2300 Holley carb sloshing

[wnc scout]

Went offroading this weekend
Lots of off camber and up and down angles.
Truck kept stalling ( flooding) during the extremes
Besides fuel injection what are some tricks to better offroad abilities
I read the tech page and found these:
Rebuild Kit, 2-5121 *$16.50
Spring Loaded Needle & Seat, 6-513 *$23.20
Vent Baffle, 26-89 *$7.00
Fuel Bowl Vent Screen, 26-39 *$7.99
Jets #51, 122-51 *$6.00
Felpro Carb to Manifold Gasket, 60677 *$7.00
1" TRD Aluminum Carb Spacer, 3127 *$30.70
Accel Pump Cam Assortment, 20-12 *$15.95
(*2001 prices)

Are they still applicable?
Main improvement would be Spring Loaded Needle & Seat, 6-513 *$23.20
Will this work on a side hung float? Summit says center hung style.
Vent Baffle, 26-89 *$7.00
Fuel Bowl Vent Screen, 26-39 *$7.99
And a slightly lower fuel level.
Thanks for any advice, resources, and links

[Jay Tabor]

exactly
do the spring loaded needle/seat. I put a few in side hung carbs 2300 series,
ask holley about 'em.
lower fuel level slightly
add tubes for jets.
add the slosh tube/whistle for bowl vent baffle
I did all of the above to my carbs and its a world of difference.
biggest thing is lower fuel level in the bowl.
its more of an issue going up hill for flooding
and extreme sidehill.
adding a short piece of hose to the carb body bowl vent helps,too.

[Bill Bennett]

Before considering swapping the main jets, you need to know if the carb is the 275 or 350 cfm carb. What elevation are you working in? If lowering the fuel level, how much 'lower' before you reach 'too low'?

[Eric VanBuren]

If you lower your fuel level be prepared to possibly need to re-jet your carb. A lower fuel level leans out your mixture.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by wnc scout

Went offroading this weekend
Lots of off camber and up and down angles.
Truck kept stalling ( flooding) during the extremes
Besides fuel injection what are some tricks to better offroad abilities
I read the tech page and found these:
Rebuild Kit, 2-5121 *$16.50
Spring Loaded Needle & Seat, 6-513 *$23.20
Vent Baffle, 26-89 *$7.00
Fuel Bowl Vent Screen, 26-39 *$7.99
Jets #51, 122-51 *$6.00
Felpro Carb to Manifold Gasket, 60677 *$7.00
1" TRD Aluminum Carb Spacer, 3127 *$30.70
Accel Pump Cam Assortment, 20-12 *$15.95
(*2001 prices)

Are they still applicable?
Main improvement would be Spring Loaded Needle & Seat, 6-513 *$23.20
Will this work on a side hung float? Summit says center hung style.
Vent Baffle, 26-89 *$7.00
Fuel Bowl Vent Screen, 26-39 *$7.99
And a slightly lower fuel level.
Thanks for any advice, resources, and links

-No idea what list# carb you have, so can't comment on what rebuild kit; as your list number is what determines the kit's contents and "all-know-its".
-Off-Road Needle & Seat AFAIK is old Viton and not rated for ethanol (old viton [GLT] was not* rated for such oxygenated fuels, & will not hold up to the percentages today), so expect to buy them regularly... depending on use.
-Fuel Bowl Vent Baffle is not a compatible part for a side-hung fuel bowl.
-Bowl Vent Screen is what is required since you cannot use a Fuel Bowl Vent Baffle.
-Felpro 60677 was designed for and is only needed* for larger cfm carbs (larger throttle bores & 50cc Accelerator Pump), so the more compatible & better alternative (slightly higher price, but better quality as well) is the Holley 108-52 w/full heat shield/dam, but either is usable.
-The accelerator pump cam should be white (#218 OR #20-80).
-I have had no problem with sloshing even though I played with center hung bowls 10+ years ago, my truck doesn't experience the forces that push fuel all the way to the front, uncovering the jets (unless descending on an extreme angle & uncovering one), but I made my own ("squashed") brass extensions nevertheless, but the standard, tubular extensions will not work with a side-hung bowl either.

