Binder Planet
BinderPlanet

Go Back   Binder Planet Forums > General Forums > General IH Tech




Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:26 PM
Scout-it-out's Avatar
Scout-it-out Scout-it-out is offline
Farmall Cub
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Live Oak, CA
Posts: 82
Default No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

Doug LaMalfa introduced SB1224 which would exempt pre 1981 vehicles from smog.This is scheduled for hearings on March 27,2012. Write or call your California Assembly or Senate member to support. The legislative counsel’s digest states:

SB 1224, as introduced, La Malfa. Smog check: biennial inspection:
exemption.
Existing law establishes a motor vehicle inspection and maintenance
(smog check) program, administered by the Department of Consumer
Affairs. The smog check program requires inspection of motor vehicles
upon initial registration, biennially upon renewal of registration, upon
transfer of ownership, and in certain other circumstances. Existing law
exempts specified vehicles from being inspected biennially upon renewal
of registration, including, among others, all motor vehicles manufactured
prior to the 1976 model-year.
This bill instead would exempt all motor vehicles prior to the 1981
model-year from being inspected biennially upon renewal of registration.
Vote: majority. Appropriation: no. Fiscal committee: yes.
State-mandated local program: no.

Here is a response that you can cut and paste and send to your local Senator.

Your fellow Senator Doug LaMalfa has introduced SB 1224 which would exempt pre 1981 vehicles from biennial smog inspection. I am someone who owns a pre 1981 vehicle that continously passes all smog tests and feel that this bill is a very good idea. Please join your fellow Senator and vote to approve this bill.

Thank You,

i'm sorry if this is in the wrong place. i looked but couldn't find a better place. thanks
__________________
~Andy
KJ6IYM
1979 Scout II; 304, 31" tires, 3.73, Spartan Locker rear, Powr-Lok front, custom bumpers Hydraulic Brake Booster

Last edited by Scout-it-out; 03-16-2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: added for CA
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:55 PM
64C1100's Avatar
64C1100 64C1100 is offline
Farmall Cub
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South of Disneyland
Posts: 97
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

My keyboard will be working overtime tonight! Consider it done.

JP
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:23 AM
76 xlc 76 xlc is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Posts: 618
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64C1100 View Post
My keyboard will be working overtime tonight! Consider it done.

JP
You must be concerned about the rest of your fleet.

BTW, don't you like the-one-size-fits-all approach to smog testing, and how each of us must pay to prove our lack of guilt in producing excessive emissions?

No matter if you drive your vehicle 2500 miles per year or 250,000, no matter if in excess of 85% of the entire states fleet passes every year, we all have to pay the piper?

What's happened to the concept of "innocent until proven guilty"?

When did we authorize Napoleonic Law, where one is presumed guilty, and then must pay, and pray, to prove one's innocence?

Wasn't it around the time a certain future San Clemente resident visited China?

Last edited by 76 xlc; 03-17-2012 at 07:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-17-2012, 01:08 AM
tahoedonner tahoedonner is offline
Farmall Cub
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belmont, CA
Posts: 126
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

I am all for this. Please all help abolish this bs policy us Californians have to deal with.

Thanks Scout It Out
__________________
'72 Scout II, V8 304 (Want it back 170DXD if anybody sees it in the bay area)
'79 Scout II, V8 345 (Project)
Build- http://www.ihonlynorth.com/forums/re...ect-karma.html

Last edited by tahoedonner; 03-17-2012 at 01:09 AM. Reason: addition
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-17-2012, 01:38 AM
TBAKPhi22 TBAKPhi22 is offline
Binder Driver
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 587
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

I hope this passes... I, (probably so many people) were soooo pissed off when the "rolling 25 year exemption" screeched to a halt. I just always think... How many cars that are 25+ years old are even on the road every day? When I go to where I'm working (usually about 20-30 miles from my house) I might see a car that's older than my truck about once a month.
To bag on these old cars and trucks is such a waste of time!
__________________
1967 1200A 4x4, 304, T36 5-speed, Dana 44 front, RA10 rear, 7' bed, Stans & Flows, 11.00-16 Michelin XZL tires
1973 1310- Ex PG&E truck, 11,000 GVW, 392 w/Schneider cam, Stans, Flowmasters, 727 w/ GV OD, RA15 dually rear, 10' flatbed w/boxes
1961 V-206 Van Pelt open cab firetruck w/ 549 V8 5spd
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-17-2012, 02:33 PM
Patrick Morris's Avatar
Patrick Morris Patrick Morris is offline
High Wheeler
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,102
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

Hah! I got the email from SEMA about this a couple of days ago. Couldn't believe my eyes. Hope it goes through. I'll be sending out some emails.
__________________
Patrick Morris, KI6VSM
1978 Scout II Traveltop (owned it since 1991)
345-V8, T19-wide, D300 TC, rear Powr-Lok, front Aussie Locker
3" SJ lift, tires are 32" Cooper Discoverer STTs
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:54 PM
VooDoo's Avatar
VooDoo VooDoo is offline
Binder Driver
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 872
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

I know many people are not auto enthusiast or classic car owners like us (pre-81 cars are classics now), so I can understand uninformed people questioning SB1224. The classic car community was “accepting” of the past California rolling emissions-test exemption. Here’s what I see out there:


- In 2004, legislation was enacted to repeal California’s rolling emissions-test exemption for vehicles 30 years old and older, and replace it with a law requiring the lifetime testing of all 1976 and newer model-year vehicles (Is 1976 right?).

