First Time Engine Rebuild (Help Appreciated)

[joker51]

Ok I will agree with Bill on this, If you are gonna tear an engine apart. GET THE MANUALS. That will assist alot in what needs to be done. Also google on engine tear down or rebuild. It wont be the same as an IH engine but would give you an idea on what you need to know and do.
Also on the rebuild you will need alot of tools you may not already have. Honing tool, torque wrench and others. Would be cheaper to pick up the 304 from Dennis and just swap them. and then tear your engine apart and take your time on rebuilding it.

Ok here are some links I found on a search just for a little info.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...uild_an_engine
http://www.wikihow.com/Rebuild-an-Engine
http://www.aa1car.com/library/engine2t.htm
http://www.mondellotwister.com/Rebui...irstEngine.pdf
Hope these links help a little.

Joker51

[Dennis Bernth]

Other than creating a hole in my shop (that I will no doubt fill with other parts), my idea was that a 'running and driving' project is more likely to get finished than one in a thousand pieces. I'd venture to guess that a lot of the guys here have Scouts courtesy of somebody that yanked the engine, tore it partway or all the way down, and got overwhelmed at the cost and work involved and it sat.....and sat......and sat......until the wife put it on CL one day, or it was time to move and the Scout had to go. Don't like to see that happen, this way if the engine project turns sour at least the Scout is still usable and more likely to keep it's happy home

[Afireinside2285]

I would also say find a good used engine and swap it in while you re-build your current one. You could be driving sooner rather then later.

Good luck

[78_ScoutII]

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like some good lessons learned!

Luckily, my Dad had purchased the manuals a while back when we did the restoration. I dug them out, and will definitely follow them to guide the teardown. I almost forgot about those, so I'm glad it was mentioned. They are very detailed.

About the spare engine:I am tempted to purchase the engine and swap it in temporarily. It would be nice to get the truck going again. However, I feel like that might just be a band-aid for now. If I put another engine in the truck now, I don't know if I would ever get around to working on the original one. To me, the whole point of doing this is to rebuild the original engine to "like new" condition, while cleaning up the engine compartment. I don't really want to keep installing and pulling engines. I just want to do the job right the first time.

While the engine is out being rebuilt, I'm going to use the time to restore the compartment. I probably wouldn't do that either if I put an engine in there now.

I would be interested in possibly picking up the engine for parts however. I'm not sure what is wrong with my motor, but maybe there would be some advantage to having a spare around while I do the rebuild? What do you think?????? $125 seems like a fair price for a running motor.

Trust me, I am very motivated at this point, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get this thing running great, and looking good. Sounds like some of you may be worried about the project stalling. Don't worry it has been stalling for 2 years already, IT WILL get done.

I'll be starting the teardown tonight. I've got all my plastic bags and labels ready, along with my camera. Everything I take off will be labeled and photographed. I don't want to be guessing where things go later.

Thanks again!

[78_ScoutII]

Originally Posted by lightningflash

What dunes were you at...Silver Lake?

Yep, that's was my first time out there. I had a blast, until the truck died. Of course a big storm rolled in right when that happened. I was out there by myself with my girlfriend, so I had to go around begging for a tow haha. Luckily a nice guy with a big chevy blazer was able to pull me outta there. He had his whole family in that thing, and still pulled us out no problem. I definitely appreciated that!

[mporter52]

If there was a running motor near me for $125 I would snatch it up in a heart beat.

Mike

[BigBamaScoutii]

Thats what I was thinking 125 for a runnin motor. Wish I lived closer. Id get the motor just for back up, rebuild yours and you wont have to worry about it ever sittin again. Just what I would do.

[Tim Potter]

Originally Posted by 78_ScoutII

Hi,
I'm a brand new member here at Binder Planet. Reason I joined was to find some assistance with an engine rebuild I'll be doing in the upcoming months. If you would like to help, read on...

