the 4 Wheel Parts item number for the frame bushings you used please post it here.

Here's a link to Balistic Fabrications pre-made Leaf-Spring-Shackles that might work and save some fabrication time:

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...es_p_1647.html

[LeeC]

This may be a dumb question, but here it goes:

What part of the leaf spring bushing/sleeve/bolt is the "moving" surface?

I'm wondering exactly how the "moving parts" move. As I bolted the rear together, the sleeve appears to be clamped between the leaf spring mount sides, so the sleeve is "locked" in place with the bolt. If that is the case, the moving surface is between the outside of the sleeve and the inside of the poly bushing and/or the outside of the bushing and the inside of the leaf spring circle end (not likely!).

The OEM IH leaf springs have the bushing pressed into the leaf spring and the sleeve is volconized (spelling?) to the rubber bushing. Nothing here can move, so that leaves the inside of the sleeve and outside of the bolt as the moving surface. BUT, the sleeve appears to be "clamped" between the leaf spring mount sides, so it can't move either Should the bolt not be tightened to the sleeve on the OEM rear? Is this different for the aftermarket poly bushings?

On the front the OEM pressed in bolts where fixed in place and the shaft had a tappered down thread limiting the tightened width so the inside of the sleeve and the outside of the bolt shaft clearly was the moving surface. The new bolts don't limit the tightening width, thus locks the sleeve and bolt in place. So, it appears the moving surface changes with the aftermarket spring lift bushings. Is this the case? Or should the bolts only be lightly tightened with a locking nut?

Understanding exactly what surface is supposed to be the moving surface will be very beneficial to understanding how these eye bolts get tightened. I don't want any of the components to be binding on this binder! This could be the issue for some that have posted here claiming their lift suspension is too harsh and unbearable, with the tires bouncing off the ground, etc...

Can anyone clear this up?

[bigmookied]

When I did mine I just sandwiched with a lock nut and washers on the outside of the shackle and only tightened enough to remove play. Not sure if this is the correct way, but I get pretty good flex.