cut and turn question

[76-scout-MATT]

76 scout 345-V-8, 4 speed manual T-19 wide ratio transmission, 4X4, trac-loc differentials with 3:54 gears.

Moab is an hour and a half away... would like to do some of the trails but nothing xtreme...

the truck is more for getting into the back country.. camping and such and getting me back

i have put on a 4 inch SUA rough country springs and shocks... replaced alll the body bushings or mounts... really woke up that old truck

31s now but want 33s

in colorado you have to drive a good distance to get anywhere... so the truck needs to be highway friendly

found a shop that says they can and will do a cut and turn..i have a meeting this week to discuss project.. i think that i will be stripping the axle and dropping off... to save money.... gonna need help with that but that is another thread or more searching

from the searching i have done i know that i will need to take into a alignment shop to get specs for amount to be turned and such.... i think i am looking for 4- 5 degrees caster and point the pumpkin right at whatever the pumpkin points at

what i could not find or understand is will i need a new front drive shaft or will the old one work... and anything else that i am missing

reason for the cut and turn is to avoid binding in the drive line and correct the caster problem created by the lift... truck is very squirrely and scary over 50ish

thank you for your seemingly un-ending wealth of knowledge and willingness to share with others.....

p.s. found a roll bar on craigslist from a 73 scout ... will that fit my 76... it attaches at the bend in front of back seat and wheel wells

[tdc]

Cut and turn is great when done properly. You could get by with steel, 2-4 degree axel shims, new U bolts, skyjacker drop pitman arm. Stock length front shackles and spreader bar. New eye to eye front shocks, plus urathane bushings on your leaf springs and frame mounts. High and tight, works for me since 1991.

[76-scout-MATT]

been getting by... want it better

urethane bushings are what i put in for the body mounts...new ubolts came with the lift kit as well as new shackles... a little bigger than stock and a lot beefier.. with what ever bushings came with... has shims now that came with the lift kit ( allready installed) but still wanders too much for my liking... looked at off set u joints... woods i think... but if i am going to pull the trigger on cut and turn and need a new drive shaft dont want to put u joints into something that needs to be replaced.... got a drop pitman arm on my wish list... also picked up a shock looking thing that is supposed to help with the bump steer

so will i need a new front drive shaft????????

[radar232]

Cut and turn for SOA conversion is a very popular mod to stock suspension. Things to also take into consideration include:
Steering Linkage mod. Drop pitman arm and/or a "Z-link" drag link will likely be required to correct loose steering, especially at highway speeds.
Check out anythingscout.com they have an awesome steering linkage kit and will even bend the drag link (to a Z-link) if needed.
Another increasingly popular option is a reverse shackle front end. Also lots of info here about the benefits. Primarily improved handling. This will definitely require a front drive shaft with more slip. Can't speak on SOA alone requiring one....
Also, axle wrap is an issue for SOA conversions especially if you have a spring lift. This condition typically occurs in the off road setting when trying to climb rocks or ledges.
In SOA suspension, the axle will try to turn when the tires bite but don't move the vehicle thus causing the axle to bend leaf springs around the axle housing thereby altering pinion angles which will break your dive shaft and leave you stranded. LOTS of video on youtube which will help put this into perspective for you. Not a major concern if you only plan on some light wheeling. I would even say some if it is due to operator error when drivers push their trucks harder than they are built to withstand and end up learning about axle wrap the hard way. Simply put, the longer your SOA springs the more pliable they become and the easier for axle wrap to occur. Some people prevent this with latter bars or link style suspension which can get expensive. Below is a picture of a more reasonably priced option. Don't know how well it works, though. My "experience" stops at mechanical theory. I've just done a lot of reading regarding SOA conversions and complications. Afterall, my Scout 80 is hardly an aggressive trail rig. Probably more info than you expected just thought I'd through in my .02.
HTH
O! I just remembered a "test" to find out if your front drive shaft is long enough. DONT KNOW HOW PRACTICAL THIS IS!!! Maybe someone else will chime in...
Anyway, I've read where people put there truck on a frame lift, hang from the front axle tube and bounce a few times thinking that will cause their front drive shaft to fall out if to short. Seems kind of ridiculous to me and a VERY unreliable way to "check" for adequate slip... I reckon you are better off raising the truck and using a freakin measuring tape when the axle is hanging free. Measure the spline shaft exposed. If you only have an inch or so of splines in the main shaft (or if the damn slip yoke falls out completely) you better get a longer shaft with more slip... Again, just my thoughts on the topic. Haven't done this myself,..... yet.

