rebuilding a 304

[doczg]

I just purchased my 1st scout today, it is a running '69 800, with a 304. Even though the engine runs it doesnt run too well, its the original engine and has never been rebuilt. From what i have read is that the engine is in fact an AMC motor, and i wanted to make sure that i could just use a rebuild kit for an AMC or are the IHC motors different in some way.

[ScoutmanSV]

Welcome to the BB!

An IHC 304 SV is not an AMC/Jeep 304. You'll need an IHC 304 SV rebuild kit & parts (try the vendors). Any shop that tells you it is an AMC engine > turn your back & walk away: they don't know what they are talking about.

My 304 is a couple thousand miles away from 500,000mi & it's never even had the heads off. These are truck engines (not passenger car engines) & everything is forged (not cast). They don't rev higher than ~4500RPM (max power) & don't have a lot of HP (compared to a big 3 engine of similar cu in) but they have a lot of bottom end torque that is suited for the vehicles.

HTH,

[Erik VanRenselaar]

Originally Posted by doczg

...From what i have read is that the engine is in fact an AMC motor...

I'd really like to know the source for that info.

Many people think an IH V8 is on its last leg, when it may have quite a few years left on it.
I ran my low oil pressure/slightly ticky 304 for over seven years, before the abused (by previous owners) cam bearings got wiped out. Even then, I still used it (gingerly) for the next three years, until I could get an opportunity to pull the engine out and replace the cam bearings/cam/lifters/timing set. One of the cam lobes was also wiped out from the oil problem. Even then, I left the heads on, as the compression is still decent, and it doesn't seem to have any valvetrain issues.

Your engine might just need a good cleaning, tune-up, and a close inspection to spot any potential trouble areas.

[Tonka Toy]

I'd give 'er a major tune up, get the timing and carb reset, and do a major league inspection for any vacuum leaks. Then see where it's at. These poor rigs are often the unfortunate victims of barnyard technology and their engineers.

And I agree with Scoutman, any shop that doesn't know the difference isn't for you. Ask them if they can put 427 Ford heads on a 427 Chevy. That's about as similar as the AMC and IH 304's are. They just share a number, that's all.

Welcome to the board and to the IH addiction. And BTW, as my friend Carl from Binder Books says, "there is no patch to help with the addiction". And beware, even a singe Binder tends to multiply somehow!

[Joe D.]

Before you jump in and rebuild, give it a tune-up! A poorly running engine doesn't necessarily mean it's worn out, in fact, a very worn engine can often be made to run very well. Put a good holley rebuild kit in the carb, get new plugs & wires, cap & rotor, and file the points & set the dwell. Dial in the timing and the idle air, and don't be surprised to find you have a great running engine with lots of life left. Only jump into the rebuild game if you've got problems like blowby, bearing knock, or the like.

[doczg]

The reason i want to rebuild it is because the previous owner told me that the engine fouls some of the spark plugs. But i guess that could also be ignition related.... all i really had in ment when i say rebuild was possibly new rings and all new gaskets, cuz the engine has some serious leaks from every where... its really nasty. But from what yall say i just might open it up and clean out all the gunk and deposits, piece it back together and send her down the road.

I for sure want to over haul the ignition because the previous owner said he had all types of probs with it (fouling plugs...etc.). I was thinking of a Jacobs probably, and i wouldnt mind getting a new distributor, maybe a DUI....

If anyone has any other reasonable suggestions im open here.... Im not looking to make the most trail/rock owning scout on earth, i just want a sweet street ride for the summer and something i can run over around and through things with. Im not looking at spending 20k but maybe 2k and i will be doing all the work myself.

[BigEddie]

Fouled plugs doesn't mean a full rebuild is in order. Like the others said, tune the carb, check the timing, change the points and condensor.

Don't tear into the heads before checking the engine compression. Good compression means your rings are fine, and the leaks are possibly from the valve covers, which is an easy and routine fix. There also may be a leak from the rear of the pushrod cover--again, not a hard fix as long as a buddy can help you lift the intake manifold, unless you're a pretty strong guy--it's about 75 pounds to lift from an awkward position.

