Need help trouble shooting SD33

[RMP&O]

So I have this SD33 powered Nissan Patrol I bought back in early 2004. I am the 3rd owner of this truck. The p/o said the orginal owner brought the Patrol over from Germany and that he was a Benz diesel mechanic. The truck came with reciepts showing full rebuild on the motor. New sleeves, pistons, rings, bearings, new head from Nissan and so forth. The guy I bought it from gave me the story that the org owner rebuilt the motor about 1000km's ago, the truck has 331,000km's. It didn't run perfect after the rebuild and blew lot's of smoke so he sold the Patrol. The p/o bought it couldn't figure out the probs and left it to sit in a field for 2 years before I bought the truck. Well this is my first diesel and it is difficult for me to trouble shoot the motor. Here is what the problems are...

-when cold she blows huge amounts of white smoke. This eventually goes away if I let it idle but this takes a good 20-30 mins of idling. And if revved while idling to warm up it still blows huge clouds of white smoke. If I jump in the truck after 5-10mins of warming up and drive it the smoke goes away faster. She will also miss fire badly when cold. Basically it won't stop blowing white smoke and missing until I drive it no matter how long I let the SD33 idle.

-Once warm and out on the road she blows a fair share of black smoke. Like a constant puff under load/throttle. But just cruising along at a constant speed with out giving it much fuel and it doesn't smoke. Also once warmed up from a drive it stops smoking at idle and also stops miss firing. Once hot it revs really well and has lots of power.

-If it sits for an hour or so after being hot it will smoke a little when started, white smoke. If it has sat a shorter period of time and is still hot it won't smoke at all once started again. Except for the black smoke under load.

-The temp of the motor varies. Idling to warm up it never gets much above the cold mark even in 95 degree heat. Out on the road in the heat of the day it may go as high as half way to hot. Up grades on the road it gets pretty warm but still never alot above half way to hot. For the mosty part the motor seems to run cool and the cooling system seems tight. But the temp of the motor does go up and down a lot depending on what I am doing in the truck.

I had the injectors rebuilt over a year ago by Denver Diesel. They were reportably in bad shape. She runs better since this but I still have the smoke/miss firing issues when cold and the black smoke when hot. I have checked compression as best I could (front 3 cyl only) and it seems to be a bit low. Average was about 380psi when the motor was cold. I have a reciept for when the org owner had the injection pump checked out and it checked out fine. Then again the injectors were toast after a full rebuild? I drained the old diesel right after I got the truck and it hasn't sat for more than 4 months at a time since I got it so I don't think bad diesel is my problem. I don't think I have a blown head gasket because it doesn't show the tel tale signs of that. It leaks no oil or anti-freeze and it also burns neither, there is no water present in the oil. I can see the head gasket is fairly new and there is no leaks anywhere on the top end of the motor. In fact it's only leak is a little oil leak at the rear seal which is pretty small. I am pretty sure my probs are in my injection pump and or timing. But how do I determine this for sure? I recently got the Patrol on the road and am enjoying driving it but want to get this motor dialed in. If it is needing a rebuild then it would be nice to know so I can start buying parts for that as money allows. I have a factory turbo for it and do plan to turbo the NA engine, I know a bit about what this involves. If all it needs is a good tuning then I would like to get it to a shop that can do it right. I think it runs better once hot because compression increases as the motor gets hotter.

So how do I trouble shoot my probs? Could I be causing more damage by driving it?

My only other prob with the motor is....I have some sort of power drain on the batteries. If I let it sit for a day or two with the batts hooked up they will go dead. The SD33 in my Patrol is 24v, I recently put in new red top Optimas. The glow plugs are converted to 12v with relays and so are the headlights. The auto g-plug timer is still hooked up because I can hear it when the key is turned on but it has a push button for glow plugs. The 12v glow plugs and relay is hot wired to one of the batts. For the life of me I can't trace the power drain, I have checked a fair share using a volt meter. Any help with this?

