345 Starter

[briankk]

Weather here dried up enough so I could go and have a bit of time with my "new" '69 1200 pickup, which has been sitting in a field, under a pine tree, since '01..

Last week I put a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil in each cyl and let it set for a week, came back this week with a battery to see if the engine was stuck or would turn over. When I went to "bump" the engine, the starter locked onto the flex plate and turned the engine over 'till I disconnected the battery. Tried a second time, same deal, in spite of bashing the solenoid with a ball pien hammer.

I've read in the archives that there can be a problem with shims in the starter on the 345 engine. I have a 345 and a 727...

Anybody got the straight skinny on how to shim the starter for this application?

[joker51]

There is supposed to be a shim installed between the starter body and the engine block for 345 and a 727 tranny . Otherwise there will be ring gear alignment issues which may be why its locking onto the flywheel.

Cant find a picture of the shim itself. but looks like this. basically a 1/8" IIRC shim that fits over the cone. should be same shape as the cone with the wings for the bolts.


Joker51

[Eric VanBuren]

That is a not all that uncommon failure of the starter's solenoid. They can short and back feed power to the solenoid and then won't stop cranking until the power source is disconnected. One more reason to do the Ford starter relay addition.

[briankk]

Originally Posted by joker51

There is supposed to be a shim installed between the starter body and the engine block for 345 and a 727 tranny . Otherwise there will be ring gear alignment issues which may be why its locking onto the flywheel.

Cant find a picture of the shim itself. but looks like this. basically a 1/8" IIRC shim that fits over the cone. should be same shape as the cone with the wings for the bolts.


Joker51

I think I know what you mean, there's a picture of the thing around here somewhere, and a note that it should be .187" thick..

[Bill usn-1]

As Eric stated, it's the solenoid and not the shim that is making the starter continue to run.

[briankk]

Originally Posted by Bill usn-1

As Eric stated, it's the solenoid and not the shim that is making the starter continue to run.

Near as I can tell, the pinion never dis-engages, never mind whether power is applied or not. I was assuming that the pinion has overshot the flex plate and is stuck behind it....

[sdowney717]

Do you have the shim, that is not clear.
The return spring in the solenoid might be snapped, or the plunger rusted and stuck.

[jeff campbell]

heres a pic of a shim/spacer.not the best but it's 3/16" thick.jeff

[Dennis Bernth]

my "new" '69 1200 pickup, which has been sitting in a field, under a pine tree, since '01..

that probably explains it right there. That starter likely has rust, corrosion, mouse nests, etc. inside it that are preventing it from working the way it should. The gear on the starter can't 'over run' the flywheel and go too far and get stuck behind it; there is just enough crud built up, or crud has compromised the electrics as Eric said, so that it won't retract. Pull it, take it to an auto electric shop if you can find one, and have it gone through. Half a hundred later and you should be golden. If at all possible, do NOT just carry it in to Autozone, O'Reilly's or even NAPA and exchange it for another starter. Pretty much all the parts stores now get their electrical rebuilds from the same place, and the quality is spotty to be charitable. Much better to find a small shop that will go through the one you have and fix it so it'll last another 20 years.

[briankk]

Originally Posted by Dennis Bernth

my "new" '69 1200 pickup, which has been sitting in a field, under a pine tree, since '01..

that probably explains it right there. That starter likely has rust, corrosion, mouse nests, etc. inside it that are preventing it from working the way it should. The gear on the starter can't 'over run' the flywheel and go too far and get stuck behind it; there is just enough crud built up, or crud has compromised the electrics as Eric said, so that it won't retract. Pull it, take it to an auto electric shop if you can find one, and have it gone through. Half a hundred later and you should be golden. If at all possible, do NOT just carry it in to Autozone, O'Reilly's or even NAPA and exchange it for another starter. Pretty much all the parts stores now get their electrical rebuilds from the same place, and the quality is spotty to be charitable. Much better to find a small shop that will go through the one you have and fix it so it'll last another 20 years.

The fellow I bought the truck from, parked it because of the starter problem. He's an elderly fellow, not mechanically inclined, and when we were dickering for the truck, he tried to explain the problem, but didn't have knowledge/vocabulary to explain it..

Everything in or on the truck has about 4" of pine needles heaped on it, including the engine, the hood must have been open for some years before I ever saw it..

Whatever else, I'm going to have to pull the starter, first to put the shim in it, and/or to repair whatever else may be causing the problem. I know just the shop to take it to, unfortunately, it's 150 miles from here, and gas is currently 4.25/gallon..

Getting the starer out is going to be a project by itself, truck's parked on a hill, in the dirt, for years.

Good thing I enjoy fooling with old stuff..