- For years, legislators, regulators and stationary source polluters have felt the heat from failed efforts to meet air quality goals and have looked to older cars as a convenient scapegoat, using false data and inflated annual mileage assumptions to further their case.

- S.B. 1224 helps validate the truth. The old car hobby should not continue to carry the burden of past mistakes.

- S.B. 1224 recognizes the minimal impact of pre-1981 vehicles on emissions and air quality.

- S.B. 1224 acknowledges that pre-1981 vehicles still constitute a minuscule portion of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look for emissions reduction.

- S.B. 1224 endorses the fact that pre-1981 vehicles are overwhelmingly well-maintained and infrequently driven (a fraction of the miles each year as a new vehicle).


New cars are NOT checked for the first 5 years of ownership. I’m guessing the assumption is that the new smog related parts will not fail within the first 5 years. Newer cars (1 to 5 years) and cars 5 to 30 years old are the vast majority of cars on the road, and clearly driven the vast majority of miles. Cars older than 30 years are generally driven by classic car enthusiast that maintain their cars and don’t drive them as frequently.

Yes, there are a few clunkers that manage to survive past 30 years and THEN are not maintained after the smog checks are no longer required, but the majority of unmaintained cars older than 30 years do not survive; unless an enthusiast picks it up and restores it.

Many people feel that we should reduce testing on all cars, because testing results analyses reports that there are very few testing failures for all cars, and since those few which do fail represent such a small percentage of all cars, it indicates that the testing is not necessary at all.

I’m not sure where I stand on that, because the 0-30 year old cars ARE the cars that are being driven the most miles and obviously constitute the sweet-spot to be appropriately monitored. Plus, testing cars 0-30 years old prevents new car owners from removing their smog equipment the day it is purchased, thus defeating the purpose of adding it to begin with. However, the level of monitoring needed could be argued. Maybe less monitoring or select monitoring could be looked at closely and possibly reduce the ever expanding expensive nonsensical bureaucracy?

The law should not concentrate on the rare exception (few) 30+ year old unmaintained clunker automobiles, it should concentrate on the bell curve sweet-spot to keep the cars with the most running hours/miles in check AND THE MAJOR STATIONARY SOURCE POLLUTERS that seem to continually get a pass for one reason or another.

You may not agree, but that’s my worth and I stick’n with it!

Compromise and comon sense can go a long way in this world. I hope the government begins to realize that sonner rather than later...

Support SB1224!
__________________
68 Travelall 4x4 Do-It-All-Rig: 392V8, T35, NP202, 4.11's, 14B-DL, HD D44, 4" Lift, 4W Disc, H2's w/34.5" BFG AT's
* FINALLY ON THE ROAD AND WORKING OUT THE BUGS *
I can remember when the only carbs anyone cared about were under the hood!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-18-2012, 11:03 PM
Thomas's Avatar
Thomas Thomas is offline
Dreams of Cub Cadets
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Friendship, WI
Posts: 4,669
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

---Don't forget that the sulfur found in leaded fuel was promoting acid rain & driving behind a newer vehicle will choke you due to the sulfur fumes. My view on that is they needed to start moving toward ethenol that they told the farmers wouldn't work, so they* could begin monopolization of alternative fuels, cutting the throats of millions of farmers whose soil was "primed & ready to go when you say yes".

---All good stuff VooDoo, but you're forgetting the biggest piece to the puzzle. Old vehicles are a burden on the economy. The old vehicles can drive for hundreds of thousands of miles, some have made it to millions and because of this, the automotive industry suffers. They must* keep those employees working, so they must push the older vehicles off the road & into the shredder. Plain and simple, that's why that great state's recent attempt on infecting the rest of us was shot down. The National Scrappage Bill... shot down by car enthusiasts, collectors & clubs before it even reached congress, and why Obama, without so much as breathing heavy on the bill, passed the Cash for Clunkers. What's worse? Why don't you see all that many good vehicles in the junk yards now? No, it's not because of the great "Scrap Rush", it's because anyone who signed the C4C contract was legally bound to "... destroy any vehicle, from hereon in, which can be found on this list".

---Change my friend, IH Brethren & fellow countryman. Change is for the good.