I have some parts on the way from Japan. New 24v glow plugs, glow plug timer and relay, starter relay, headlight dimmer relay and new 24v headlight/turn signal switch. I was thinking my power drain must be somehow related to this 12v junk on my 24v motor so I bought everything to take it back to 24v using factory parts as well as get it back on the auto g-plug timer. So any ideas on how to trouble shoot the power drain while I wait for parts from Japan?

So any help would be greatly approciated, I would like to keep driving the Patrol but don't want to do dmg to my motor. I would also like to learn how to trouble shoot it a bit more so I can nail down my probs. Sorry for the long post but I always feel more info is better.

Thanks a bunch, Ian

Here is a few pictures of the beast

[David Dixon]

There are alot of folks far more expert than I am who will weigh in here, but my first question is have you checked the thermostat? Second is have you checked injection pump timing? Both issues can cause smoke and will eventually foul injectors. I had a thermostat stick partly open on my 1981 SD33T and it would never reach proper operating temp at idle or around town driving. This wouldn't explain all the smoke though. Your patrol probably has a better cooling system than the scout which could magnify the effect somewhat. I had to replace all the injectors after only 3k miles too. Running cold for too long is probably hard on injectors.

The black smoke at open throttle could be due to poor combustion i.e.

- bad compression, but compression tests O.K.

- poor injector spray pattern, but you have addressed that.

- not enough heat in cylinder walls to support good combustion???

OR the smoke can be due to overfueling or poor injection pump timing.

- Number one cause of overfueling on a second hand truck is Hotrodding
by a previous owner. Our engines with the inline pumps have wire
seals over the places where you adjust the fuel supply. If they are
broken then someone has probably cranked up the pump.

-Injection pump timing on our inline pumps is hard for a shadetree
mechanic to check but easy to alter. You could change it and see if
that helped. Your truck probably has the MZ pump which I am not
familiar with.

Hope this helps,
-David

[zen]

oh sounds ill...

white smoke could be timing WELL out..or water in fuel(cracked head?) or low compression..(mines 450psi ++ and it never smokes) or no glow plug/s? etc..
but as its at start up, could be the cold start lever not being used) its on the start/run/stop lever on side of mz pump..however,even not using that lever it should not smoke for more than a few secs..

i would start with checking timing,as its cost free and easy to do..replace fuel filter and any sedimentry trap between tank and engine..

[RMP&O]

Wouldn't 380 be a bit low? Isn't low end 355 and normal 425-430? The start/stop/run lever on the pump seems to be working fine.

What is an MZ pump? I have a Diesel Kiki...Scouts have the Bosch pump? Is a SD33 Scout 12v or 24v?

The wire stops on the injection pump look to be in place. How many there is supposed to be I do not know...

I seem to have lost some power over the last 2 days and it is harder to start. In fact batteries seem drained and I am lacking volts to start. Had to jump it the last 2 days and my red top optimas only 2 weeks old. I installed isolators so I could disconnect the batts each day in case something is draining them. But now it seems like this may not be the issue and instead I may be over charging a battery which will burn it up? The gauge is reading 28v when the truck is running, is that to high? After shut down yesterday it sounded like one of the red tops was boiling and there was a small bit of fluid leaking from the black plug in the top of the battery. The hard start in last few days is also leading me to believe I have a dead glow plug or two or three.

If 380 is low on compression it would explain the black smoke. If the timing or injection pump plus glow plugs in trouble it would explain the white smoke. But is it unusual to have both on the same motor?

Just because I had injectors rebuilt how do I know they were done right? Anyone familar with Denver Diesel? Are all injectors basically the same because they didn't have specs on the truck or even have the truck. I don't think they even knew what truck & motor the injectors were from. Would any of that matter?

I am in Western Wyoming...anyone know a good diesel mechanic in Salt Lake City or Eastern Idaho? I can't get anybody to work on this motor including the Nissan dealer! I am not afraid to work on the truck myself but it is just confusing compared to petrol engines and also a bit intimadating.

[Marlon]

I too am no expert, just owned the same Diesel Scout for 30years. Replace that thermostat before you do anything else. Even on the coldest days in Illinois winters, mine would never smoke for more than a few minutes on start up. I have always got black smoke anything over 3/4 throttle, kinda normal for the sd33, black smoke equals unburnt fuel. Just my thoughts. Best wishes.

