trouble with my remote solenoid install

[rusty_1977]

I'm trying to install a remote solenoid, because even though I just had my starter rebuilt, and replaced all the battery cables, whenever the truck is hot, I have to reach behind the front tire with two screwdrivers to provide positive current to the starter terminal in order to crank the engine.

I thought I knew what I was doing - I ran a cable from the battery to the new ford solenoid. From the other side of the ford solenoind I ran a cable down to the terminal on the starter - and put a metal bar across the old solenoid that is attached to the starter - to get potive current across it. Hooked the S wire to the new solenoid. Now when I crank it, the starter motor sounds like it's spinning, but is is not 'enganged' with the engine - so the engine does not crank. I thought maybe I still needed postive current at the S terminal on the original solenoid, so I hooked a jumper wire up - still does the same thing. Any ideas what I'm missing ?

thanks,
Andy

[310scouts]

ON THE OLD SOLENOID (attached the starter).... where you once placed screwdrivers to jumpo it... you should have a section of #8 or bigger wire constantly connecting the two.....

You should have the start button trigger going ONLY to the new solenoid.

Batt cable goes to one side, and solenoid (batt) cable now goes to the big lug.

(sounds like your starter just decided to give up the ghost at the same time!)

[mbf80]

Originally Posted by 310scouts

ON THE OLD SOLENOID (attached the starter).... where you once placed screwdrivers to jumpo it... you should have a section of #8 or bigger wire constantly connecting the two.....

You should have the start button trigger going ONLY to the new solenoid.

Batt cable goes to one side, and solenoid (batt) cable now goes to the big lug.

(sounds like your starter just decided to give up the ghost at the same time!)

I agree with 310. I did that mod this weekend and it sounds like you have the solenoid hooked up right. Make sure your jumper is heavy enough. I used 10 ga. and it works great. You probably did this, but there is also a wire that comes off of the alt. that goes to the solenoid as well.

Does your remote solenoid look like this? http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/a...achmentid=2489

Let us know how it turns out.

Matt F.

[rusty_1977]

I have a 10 awg jumper wire on the old solenoid, going from where the battery cable used to be, up to the S post.

The starter switch wire is connected to the new solenoid. But I'm confused. On the original solenoid, do I need the connect a bar from what I call the input side, where the cable to the battery used to be, to the starter side ? If not, aren't I simply adding a second switch to the circuit, rather than bypassing the original one ?

I wish I could draw I diagram here, because I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly.

[mbf80]

Originally Posted by rusty_1977

I have a 10 awg jumper wire on the old solenoid, going from where the battery cable used to be, up to the S post.

The starter switch wire is connected to the new solenoid. But I'm confused. On the original solenoid, do I need the connect a bar from what I call the input side, where the cable to the battery used to be, to the starter side ? If not, aren't I simply adding a second switch to the circuit, rather than bypassing the original one ?

I wish I could draw I diagram here, because I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly.

I may be wrong here, but I thought the "bar" was a substitue for the jumper. More clearly, I thought the bar went from the battery terminal on the original solenoid to the "s" terminal on it. Maybe that is your problem. I may be wrong about that, but mine works great. On mine, I just have the battery wire from the remote solenoid coming down to the post where the original battery cable was and a 10 ga. jumper from that post to the "s" terminal and that works fine.

You are right, you are just adding an additional switch to the starter. As I understand it, the starter now gets a better "shot of juice" because the start amps come from the 4 ga. battery cable, not the 16 or 14 ga. on the original? I think.

BTW - while you are running around your scout trying to get this mod working, dont get flustered and forget to disconnect the negative post on the battery while you are fiddlin' around with the wiring. You can really shoot some fireworks if you are not careful.

P.S. you could draw a diagram and post it here if you were a supporting member.

Matt F.

[310scouts]

Pay the $20 and post the picture.

[rusty_1977]

I paid the twenty, hope to get back soon with a picture.

