Binder Planet
BinderPlanet

Go Back   Binder Planet Forums > General Forums > General IH Tech


2nd Annual North West Poker Run


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-06-2011, 01:54 PM
Jim's Avatar
Jim Jim is offline
Binder Driver
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Oregon
Posts: 874
Default Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

Hi All,

Im in the process of rebuilding a rear Dana 44 in a 1977 Scout II Terra. The old carrier sheared the ring bolts and then these bolts tumbled around causing lots of cool damage.

I have attached some pictures. I dont have much choice but to continue using this housing. There was some galling where the pinion bearing race presses in, but it looks like I should be able to get the new race pressed in. What do you think?

Here are some questions:

1. Any tips for installing the new pinion bearing races other than using the old race upside down. For example is there an easy to make tool that will help drive these into place?

2. How do I press on the new pinion bearing to the new pinion shaft? I see a picture in the manual, but I dont have one of these tools. Do I need to buy a special tool or do I go to a shop to have it pressed on. I dont believe there are any shims on this inner bearing so its just a matter of getting it pressed on.

3. Should I use the same shim thickness for installing the new pinion? These are the large shims that set the pinion depth. I figured the height would be close enough using the same shim thickness. Im putting in all new parts including new Auburn LS carrier. I know I need to create a new shim pack for setting the "left right" position of the carrier including preload.

4. Are there preferred chemicals or process for cleaning this housing? Its a dirty mess.







Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-06-2011, 03:52 PM
Jay Tabor Jay Tabor is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pahrump, Nevada
Posts: 4,716
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

dana spicer website has all the specs for that axle assembly.
Randys Ring AND PINION DOES ,TOO.
GET A SERVICE MANUAL!!!!!!!!!!
if you are swapping R &P, you need to look at face of old and new pinion gear, find the markings such as +.oo3'' scribed on the face.
and compare that with markings on new pinion gear face.
if the marking is same- both are +.003 , then you use exact same shim pack behind new pinion front bearing/ race.
If the new pinion is different and the number is + [plus] more than old gear remove the difference in shim pack thickness.
if the new gear is a minus -."" thousandths then you add the difference and put it in the shim pack.
the nominal pinion depth is 2.50 inches for a dana 44 and the + means 2.50" plus.003[ example.
- sign means 2.50" minus the thousandths of an inch.
hopefull you didnt disturb the original shim pack behind the pinion bearing race . .?????????
the shims behind the carrier bearings should maybe be the same amount behind respective bearing- coast and drive side.
BUTTTTTTTTTT--- IF YOU ARE using a new carrier dont bet on it . .
that may needs be adjusted for proper ring to pinion backlash- expect to adjust it.
and since you doesnt has no tools for pressing the bearings on or off the pinion..........
no tools to remove/ install the carrier bearings . .
you need to ask your self a question or two . .
why am I doing this?

you need case spreader
torque wrench
dial indicator
micrometer
hydraulic press
bearing splitter
assorted bearing tools for pressing/removing the bearings.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-06-2011, 06:12 PM
Jim's Avatar
Jim Jim is offline
Binder Driver
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Oregon
Posts: 874
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

Thanks for the tips. Ive got the manual and all the tools except the press and spreader. Ive done this before, but its been many years. The process is starting to come back now. I will start with the original shim for pinion depth and adjust after setting backlash, preload and pattern. Ive got some set up bearings I made earlier, so hopefully we can get away with only having to press the bearings once. Since the carrier , ring and pinion were destroyed, we are starting from scratch.

I should have read the manual again before posting. Really, the only question I have now is how to get the new pinion bearing onto the pinion shaft. I guess I will take it to a shop and have them press it on for me.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-06-2011, 08:59 PM
Jay Tabor Jay Tabor is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pahrump, Nevada
Posts: 4,716
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

the bearing has to be pressed on.
you cant adjust pinion depth after anything else, its the first step.
smart thing to do is pull off carrier bearings-save the shims and note where/which side they came off of,
then grind out the ID of the bearings, enough to slip fit over new carrier bearing shoulders.
then when you replace the old bearings and shims on new carrier slide it in the housing and check backlash, if its w/in specs, its a quick slide on new shim packs and new bearings on the new carrier and install it.
saves pulling the new bearings two or three times to adjust backlash . .

as to driving in pinion races, snap on, otc, mac all have bearing race drivers.
its worthwhile getting that set, its aluminum drivers that are soft and wont damage the races like another race will do when smacking it to drive it in . .
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:39 AM
Jim's Avatar
Jim Jim is offline
Binder Driver
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Oregon
Posts: 874
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

Thanks again Jay. I will look for a race driver kit, maybe one of the local stores has one. Ill bring the races in to match up something. I already made a set up carrier bearing set last time we did this 10 years ago. Last time I had the benefit of having Sean Shepard here to help. I should have wrote stuff down since my memory isnt so great.

In order to check pinion depth I need a pattern dont I? Last time we did this, it took several attempts to get the shim packs to the ideal settings. First we got the backlash within reason, then checked the pinion depth with a pattern. Then repeated the process to get it as good as possible. If Im missing something please let me know.

Im currently reading all the posts I can find on setting up bearings, As long as the housing didnt get tweaked, I think we will be okay.