Sincerely,
Marlon
One family owned, special ordered 1976 Scout Traveler diesel.

[CareyWeber]

Ian,

This link is a good place to look for an injection pump shop.

http://www.diesel.org/pubs/directory...ember_list.htm

Did you remove the all glow plugs when you did your compression test if not that could give you low readings.

Black smoke is unburned fuel 1st place to look is the air filter is it clean.

Startup smoke well what shape are your glow plugs in? Are they suppose to be 24v and you have them running on 12v?

MZ is a type of govenor on the Kiki pump do a search onn Tug and my user ID and you find some pic and info.

I got to get to work.

Glad to see you made it here Ian I've seen you other forums.

Carey

[truck mechanic]

I had a same time of problem in an old cat 3208, once hot it ran ok but on cold start it would fill a large shop with white smoke in no time. turned out to be a bad inj. pump
Paul

[RMP&O]

thanks for the replies all...

I have got some things in the works for the SD33 such as...all the filters changed, new thermostat, compression test done right (don't think I did it right before) and other items coming from Japan.

Yes I have 12v g-plugs on a 24v system. They are wired in using relays to convert from 24v to 12v I assume and they are on a push button. This will be replaced when parts show from Japan.

I think my battery drain may not be a drain at all now. It may in fact be either a bad alt or a bad voltage reg. which is causing over charging and burining up one or both batts.

[RMP&O]

I thought I would report back on what I have found and done to my SD33 MQ Patrol....

First not all Scout parts work on the Patorl SD33 and vise versa. The air filter is definately different. I picked up two air filters, one is the KNN from Napa and the other is the UD Nissan one from Jesco, neither will fit my air filter housing.

The oil filter is the same, canister type. I put in the UD one from Jesco and also order up a Fleetguard one for spare. The UD one fits perfect and matched the old one that came out 100%. The Fleetguard is also nearly a perfect match but it seems to me to be about 3-5mm shorter in length. I think the Fleetguard is good though and will work fine. As I am sure you all know changing the oil in this beast is a huge PITA! What a mess!! In my 86 Nissan parts book it shows Nissan went to a canister spin on filter around 1984. It appears to me a person could simply get thier hands on the spin on housing and use a spin on filter from there. I am sure I can source a used or new spin on housing in Aus and will likely do this to my Patrol.

The Scout fuel filter is different from my stock Patrol filter. It is much shorter in length and lacks the drain on the bottem of the filter to remove water. Otherwise it went on just fine and works well. I couldn't believe the amont of funk that was in the fuel filter. Nearly a half cup of funky chunky rusty crud and a few tablespoons of water! How long the filter has been fouled I do not know but it has been since before I got the truck nearly 3yrs ago. I do think my fuel system is clean now because when I got the truck I drain the old diesel from the tank which wasn't very clean. I don't think my tank is rusty and I should be in good shape now. Maybe just change the filter again after 500 miles and see what is in there. If the filter is real dirty in 500 miles I may have to get the tank cleaned and all the lines pressure flushed. The truck runs way better now after the filter change which is great! I thought I had a secondary filter which is inline right before the actual fuel filter. It is a glass bolw type thingy...I ordered up some secondary filters. But it turns out this is not a stock item, I was confused because I couldn't find it in my parts book. It is simply an after market bowl of some english brand. In fact I don't think there is a filter in it at all. I couldn't get the bowl off, it seems to just serve the purpose of seperating water from fuel. The bottem of the bowl has a screw which can be used to dump fuel or more to the point water. If the screw is loosened you can easily pump diesel out the bottem of this bowl with the hand primer. This set up seems to be doing no harm so for now I will leave it in place.

My front diff was very clean but I changed it anyways. The tranny/transfer was pretty dirty and got new gear oil, she shifts a bit better now and is quiter in the boxes. I haven't checked the rear diff yet but will today, it is an LSD but I got the right fluid for it if it needs a change.