The Story:
I am the proud owner of a 1978 international scout that I rebuilt with my dad. We started the restoration when I was about 11 years old, and really never finished until I was 18. He presented the truck to me as a high school graduation gift about 5 years ago. I enjoyed the truck for a few years, until I blew the engine on my one and only trip to the sand dunes. I never had the time or money since then (2 years now) to fix the truck since I was trying to go to college. I just graduated and got a job, and finally have the time (and money) to do the job right.

The Truck:
1978 International Scout II
304 V8

What Happened:
While at the sand dunes, I decided to go for one more last run up the big hill. My girlfriend who was with me at the time advised against this, but I said "oh it will be fine". I had the truck in second, and really charged the hill. The RPM's may have been a bit too high. Sure enough she was right because the truck died at the crest of the hill. Then it started raining. Needless to say, she was ecstaic and kept saying "told you so". We finally got towed off the dunes, and later that day and I tried to diagnose the problem. The truck really struggled to turn over. Sounded like metal on metal. If anyone has any suggestions as to what broke, I appreciate it because I have no idea really. I was thinking maybe some bearing at the front of the engine due to a lack of oil from going up hill. Regardless, I decided to pull the whole engine.

The Plan:
This past Saturday, I finally pulled the engine out after two years of sitting. I wanted to clean up the engine and engine compartment anyway, so I didn't mind doing this. I figured I'd do a full engine rebuild while it is out, even if that's not really necessary. I don't know whats wrong with the motor, but I'm sure I'll find out as I tear her apart. The plan is to do a full rebuild, while doing all the right modificiations. I don't know what those are, but I'm sure some of you out there do.

What I Need:
Suggestions! I want to know what to look for as I do this. How far should I tear down the motor myself? What should be sent out for work? What needs to be done for a typical rebuild? What are good modifications to the 304? I have limited experience with taking an engine apart to this extent. Links to helpful threads would be appreciated.

THANK YOU! I just can't stand having this truck sit any longer. It's such a shame since I did so much work on it with my Dad. It deserves to be running. My goal is to have the truck driving down the road by September. Thanks for the help.

Originally Posted by 78_ScoutII

My current plan:
1. Take off all the excess "stuff" (alt, pumps, hoses, wires, etc.)
2. Get a stand and mount the engine
3. Start dismantling the engine? This is where I could use a little guidance. Where is a good place to start? Should I just follow along with that 304 rebuild thread? It would be helpful to have a super brief (generalized) procedure to go through. That would help me understand the steps being taken in the other thread.Something like:
1. Take off oil pan.
2. Take off heads.
3. Then do this etc. etc. since I really have no idea.
I guess I could go look up a beginners engine rebuild guide somewhere. Just thought there might be some IH specific things to look for, hence this post.
.

Originally Posted by Dennis Bernth

If you want to be able to drive your Scout this summer while you rebuild the engine, I've got a good running 304 down here in Northern IN that I'd part with for $125. I ran it for a good long time before pulling it to make sure it didn't have any issues, I've just got more engines than I have a use for.....

Originally Posted by 78_ScoutII

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like some good lessons learned!

Luckily, my Dad had purchased the manuals a while back when we did the restoration. I dug them out, and will definitely follow them to guide the teardown. I almost forgot about those, so I'm glad it was mentioned. They are very detailed.

About the spare engine:I am tempted to purchase the engine and swap it in temporarily. It would be nice to get the truck going again. However, I feel like that might just be a band-aid for now. If I put another engine in the truck now, I don't know if I would ever get around to working on the original one. To me, the whole point of doing this is to rebuild the original engine to "like new" condition, while cleaning up the engine compartment. I don't really want to keep installing and pulling engines. I just want to do the job right the first time.

While the engine is out being rebuilt, I'm going to use the time to restore the compartment. I probably wouldn't do that either if I put an engine in there now.

I would be interested in possibly picking up the engine for parts however. I'm not sure what is wrong with my motor, but maybe there would be some advantage to having a spare around while I do the rebuild? What do you think?????? $125 seems like a fair price for a running motor.

Trust me, I am very motivated at this point, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get this thing running great, and looking good. Sounds like some of you may be worried about the project stalling. Don't worry it has been stalling for 2 years already, IT WILL get done.