I guess I misunderstood the whole purpose of the remote solenoid. I thought I was eliminating the original solenoid on the starer. But it appears that I'm just adding a another switch, to supply the solenoid ( not the starter) with more current.

The starter itself isn't getting it's juice through a bigger cable - it always came right from the battery over the thick cable. If anything, the starter is getting less power, due to the voltage drop associated with two additional terminals, and the new solenoid. But the postive lead that tells the original solenoid to close now gets it's current via the heavy battery cable, as opposed to the 16 gauge wire coming from the ignition switch.

[mbf80]

Originally Posted by rusty_1977

But the postive lead that tells the original solenoid to close now gets it's current via the heavy battery cable, as opposed to the 16 gauge wire coming from the ignition switch.

You got it, that is what I was trying to say. Have you got it starting yet?

Matt F.

[Tom Mandera]

It needs to look like this:



I use a 4gauge side-post battery cable, cut the "accessory" pigtail's butt-splice off and install a ring terminal.

The battery (side-post, remember) terminal goes on the big terminal of the starter, the smaller ring terminal goes on the "S" terminal. This is the ONLY connection you make.

Sounds like you might've bridged from the big terminal on the starter straight across to the "nothing ever gets wired to this" terminal that makes the starter spin, but not slide.

I then run the other end of the side-post battery cable up to my Ford solenoid.

All of the other wires previously on the starter get re-routed to the Ford solenoid, including the "S" and if so equipped "I" terminals.

A secondary upgrade I usually end up doing is re-routing the output of the alternator (critical when running anything over 60amps) to the "constant hot" side of the Ford solenoid as well.

For this, I use a "solenoid to starter" type 4-gauge battery cable (it has no pigtails for accessories) from the alt output back to the Ford solenoid.

-Tom

I should've added.. the benefits are more juice to the S terminal when you touch the key. As temp goes up, so does resistance, which means voltage drop. The short wire from the S to the power-terminal on the starter has a lot less resistance than the small gauge factory wire that comes down alongside the head and manifold/headers and to the starter S terminal after you've been driving a while.

The 4(or better) gauge battery cable doesn't experience the same kind of loss due to heat and resistance.

I've had "questionable" starters that would have intermittent problems get "fixed" by doing the Ford solenoid conversion on them.

The particular vehicle above is my '77 SII racer, sporting a 10.25:1 built to the hilt 304 and Stan's headers.

That's a simple Napa lifetime warranty starter, and it spins the high-comp motor over just fine with the Ford solenoid, even when engine temps are hovering around 240.

I run the same setup on my Travelette, which also sports inner fenders, a 9+:1 392/406, and Stan's headers. Starter works fine in it, too... even after towing 14-16,000lbs a thousand miles at 75mph in 100deg ambient heat.

--
d'oh.. one more benefit.. even if the starter wire melts to the header or exhaust manifold, you're OK (except you can't restart it) because that wire is "dead" *except* when starting.

You can pull the melted remains off the header and still start the rig without risk of a big fire.

It also means you can safely R&R the starter without having to disconnect the battery - handy if your favorite radio presets are important to you.

[Eric Jouse]

i has a similar problem in working thru the hot start problem. the is a fundamental mismatch between the scout starter and the ford solenoid. in the scout / gmc style of starter action, the gear is first thrown, and then the motor contact is made. in the ford style, the contact is made, and then the pinion gear is thrown.

the difference is clear if you disassemble each type: in the ford style the pinion is mounted on a spiral shaft, while on the scout there is no spiral (helix).

thus, when you use a ford style solenoid (and "hot-wire" the gmc solenoid), the starter will spin before the pinion gear can throw and engage. i know several rigs that experienced this problem.

for my rig, the positive cure to the hot start probelm was modifying the solenoid "piston" - which has a small centering hole at the contact end. after measuring end play and contact heights, i drill the center hole for a #10 machine screw, and locked a round-head screw into the hole. this cause the contacts of the solenoid to engage earlier, and easier. that was a year ago, an i have not had a hot start problem since (knock on wood).