---Saying now that pre 1981 vehicles are "obsolete", just makes me think that they have plans to amend the bill, as quickly as Obama can sign his name, and say that all pre-catalytic vehicles (those years [subject to change] named in SB1224), are banned from use on US roadways.
__________________


Who loves hearing,
"We replaced this & that & the bill comes to $x,xxx.xx ... but we couldn't find the problem. What payment method will you be using?"?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-18-2012, 11:07 PM
76 xlc 76 xlc is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
Posts: 618
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

Excellent post, Voodoo! And, Thomas, I salute yours as well, noting your even more of a reality-based cynic than I.

A couple of points and clarifications:

Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDoo View Post
I’m guessing the assumption is that the new smog related parts will not fail within the first 5 years.
Federal EPA regulations mandated that the OEM's warranty their products to their customers, and the public at large, for 100,000 miles. This happened around 20 years ago and was instituted well over a decade ago. Many may recall GM touting the fact that no tune-ups were needed during the first 100K of ownership, as if it was a feature, when in fact it was the marketing of the meeting of a legal requirement to sell vehicles in the U.S.

Quote:
Many people feel that we should reduce testing on all cars, because testing results analyses reports that there are very few testing failures for all cars, and since those few which do fail represent such a small percentage of all cars, it indicates that the testing is not necessary at all.
One valid argument against testing, but I think the real issue we face is the government standing a couple hundred years of American Jurisprudence on its head by determining all vehicle owners guilty, then forcing us to prove our innocence, and paying to prove that innocence, each and every time it mandates we test our vehicles.

Quote:
Plus, testing cars 0-30 years old prevents new car owners from removing their smog equipment the day it is purchased, thus defeating the purpose of adding it to begin with.
Far less of an issue than when analog fuel and ignition systems were common, and add-on smog controls were seen as detrimental to vehicle performance and driveability.

Quote:
The law should not concentrate on the rare exception (few) 30+ year old unmaintained clunker automobiles, it should concentrate on the bell curve sweet-spot to keep the cars with the most running hours/miles in check ...
Why do you give in to government controls that violate your inherent rights, guaranteed by the United States Constitution?

Though many laws are unjust, they remain on the books until challenged in the courts successfully.

I support the proposed bill, SB1224, but luckily(?) live in an EPA waiver area of another state, and as such, have no legal standing to challenge any of the obviously unconstitutional laws in court.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and replies.

Last edited by 76 xlc; 03-19-2012 at 04:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-19-2012, 07:09 AM
scorp1us's Avatar
scorp1us scorp1us is offline
High Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,447
Default Re: No Smog for Pre 1981 Vehicles! (CA)

76 XLC, you seem to be a bit off base. Emissions requirements came about because of the health problems created by smog. In a democracy (or republic, if you wish to split hairs) the people can enact legislation for the benefit of the people, barring that it does not violate your rights. Now you may jump to "but I have the right to own a vehicle and maintain it any way I want", however you in turn would have to accept liability for the medical problems you create, because the people have a bigger right to breathe clean air. It would be impossible to collect from you an amount proportional to the lung damage that you caused by having an unmaintained vehicle so this is that the people came up with.

In MD, we have an annual emissions inspection. It costs $15 and we need to go to a special inspection station. If we are late, it costs another $15 every month we are late. Now, for any vehicle 1996+, they just plug into the ODB-II port and read codes and values and print pass or fail. I don't know why I can't take it to any ASE certified shop and have them do it for free, or cheaper. It certainly would help 99% of us.

Meanwhile the cars that pre-1996 but are computer controlled should be the only ones that need to do to the station for the dyno test. vehicles that predate computers should be exempted.

However you must realize that in 1985, there was a major shift in engineering at the automobile manufactures. Kaizen (Japanese) took off and gave us substantially improved cars & components. Add to that electrically charged primer/paint bonding to the metal and you have a car that won't rust out for a very long time, and the components will last. So expect to see many more 1985+ vehicles on the road. Already here in MD I am noticing a lot more 20 year old cars still being used as daily drivers.
__________________
1980 Traveler 345 D44, 3.73, 727, 4" RC SUA w/4* shims, GM 350 TBI (16197427)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
100 , 200 , air , car , case , deal , find , fuel , fumes , hose , ignition , inspection , oring , parts , poor , rare , reduction , size , smog , start , test , tire , truck , work , worth

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Standard Catalog of US Military Vehicles Colin Rush The Reading Room 0 02-24-2011 11:09 PM
Calif smog law alert! Erik VanRenselaar General IH Tech 23 08-21-2007 04:49 PM
California Smog Check II – What a long strange trip its been. 76 Terra General IH Tech 6 01-18-2006 08:09 AM
Bill to restrict use of antique vehicles in VA Brian Schermann Old Dominion Binders Association 5 01-12-2006 01:43 PM
Calif emissions terryd IH Scouts & Trucks of Oregon 17 08-27-2005 12:33 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

The IH logo, the "IHC" logo, are trademarks respectfully of the International Truck & Engine Corporation and the Case New Holland Corporation.
They are used for identification purposes only.

BinderPlanet® Copyright ©2011