I'll be starting the teardown tonight. I've got all my plastic bags and labels ready, along with my camera. Everything I take off will be labeled and photographed. I don't want to be guessing where things go later.

Thanks again!

At times like this I wish I was more like Doug Shailor. However, since I am not generally as direct as he tended to be at certain times, I've got this to offer [not that it will make one bit of difference]

Are you really interested in learning lessons?
Here's your lesson. IH didn't build a SBC that you can wind out to 6 grand. You blew this motor because you were young and being stupid. You had no idea what was under the hood or how to treat it. You still don't.

The folks here are trying to tell you something and you aren't listening. By your own words it is clear that you are not qualified on any level to do an engine rebuild on your own yet you persist thinking that it's within the scope of your ability: even though you admit that you have no idea where to start.

It's not brain surgery but, for a guy with your lack of background and knowledge, it might as well be. Building an engine requires some very specialized tools, abilities, and skills that you are not going to learn on the internet. Even when you read the manual, it is written for a trained mechanic. You won't even know what questions to ask until it's too late. Your follow up posts will most likely be about what went wrong with your build. A full rebuild is going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 grand. These folks are doing their best to save you a lot of wasted time and money.

Are you really willing to do whatever it takes to get your truck running again? Do you really not want to keep installing and pulling engines? It is really your hope to get it on the road again by September?

If your answer to those questions is yes, Dennis is offering you a gift. Succumb to your temptation and take it. Use the time it takes to get Dennis' engine to READ THE MANUAL that you forgot about; ask questions here for clarification about what you read so to further your understanding of not just the engine but the entire truck. Clean up your engine compartment and do whatever else it is you think you need to do.

When the transplant gets there, clean it up and paint it: SV engines like IH red paint, not chevy red-orange, install the engine and drive your truck. This is the cheap way back to the dunes. This time.....keep in mind that SV's will run all day at 3500 rpm; they're not so fond of over 4 grand.

If it means that much to you to have the original engine in your truck I would suggest that you send your long block to Jasper and let them build it. Call them first, let them tell you how far to tear the engine down. It costs somewhere between $3500.00 -$4000.00 but you get a motor professionally built to factory specs, that's pre run and guaranteed. They'll even put a slightly upgraded cam in it for you. They also offer allowing you to watch the build of your motor at every station so you can be assured that you get your motor back.

If you are really smart, you will find a shop that will do the R&R for you so that if something does go wrong with the Jasper motor, the whole thing is guaranteed. This too is the cheap way.

Ok there...I said what I've been thinking. Good luck with your rebuild

[78_ScoutII]

Originally Posted by Tim Potter

At times like this I wish I was more like Doug Shailor. However, since I am not generally as direct as he tended to be at certain times, I've got this to offer [not that it will make one bit of difference]

Are you really interested in learning lessons?
Here's your lesson. IH didn't build a SBC that you can wind out to 6 grand. You blew this motor because you were young and being stupid. You had no idea what was under the hood or how to treat it. You still don't.

The folks here are trying to tell you something and you aren't listening. By your own words it is clear that you are not qualified on any level to do an engine rebuild on your own yet you persist thinking that it's within the scope of your ability: even though you admit that you have no idea where to start.

It's not brain surgery but, for a guy with your lack of background and knowledge, it might as well be. Building an engine requires some very specialized tools, abilities, and skills that you are not going to learn on the internet. Even when you read the manual, it is written for a trained mechanic. You won't even know what questions to ask until it's too late. Your follow up posts will most likely be about what went wrong with your build. A full rebuild is going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 grand. These folks are doing their best to save you a lot of wasted time and money.

Are you really willing to do whatever it takes to get your truck running again? Do you really not want to keep installing and pulling engines? It is really your hope to get it on the road again by September?

If your answer to those questions is yes, Dennis is offering you a gift. Succumb to your temptation and take it. Use the time it takes to get Dennis' engine to READ THE MANUAL that you forgot about; ask questions here for clarification about what you read so to further your understanding of not just the engine but the entire truck. Clean up your engine compartment and do whatever else it is you think you need to do.