My SD33 is a factory 24v system. And I have some elctrical probs. My alt is the Euro version which is the Hitachi with internal voltage regulator, 24v-25amp Hitachi alt. The p/o put in some 12v headlights and 12v glow plugs. He used what appears to be relays or little 24v-12v covertor pods. But what is going on is an unbalanaced charge rate on the batts. One batts is getting overcharge and the other undercharged. The result is fouled batts and I am currently working on fixing this problem. Since Scouts are 12v I won't go into this much more because I think it is of little interest to you guys....but I am dealing with alt/electrical probs and am working on getting them dialed out of the truck.

[CareyWeber]

Originally Posted by RMP&O

I thought I would report back on what I have found and done to my SD33 MQ Patrol....

First not all Scout parts work on the Patorl SD33 and vise versa. The air filter is definately different. I picked up two air filters, one is the KNN from Napa and the other is the UD Nissan one from Jesco, neither will fit my air filter housing.

The oil filter is the same, canister type. I put in the UD one from Jesco and also order up a Fleetguard one for spare. The UD one fits perfect and matched the old one that came out 100%. The Fleetguard is also nearly a perfect match but it seems to me to be about 3-5mm shorter in length. I think the Fleetguard is good though and will work fine. As I am sure you all know changing the oil in this beast is a huge PITA! What a mess!! In my 86 Nissan parts book it shows Nissan went to a canister spin on filter around 1984. It appears to me a person could simply get thier hands on the spin on housing and use a spin on filter from there. I am sure I can source a used or new spin on housing in Aus and will likely do this to my Patrol.

The Scout fuel filter is different from my stock Patrol filter. It is much shorter in length and lacks the drain on the bottem of the filter to remove water. Otherwise it went on just fine and works well. I couldn't believe the amont of funk that was in the fuel filter. Nearly a half cup of funky chunky rusty crud and a few tablespoons of water! How long the filter has been fouled I do not know but it has been since before I got the truck nearly 3yrs ago. I do think my fuel system is clean now because when I got the truck I drain the old diesel from the tank which wasn't very clean. I don't think my tank is rusty and I should be in good shape now. Maybe just change the filter again after 500 miles and see what is in there. If the filter is real dirty in 500 miles I may have to get the tank cleaned and all the lines pressure flushed. The truck runs way better now after the filter change which is great! I thought I had a secondary filter which is inline right before the actual fuel filter. It is a glass bolw type thingy...I ordered up some secondary filters. But it turns out this is not a stock item, I was confused because I couldn't find it in my parts book. It is simply an after market bowl of some english brand. In fact I don't think there is a filter in it at all. I couldn't get the bowl off, it seems to just serve the purpose of seperating water from fuel. The bottem of the bowl has a screw which can be used to dump fuel or more to the point water. If the screw is loosened you can easily pump diesel out the bottem of this bowl with the hand primer. This set up seems to be doing no harm so for now I will leave it in place.

My front diff was very clean but I changed it anyways. The tranny/transfer was pretty dirty and got new gear oil, she shifts a bit better now and is quiter in the boxes. I haven't checked the rear diff yet but will today, it is an LSD but I got the right fluid for it if it needs a change.

My SD33 is a factory 24v system. And I have some elctrical probs. My alt is the Euro version which is the Hitachi with internal voltage regulator, 24v-25amp Hitachi alt. The p/o put in some 12v headlights and 12v glow plugs. He used what appears to be relays or little 24v-12v covertor pods. But what is going on is an unbalanaced charge rate on the batts. One batts is getting overcharge and the other undercharged. The result is fouled batts and I am currently working on fixing this problem. Since Scouts are 12v I won't go into this much more because I think it is of little interest to you guys....but I am dealing with alt/electrical probs and am working on getting them dialed out of the truck.

Ian,

If your Fleetguard filter is LF720 then the 3mm to 5mm will not be a issue it is the correct filter per Baldwin.

http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/

Fuel filter I would looking into replacing that glass Euro one with a common US one. I have a GM 6.5TD fuel filter assembly (has heat and a water sensor. The filter from a Dodge Cummins or a Ford Powerstroke would work too. Racor also makes a great filter I have two one is a 445 (has built in primer) and the other is a 645 (no primer pump). Racors can be found on ebay.

I would look into converting it to 12 volt (pm me).

Carey