PS We got the housing good and clean on the inside and mostly clean on the outside. Hopefully by the end of next weekend we will have the shims all set and ready to have the new carrier bearings pressed on.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-07-2011, 11:36 AM
Jay Tabor Jay Tabor is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pahrump, Nevada
Posts: 4,716
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

clean out the axle tubes real good, might want to paint them, too.
that avoids rust forming and migrating out to the bearings. if you use gear lube to supply the bearings . .
the pinion depth is etched on the pinion gear face.
that depth adjustment is what the dana factory found to be the quietest running of the gears, thats why they put that info on the gear face, ok?
so the installer knows what adjustments to make for quietest running of the gears.you dont have to do it that way..........
if you had pinion depth troubles on previous installs, you-or some one else, in my opinion, did not set up or install the pinion to correct depth to begin with . . .

Want to get all techincal- you can buy a tool that fits in the housing and you can then using the tool -measure pinion depth and adjust it, before installing the carrier and ring gear.
BUT the easy and quick way would be gather all the shims behind the front pinion bearing race, check for the etching on the new pinion gear face as to depth adjustment, ADJUST FOR THAT difference and install the pinion!
you can fool your self and think the pinion depth is off by not having the correct r & p backlash, but once the backlash is.008" you should see that the pattern is kind of middle of ring gear and more towards the heel of ring gear tooth than the toe. which is where its supposed to be.

and pulling it apart 5 and 6 times . .can damage bearings each time you do that . .
or put it together correctly the first time . .
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-07-2011, 12:52 PM
Jim's Avatar
Jim Jim is offline
Binder Driver
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Oregon
Posts: 874
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

Hi Jay,

I had planned on using the +/- info on the pinion as you and the manual mention. But my new pinion has no information stamped on the face. I dont see how trial and error will mess the bearings if Im using a setup bearing for all but the last step.


When I get home from work I will look over the new pinion again to see if there are any marks. I got the set from IH only north and they ordered it from Randy's R&P. Yes, I saved the shim pack that adjusts the pinion depth. If I cant find any markings, I guess I will start with that depth.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:28 PM
Dave Nuenke's Avatar
Dave Nuenke Dave Nuenke is offline
High Wheeler
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Newell, SD
Posts: 1,205
Send a message via AIM to Dave Nuenke Send a message via Yahoo to Dave Nuenke
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

Jim, I wish you were closer, that housing looks rough, and I probably have one that already has a good R&P in it. The pinion bearing is shimmed, measure your old shim pack as a starting point. I have a set of "set up bearings" that I use when I do these (I enlarged the inside so they come on and off easily), one still has to double check with the new bearings but it saves taking bearings on and off a bunch of times. Like jay said, a bearing driver is the best for getting the race into the housing. To ease the pressing on of the new bearings (though you usually still need a press, I heat them up to about 250-275 in a pan of hydrolic oil (use a laser thermometer to check the temp of the bearing itself). Then they pretty much slip right on and just need a nudge from the press. The next best advice I can give you is to measure, measure, measure and follow the service manual, the IH diff section is second to none, and is actually what I used to teach myself how to rebuild diffs.

Dave
__________________
Illuminati Hydrology Division
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Jim's Avatar
Jim Jim is offline
Binder Driver
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Oregon
Posts: 874
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

Hey Dave. I wish I had a source for another housing but there are none close by that I can find. This one looks worse in the pic than it really is. A half dozen ring bolts sheared off and tumbled around inside making some bad scars. But no scars on any bearing surfaces. Im pretty sure the housing is still straight. This Scout is a daily driver to work and we use it as a truck for lightweight hauling. No long distance driving. I figure if I do a half way decent job rebuilding the axle, it will last longer than me, or at least longer than the Scout?

Thanks again for the suggestions.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:55 PM
Dave Nuenke's Avatar
Dave Nuenke Dave Nuenke is offline
High Wheeler
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Newell, SD
Posts: 1,205
Send a message via AIM to Dave Nuenke Send a message via Yahoo to Dave Nuenke
Default Re: Dana 44 Rear Axle Rebuild Questions

If the bearing surfaces are in good shape, then I figure you'll be ok. They really aren't that hard to rebuild, you just have to measure everything about three times and take your time. Our "official mechanic" at work loves to re bearing GM diffs but is scared to death of actually doing a shimmed diff. It's gotten interesting a couple of times because he's one of these people that hates to admit that he's not always right... If you have questions, feel free to ask.

Dave
__________________
Illuminati Hydrology Division
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1977 , axle , bearings , build , case , choice , dana 44 , efi , front , gear , manual , number , parts , pictures , question , rear , rear axle , rebuild , scout , scout ii , stalling , terra , truck , website

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Dana 44 installed have a few questions Wayne Hess General IH Tech 12 08-30-2012 09:22 AM
'89 Scout D44 rear axle bearing questions Pyrate_7 General IH Tech 10 04-24-2008 01:37 PM
Rear Axle Shaft questions? 75ScoutII General IH Tech 5 03-11-2005 05:07 PM
Dana 44 rear axel parts/adjustment questions Bread General IH Tech 20 05-17-2004 07:46 PM
Dana 44 rear axle help Houston General IH Tech 5 02-18-2003 02:38 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

The IH logo, the "IHC" logo, are trademarks respectfully of the International Truck & Engine Corporation and the Case New Holland Corporation.
They are used for identification purposes only.

BinderPlanet® Copyright ©2011