When the transplant gets there, clean it up and paint it: SV engines like IH red paint, not chevy red-orange, install the engine and drive your truck. This is the cheap way back to the dunes. This time.....keep in mind that SV's will run all day at 3500 rpm; they're not so fond of over 4 grand.

If it means that much to you to have the original engine in your truck I would suggest that you send your long block to Jasper and let them build it. Call them first, let them tell you how far to tear the engine down. It costs somewhere between $3500.00 -$4000.00 but you get a motor professionally built to factory specs, that's pre run and guaranteed. They'll even put a slightly upgraded cam in it for you. They also offer allowing you to watch the build of your motor at every station so you can be assured that you get your motor back.

If you are really smart, you will find a shop that will do the R&R for you so that if something does go wrong with the Jasper motor, the whole thing is guaranteed. This too is the cheap way.

Ok there...I said what I've been thinking. Good luck with your rebuild

Thanks for being honest Tim. I admit that I was (still am) young, and stupid at times. I completely take responsibility for what happened to my truck. That's where I am trying to turn around, and is the only reason why I am here asking for asistance. I want to LEARN about these trucks and their motors. I want to do the job RIGHT. Not just some half-A** attempt, because thats not how I do things. I now know that 4K is the limit, which is something I didn't know before. A tach might be a future addition.

Something I want to make clear. I have no intentions of doing this rebuild myself and never did. I know I don't have the required tools or knowlege. What I came here to find out is, how far should I go myself, knowning that I'm a beginner. What do I need to send out for work? Who should I send my parts to for work? I don't really know the lingo with engine builds, (what do you mean by R&R?) so an explanation of what to tell an engine builder would be helpful. I know there are people out there that have done this before, and there have to be some lessons learned about these engines. Thats what im looking for here, knowledge on these engines so I don't make the same mistakes. I've been trying to search the forum for answers, which I have been finding.

I know dealing with a beginner on this stuff can be frustrating. I'm sorry if I came across as totally incompetent. But there is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. I'm going to try and stick up for myself a little here. I may only be fresh out of college, but I am a trained Mechanical Engineer. Basically all that means is I was able to do a lot of math, but I do consider myself fairly intelligent, and I feel competent enough to LEARN anything necessary to do a good job. I don't claim to know a lot about bulding engines, as that's something that isn't covered in math class, but I've spent my whole life tinkering with cars, motorcycles, outboard motors, lawnmowers, etc. I know my way around a tool box. I've just never torn an engine apart that had more than one cylinder. Especially one that means so much to me. I'm not attemting to claim that I can learn how to rebuild an engine from the internet. I know that there are skills that can only be taught by an experienced mechanic.

So on that note, I already contacted Dennis and very much appreciate his offer. I haven't heard from him yet, but plan take him up on his offer if it's still available. I probably won't swap it into the truck, but it may prove useful to have it as a spare. If something went seriously wrong with my motor, I always have the option to swap it in then.

I'd like to get my motor to the point I can take it to someone to do the skilled work. If that means just taking the whole engine to this "Jasper" company, then that's what I will do. I assume there must be some way for me to save money by doing some of the teardown and build myself though. Do you have any more info on Jasper, as I have never heard of them before.

Is September too lofty of a goal? If it is unrealistic, please let me know. I felt like that was enough time, but I have no idea how long the skilled work takes on the block and heads. I wanted to go to the Scout Nationals.....

What did you mean by your last paragraph?

"If you are really smart, you will find a shop that will do the R&R for you so that if something does go wrong with the Jasper motor, the whole thing is guaranteed. This too is the cheap way."

Thanks again for the honesty. I hope you have a better understanding of my original intentions.

Zack

PS- I would love to do the whole thing myself, if I had the tools, knowlege, and of course, the necessary guidance. Do you think any shops would allow me to take part in the rebuild, so I can learn the skills? I think that would be awesome. I just don't have any contacts for good places to go locally. If anyone knows a good place near Detroit, let me know. There has to be one.

[tdc]

Originally Posted by 78_ScoutII

Do you think any shops would allow me to take part in the rebuild, so I can learn the skills? I think that would be awesome.

Can afford the rates.?