[lightningflash]

76ScoutMatt,

I'm in pretty much the same boat that you are in. I have a 4" RC lift, I put some shims in the front to try and correct my pinion angle and it drove like crap. Took the shims out and it drove noticeably better but now my pig practically points at the ground.

I thought that sticking with the spring-under would help keep the Scout's drive-ability, now I'm contemplating changing to a spring-over instead for a better ride. I got my hands on some 1980 Scout axles which should help but I'm having a hard time finding anyone that will do the cut and turn.

The Steering Stabilizer shock you bought helped my Scout out a lot. I think if you go to a Spring over with a reverse shackle you do need to get a new front drive-shaft but if you do a cut and turn on a spring under I don't believe you'll need a new driveshaft...but I would check anyways, better to find-out in the garage than on the trail.

Let me know what you come-up with, I really don't know what I plan to do yet.

[76-scout-MATT]

thanks for the input... staying with the SUA... ordered the drop pitman arm... will keep you posted on my findings after meeting with shop doing the cut and turn and alignment guys.. gave my stock springs to they guy that helped me with the lift so he can go SOA on his rig....have read a lot about reverse shackle... maybe down the road... hoping cut and turn will make me happy

have access to a lift so i can take measurements...

[76-scout-MATT]

update... after 3 shops found the guy that is going to do the cut and turn.. his name is pete

but he wants ME to tell him how much to turn everything

how do i get those measurements

here are my ideas
1. alignment shop.. but wont those measurments be based on how the car sits when measurements are taken and how will i know how to translate that into what pete needs when i remove the axle and it is not attached to the truck? will the alignment shop give me my pinion angle (same as the pumpkin angle right?)

2. find a 3 d imager and do it on atuo cad program... ha ha

3. some how with a protractor and a level after knowing what the caster is now (??).. just guess

seems to me that i need to know where to move the spring perches first thent point the pumpkin and roll back the knuckles... sounds easy... but i am totally lost

on of the perrches is actually built into the axle... i have read and talked to pete about machining that and or using a shim .. which could be as simple as grinding something flat where i needs it to be flat

also discussed putting a new fill hole in higher for fluid

anxiously waiting your replys

[radar232]

Man, that seems iffy. Sounds to me like he's not an axle guy... A metal worker is one thing, an axle guy another. Point is, I don't think I would trust a cut and turn in the hands of someone that can't determine the proper pinion angles. That will probably translate into spring perch placement and shock mounts as well...

[76-scout-MATT]

i am sure of his abilities... he has one in the shop now he is doing this week.... he is just not going to tell me what i want... i have to tell him

update.... alignment shop can tell me where my caster is now...

found a tool called an angle finder..... with this and a level and the mesasurement from the shop i thiink i can get the answer i am looking for...

any and all tips are welcome

does the drive shaft have to be directly at the transfer case or is there some wiggle room... assuming there is is it probably best to be on the lower side of that straight line... meaning not pointing the pumpkin too far up

[76-scout-MATT]

my shock mounts are on the u bolt brackets ... so only the perches will need to be moved.... actually only one perch the other side will be machined flat where i need it in relation to the other perch.... correct?

and another question... how high should i move the new fill plug.? looks like if i move where i am thinking the seals will now be in the fluid pool.. does that make sense .... is that a problem?