If I were in your shoes, I'd do what the others said, and also powerwash a lot of the grime from the motor, then check for leaks. It most likely looks a lot worse than it is.

[Dan Phariss]

Originally Posted by doczg

I just purchased my 1st scout today, it is a running '69 800, with a 304. Even though the engine runs it doesnt run too well, its the original engine and has never been rebuilt. From what i have read is that the engine is in fact an AMC motor, and i wanted to make sure that i could just use a rebuild kit for an AMC or are the IHC motors different in some way.

I would run a compression check before jumping into a rebuild. It will probably need cam bearings though.
Carb is probably shot and the distributor is likely loose too both will hurt how it runs.

Oh yeah, its not a AMC engine. You will notice its about 1/2 again as big as an AMC 304 and it has INTERNATIONAL embossed on the valve covers. Its a real life HD medium truck motor not a low buck passenger car engine. IH used the 258 AMC I-6 and a few AMC 401 V-8s but the IH SV (for small V-8) 266/304/345/392 are IH made engines.
Nothing from a AMC 304 will fit an IH 304 except maybe the carb and then only if AMC used the full size Holley 2bbl.
Also the IH SV times on #8 cylinder not #1 so this might be a factor as well. The uninitiated tend to time them on #1 then wonder why they don't run right. This info is also on the valve covers.

Dan

[Tonka Toy]

I'd be willing to bet that the "fouling plugs" thing is the valve stem seals. They seems to last about 10,000 miles and then start leaking. I know mine runs awsome, but it always gives a little puff O'Blue when I start it. Worse as the oil gets ready for changin'.

The powerwash idea is a great one too. Figger out where it's leaking before you attack the problem. Might just need valve cover seals and an oil pan or timing cover gasket.

[Dan Phariss]

Originally Posted by doczg

The reason i want to rebuild it is because the previous owner told me that the engine fouls some of the spark plugs. But i guess that could also be ignition related.... all i really had in ment when i say rebuild was possibly new rings and all new gaskets, cuz the engine has some serious leaks from every where... its really nasty. But from what yall say i just might open it up and clean out all the gunk and deposits, piece it back together and send her down the road.

I for sure want to over haul the ignition because the previous owner said he had all types of probs with it (fouling plugs...etc.). I was thinking of a Jacobs probably, and i wouldnt mind getting a new distributor, maybe a DUI....

If anyone has any other reasonable suggestions im open here.... Im not looking to make the most trail/rock owning scout on earth, i just want a sweet street ride for the summer and something i can run over around and through things with. Im not looking at spending 20k but maybe 2k and i will be doing all the work myself.

What plugs?? If it has Autolite 303 (?) its could easily be the plugs. If it does not have Champions install a set of RJ12YC Champions in it and see if it run better.
Most counter books (since the 1960s) show the Autolite 303 (now anyway) for the IH SV and its the wrong plug. It does not even cross ref to the RJ12YC. Some IHs will run on teh Autolite, others will start misfire an lose power in a week. While some here scoff at Champions I have never seen one fail. Something I cannot say for the Bosch Platinums I tried. The proper Autolite is the 85 IIRC. I have run at least 4 different plugs on recommendations found here and yet to see the slightest difference in any of them except the Bosch (worst by far, plugs puke ceramic into the cylinders).
The carb can also cause fouled plugs, bad thermostat as well or even the guys driving style.
I would do some serious tune up work before jumping to conclusions.
But like I said I will bet it needs cam bearings. Why the SV has this problem in its old age I have no idea. The IH I-6s are not afflicted so far as I know.

You can get a ReNewed IH 304 from International truck dealers or some of the vendors who appear on this site for about 3K exchange. A comprehensive rebuild can get close to this figure so its not such a bad deal. These are complete less the carb and fuel pump IIRC ready to install.
Dan