---If it ran good before, changing just the jets is kinda goofy. One could bump up (one at a time) one or two sizes of their jets and nozzles, installing a high-flow needle and seat and power valve and eliminate a lot of problems. eGas burns faster, so supply & demand is higher. FWIW, the regular consensus amongst the "pro street" racers is when using e85, you step up your jets to a size 10% larger than what you normally used. If you're using e10, one to two sizes would most likely do well enough. Most people are running too large a jet anyway, so it often isn't necessary to even bump them up, nor is it normally necessary with the power valve or needle and seat, since the alcohol versions are higher flow. Test with what you have now, and use the Holley jetting & power valve instructions just as you would have before ethanol.


---I would look into what type of Float you have and change that (Brass that Holley makes), the Accelerator Pump Diaphragm (GFLT that Holley makes) and Power Valve with alcohol-rated from companies like Barry Grant/BG, Quick Fuel Technologies/QFT and the least favorable AED (if using AED, thoroughly* inspect the threads before torquing). Only problem with the steel needle & seat is that it doesn't behave well on the street. Titanium might be better, but that's ahead of my time right now and I'll toy with it later for sure... if it becomes available.

---2001 was a long time ago when it comes to Ethanol. A more recent list of parts can be found at the beginning of my post in the Useful Part Number List thread.

---Hope my 2¢ is useful.

[Jay Tabor]

''Fuel Bowl Vent Baffle is not a compatible part for a side-hung fuel bowl.'
Yes it will fit either bowl --side or center hung float, used plenty in both type bowls for last 40 years..
http://www.holley.com/26-89.asp
just have to trim the end of the whistle vent for clearance to float FOR CENTER HUNG..

see:http://www.holley.com/data/TechServi...ded%20View.pdf
part number 17. is the baffle that fits only side hung float bowls


the original vent screen is a useless waste, gets removed when whistle vent tube is placed in metering block.
driving forwards going UP a steep hill, sloshes fuel back towards carb body- metering block, where that screen [located top center rear of bowl] lets copious quantities of fuel to flow right into the carb! a whistle baffle vent stops that from happening.

titanium n/seats are available... http://www.holley.com/6-521.asp


'''if you lower your fuel level be prepared to possibly need to re-jet your carb. A lower fuel level leans out your mixture. ''
nope!
thats like saying when the fuel level in the fuel bowl drops, the mixture leans out . .
well it wont/cant,, the atmospheric pressure is the same in bowl regardless of fuel level.
the fuel gets SUCKED into the main well/venturis BY VACUUM, past/thru the jets, not static fuel pressure in a column.
and since the fuel level varies while engine is running, so it drops by say half an inch before the float allows fuel to enter, then raises up and stops the fuel flow into the bowl. so the fuel mix varies and leans and richens every 15 seconds? not hardly..

so lowering fuel level by an 1/8th of an inch wont hurt a thing, but does help stop high fuel level sloshing a lot of fuel into bowl vent, inside of bowl, when fuel level is at its highest and vehicle is then at high angles of attack, POINTED UP HILL.
only time the jets can be uncovered going down hill is when its 90* from horizontal -ie: vertically situated, and at that point since the vehicle is falling down a cliff, uncovered jets is the last thing on your mind . .

and lowering the fuel level actually has the affect of a more constant flow of fuel into the bowl, since the float doesnt vary in heigth as much as a high float/fuel level will, and that means the needle is off the seat more time, since the level is lower and the fuel consumption is somewhat constant..
only time a low fuel level may make the carb/engine run out of gas [run lean]-
is when there is max fuel consumption-ie: wide open throttle for long time..- like racing to the corner gas station for 3 cents a gallon off regular price saturday before 8 am . .
and that wont happen with your anemic 350 cfm normally aspirated racer engine IH 304 V8 with #55 jets!

and jet size has nothing to do with fuel capacity in bowl. jets meter fuel at an exact rate, thru an exact size orifice, and that correlates to an exact time it takes to empty a fuel bowl, larger jets empty the fuel bowl faster,


accelerator pump cam kits come with 8 cams, to tailor the carb for a particular response.
saying 'use only white cam'' is like saying one shoe size fits every person in the world.

the cams are for tailoring A PARTICULAR CARB FOR A PARTICULAR RESPONSE,-
faster pump shots, longer pump shots, higher volumne pump shots, etc . .

