front axle sways 3" to left in 4wd

[blondejonscout79]

i am now starting to learn that "custom" can be synonymous with "unsafe" and/or "stupid"
i picked up a 79 scoutII in oct, and have been trying to get it ready for the all the trails i wanna run this summer. its only my second scout, but im still in college. anyway the guy welded the front ( full spools on 1/2 ton axles?)
not the worst idea i guess. oh wait, it gets better. soa: 12 bolt rear w/posi, d44 front(welded) and he took out the hard leaf springs in the spring packs for better flex. 52" chevies in rear, wagoneer 44044 in front, 8" shackles front/rear. it flexs great. but every turn i make leads to the body leaning over for a while( cop pulls me over "ya know you veichle leans dramatically to the left?" "yep") anyway ive slowly been takin care of this, add a leafs in the rear solved alot of this, i have rs9000's and im gonna relocate the rear shocks a little further out for a less dramatic pivot point. lets get to the good stuff : in 4wd (im guessing due to torque from 345 and the welded "full spool" front)
while im turning (only in 4)the front axle will shift dramatically to the left/right. like the front shackles will shift like 45 degrees, where the bottom and top are 3-4" and some terrible metal creaking front end noises start to occur. it sounds like the shackles are gonna bust off and like my springs just wanna snap and die. people that see it are baffled.... oh yeah, for now my front shackle bolts are bent, its quite a site to see. good times....

im thinking making some new thicker shackles will fix it, like say 4" x2" x1/2" (currently 8"x2"x3/8") ill stick w/ 1/2" grade 8 bolts as though.
, and hopefully this will prevent the axle from shifting, and hopefully get rid of that noise when i turn in 4wd. but.....could my left front hub/wheel bearing/axle shaft be causing any of this as well? i was considering changing out the hubs, replace wheel bearings, new axle u-joints?
if any of you guys have any ideas i would greatly appreciate it. thanks for readin this and for your time guys ."anything will help, will work for 4wd advice"

[BO185]

If your driving on the street ditch the weld diffs! All your will do is brake more stuff. Go selectable or drop-in locker!

And the front shackles need to be upgraded to match the rest of the mods. already don't. And it sounds like your onthe right track with the ideas you have.

As for the sway you need to rig up some type of sway bar. If you find the stock bar that goes between the front shackles it will help some.
I know addco makes a sway bar for the front and rear of the scout. But it'll need to be mod. to fit the SOA and make it to were you can disconnect the end links. They will fix the sway problem.

[blondejonscout79]

i forgot to mention i have a front shackle reversal, so stock shackle sway bar is outta the question. do you think heim joints from axle to frame would be better than a sway bar? im afraid sway bar will take away from off road capabilities. i guess i could make one with disconnects though... what are the cons of welded diffs on the street anyway? it handles great on the street...does it wear down all of my steering faster and put too much stress on front axle/diff/spiders/ etc...?

[budget76]

I don't have much experience with this subject, but two things come to mind. If your shackle reversal has ''fangs'' or they are somewhat long, do they have a bar connecting the two so that they are sturdier? Also, for your shackles, did he/you do the through-the-frame mount, and if you did, did you sleeve it?

After thinking about it a little more, with the shackle reversal, and welded diff, to me it makes sense that it moves that the axle would move back on the side you're turning, like turning right the passenger side moves back. With the welded diff, both tires want to spin at the same rate, and the inner tire on the turn needs to spin slower, and before it can do that it provides pressure to the spring, making it shift backwards because of the shackle reversal.
The way i'm thinking about it is that the inner tire would have the same effect when turning as it would if that brake was locked up, the axle will want to move forward on the other side, and the one thats the inner/locked up would want to move backwards.

That idea makes sense to me, but I could be thinking about it wrong. I dont think so, though

[BO185]

Originally Posted by blondejonscout79

i forgot to mention i have a front shackle reversal, so stock shackle sway bar is outta the question. do you think heim joints from axle to frame would be better than a sway bar? im afraid sway bar will take away from off road capabilities. i guess i could make one with disconnects though... what are the cons of welded diffs on the street anyway? it handles great on the street...does it wear down all of my steering faster and put too much stress on front axle/diff/spiders/ etc...?

I have been looking at modifing the addco bar for my rig. And get som longer endlinks with disconnects. The weld diff is only bad if you drive on pavement. And it will tend to drive stright and not turn under certain conditions.

I would post pictures of you rig picture would help a bunch! If you can't post the pictures E-mail them to me and I'll post them for you. Bo185@yahoo.com

[blondejonscout79]

yah i drive it on pavement, not alot though, im planning on driving it to/back from every trail. im sure the welded diff is hard on everything on pavement, but it steers/handles very well (i thank the hydro assist for hiding my steering probs, but it really is worth it, way better than dual/quad stabilizers i say), but i worry about prematurely wearing down everything in my drivetrain/front suspension because of it. ill try to post pics today, if you end doing anything with that addco sway bar BO185 lemme know, whats the cost too of that thing? im guessing you have to add some length on the bottom and sides...although my buddy is slowly convincing me to fab one outta chromoly at his shop, im too damn cheap! but damn itd be nice...

as for the shackes, the PO welded some round tube hanger, open on both ends, to mount the shackle to, unlike a normal shackle mount where its pretty much two tabs, one on each side, actually , now that i think about, that might have alot to do with it, i could re-do the shackle mounts i guess in addition to shorter, thicker shackles... and theres no way to weld a bar accross them, itd smack on the front driveshaft...

[blondejonscout79]

here are some pics:
[IMG]P1010042.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]P1010040.JPG[/IMG]

[blondejonscout79]

i dont know why it wont put up the pics, so i just threw some on craigslist
(its not for sale)
anyway go to craigslist for san fransisco bay area and type in scout in autos for sale, youll see blondejons 79 scout pop up, there are pics, sorry for the long way of doing things...

[BO185]

Hows this! Looks like you need to move the shakle mount at the top back a little and go with shorter shackles. Unless you want the flex. THe Addco bars $110 each not to mention they will have to be mod. to work. I was looking at mod a jeep front sway bar as well.

PICTURES of BlondeJons Scout!

[Chrispucci]

With the long shackles - the flexy springs and the angle of the shackle - I'm not surprised that you have a lot of axle movement on the road.

You have almost zero lateral stabilityt built into the system and the flexy springs are allowing it to really move the shackles around alot.

I'd give a second vote for reworking the shackle mount and going with a shorter shackle.


Just thinking out loud....

I also wonder if the ram assist steering isn't making the problem worse, when it pushes the tie rod around it might have enough 'push' to make the whole axle pivot around the drag link, if they drag link/pitman arm are not moving as fast/at the same rate as the ram assist. And with shackles in the rear it would make the movement show up back there as lateral movement.

I don't think I just made any sense....