Holley webiste specs:
'' Accelerator Pump Kits and Service Parts
Accelerator Pump CamPART #: 20-12UPC #: 090127207451

Accelerator Pump Cam Assortment Kit Accelerator Pump Cam Assortment Kit

Installation Notes
Accelerator pump shot relative to cam color from lightest to heaviest are as follows: White, Blue, Red, Orange, Black, Green, Pink & Brown

Features
•Tailor Accelerator Pump Performance
•Each Cam Is Different Shape/Profile
•Gives Different Results'''

NOTICE HOLLEY DOESNT STATE -- ''use white cam only'' ANYWHERE in their website..

[Eric VanBuren]

Yes the fuel level does affect the mixture. The dozens of carb equipped vehicles that were running too rich to pass emissions that I leaned out via that method and then passed emissions says otherwise. A lower fuel level means that the fuel has to be sucked up a further distance.

[Jay Tabor]

not with properly adjusted fuel level it caint.
The engines were rich running because fuel was being metered thru the main circuit and idle circuit at idle speed.

and proper fuel level is about 2/3 up from bottom of fuel bowl- bottom of fuel level site hole.

the risers in the carb body that lead into/ down to the venturi clusters are even with the top of the fuel bowl,/metering block [some cases higher] , take a look at it . .
soooooooooo for too much fuel to be flowing and magically causing rich running means two things>.
the float level was WAY too high,[NOT CORRECT LEVEL] or/and needle seat werent working- flooding occuring>
or engine idle speed too high- venturis working and flowing fuel.
and broken power valve..............

the fuel still gets sucked up thru mainwell regardless of fuel level in bowl, by vacuum [when running on main circuits ---------->>>>>>>>>not idle circuits].



a correct fuel level in fuel bowl doesnt flow up and drip out of venturi clusters, that can only happen from too high a idle speed-
so that too much air is flowing past the venturi clusters and the drop in pressure, rise in air velocity causes suction and flows fuel thru venturi clusters.
at normal idle speeds - when gas is only going thru idle circuits- that aint happening.

so adjusting the fuel level doesnt 'LEAN OUT' the mixture in any normally adjusted and functioning carb . .
fuel doesnt flow thru MAIN CIRCUITS AT IDLE SPEEDS.

[Eric VanBuren]

Originally Posted by Jay Tabor

not with properly adjusted fuel level it caint.
The engines were rich running because fuel was being metered thru the main circuit and idle circuit at idle speed.

and proper fuel level is about 2/3 up from bottom of fuel bowl- bottom of fuel level site hole.

the risers in the carb body that lead into/ down to the venturi clusters are even with the top of the fuel bowl,/metering block [some cases higher] , take a look at it . .
soooooooooo for too much fuel to be flowing and magically causing rich running means two things>.
the float level was WAY too high,[NOT CORRECT LEVEL] or/and needle seat werent working- flooding occuring>
or engine idle speed too high- venturis working and flowing fuel.
and broken power valve..............

the fuel still gets sucked up thru mainwell regardless of fuel level in bowl, by vacuum [when running on main circuits ---------->>>>>>>>>not idle circuits].



a correct fuel level in fuel bowl doesnt flow up and drip out of venturi clusters, that can only happen from too high a idle speed-
so that too much air is flowing past the venturi clusters and the drop in pressure, rise in air velocity causes suction and flows fuel thru venturi clusters.
at normal idle speeds - when gas is only going thru idle circuits- that aint happening.

so adjusting the fuel level doesnt 'LEAN OUT' the mixture in any normally adjusted and functioning carb . .
fuel doesnt flow thru MAIN CIRCUITS AT IDLE SPEEDS.

You can believe what you will but I know the truth and so do others that were state certified emissions repair facilities back when there were many carb equipped cars that were new enough to need a test.

It wasn't something that I did with Holleys because different jets were available for those. It was mainly Japanese cars that received that trick since other than carbs on the parts carb shelf there just wasn't access to different jets. Also it was only done after the carb had been rebuilt with all the adjustments done to the factory specs and they still failed the cruise CO even after leaning out the idle circuit til the HC levels were near failing levels.

[Jay Tabor]

the topic was holley carbs.. thats the truth..
you go off on some jap carb probs, without indicating that, makes me wonder..
yes i sure saw a lot of problems with japanese built carbs,too, when smogging cars.. they were a mess . .

but we are talking Holley 2300 carbs here.. H-O-L-L-E-Y