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Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Randall Barringer, Feb 27, 2018.
This stuff is on sale for 97 cents.
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Do you use one of those every oil change on these ol motors?
No bueno... just stick with the Valvoline VR1 Racing oil. Additives may or may not mix with the host oil, and is not recommended per some of the oil companies I called a while back concerning this issue.
I'd buy it for the can. Seems like Shell is exploring a niche market with Wayne Carini for a spokesman.
I stopped using that on the advice of my rebuilder friend, an old man that’s run an engine rebuilding shop forever, his dad ran it before him. He said it was formulated for one trip down the track and wasn’t right for our engines. I don’t know whose advice to take on this stuff.
Hey, for $0.97, what could go wrong.
FWIW, I have a little bottle of Lucas Oil's zinc additive. I used to put a little splash of it in at every oil change. But I also heard it's best not to do this. "too much" zinc, plus possible incompatibilities etc might do more harm than good. And some know-it-all Poindexters say only to put in "good" quality oils that are "designed" to work in our "engines".
According to the petroleum quality institute, Walmart heavy duty 15w40 has as much zinc as you can find in an oil these days. And its decent and dirt cheap. http://pqiadata.org/SuperTech15W40.html. The heavy duties oils (rated for both diesel and spark engines) typically have around 1300 ppm zinc. Typical passenger car oils have around 800 these days. The "high mileage" or "classic car" oils that meet the old SL spec typically have around 1000 ppm. There was a SJ oil listed that they said had 1200 ppm zinc and had the correct physical properties and additives, but most of the SJ (and SL) oils listed failed miserably and would probably trash your engine. Some had "abrasive material" in the oil! It seems there's a whole cottage industry out there making junk motor oil and labeling it with obsolete specs.
I also noticed there is a new spec out for diesel oils, CK. It looks like in many of them the zinc has been reduced the passenger car levels (800ppm or so). Apparently they are not all they're "cracked" up to be. (petroleum pun intended). Ford Motor Company recommended CJ4 oils for their super duty trucks but now says NOT to use the CK4 oils as they wont protect adequately against high mileage wear and will damage the engines. Looks like Ill be stocking up on 5 years (the shelf life of typical oils) worth of CJ4 before its no longer made.
I understand the advice against VR-1, as stated it is for competition heats, not so much stop and go driving or trail use like we see. We need a balanced blend for the moisture, deposits, and acid fighting. Overall I've heard good about Brad Penn and Swepco oils. I've been using Swepco for going on 10 years and no complaints. These oils may not have the API starburst, but their additive levels and the chemistry they use I believe to be very adequate for old iron.
You're saying that's current production? I'd like to see the rest of the can, as the front appears much like a 40 year old can would have looked.
If you choose not to use it in your engine, it might be good for mixing with regular oil to make a Bar and Chain blend to use in chainsaws. I've done that with STP which I got from the 'Toxic Warehouse' (Household Hazardous Waste Giveback Program). Got a bunch more old oil today, but haven't checked to see exactly what. I still have quite a stock of old SE and SF grade oils, the same brands and grades which was then available and recommended when my 800B was new.
It's a current product in kitschy retro packaging...
That doesn't show the back of the can; I was curious about the modern fine print/warnings which the old products didn't have. BTW, the Amzeesong price is ~$16. Wonder where Randall sees it for 97 cents? I bet it would be good as Planer bed lube mix too. Wonder what effect it would have if mixed with Linseed oil for preparing core sand? Might the zinc polymerize the drying any?
Sorry. I misread your question Dana. I thought you were questioning its freshness. I could not find any images of the back side. Not from a can made within the last 60 years anyway.
Here you go.
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I might use this stuff as assembly lube mixed 50/50 with a heavy motor oil. I couldn't find a PDS on the zinc additive product but I did on the oil. Seems like a pointless line of products overall. There are many known GOOD zinc additive products but it's wise not to add stuff like this without knowing about compatibility with the motor oil in the crankcase. As was said above you can over-zinc the oil. ZDDP is like the old three bears thing... too much, not enough and just right.
Does the shell rotella t4 still have good zinc levels?
I don't know. Couldn't find a current CK-4 data sheet that listed it. HMMM? I do know that prior to the CK-4, the dual rated Rotella CJ-4/SM (15W40 or 10W30) still had 1200 ppm but a reliable source told me that the CK-4/SN oils have less than 1200 ppm, but that there are CK-4 ONLY oils that have higher ZDDP levels. I've been too busy to keep up with all the changes so research is required. Stand by...
Here is a recent elemental analysis on T4 CK-4 (no "S" rating at all) and it still shows 1200 ppm zinc.
It looks like the 5W30 and 10W30 universal oils (both diesel and gas rated CK-4/SN) are limited to 800 PPM but 15W40 CK-4/SN or CK-4 are not limited. Many current diesel manufacturers think 1200 PPM is the minimum safe level of zinc and phosphorus, even though they are embracing the 30 grade oils in general for the savings in fuel economy, when applicable. 1200 PPM is at the low edge of about right for a broken-in flat tappet engine as well. I have long used 10W30 diesel oil in my old 6.9L but once I use my stash of older T5, that may have to change. I hardly ever use it in the winter and putting under 2K miles a year on it, the fuel savings difference (they're small but real) between the grades is not significant.
IMO, 15W40 is too heavy for most IH gas engines used the way most people use them. It's not harmful, unless you live in a cold climate, but it's not beneficial either. BUT, if I had the choice of inexpensive 1200 ppm 15W40 CK-4 or CK-4/SN, or inexpensive 800 PPM 10W30 CK-4/SN, I'd go with the 15W40. There are specialty oils, of course, but they add a lot of cost to the equation. Having seen a macro statistical study of ordinary off-the-shelf oils vs the boutique oils and noted not much difference in wear rates between them with normal OCIs, I'd rather not spend the bucks. If you run an extended OCI, you can see the benefits of a boutique oil but old school engines, particularly those that are tired and not in optimal condition, don't do well with extended OCIs because they are dumping so many contaminants into the oil. Your money. Your choice.
Read Tom Glenn's (PQIA) article below, which sheds some light on the 2016 changes going from API CJ-4 rating to CK-4.
I think now I'm even more confused...
So after going to the trouble of rebuilding my 304 what's the best way to protect it?
Find a diesel oil that's NOT duel rated for gas engines so it's more likely to have higher amts. of zinc/phosphorus?
I don't want to use a 15w40 oil. That's too thick for cold weather startup; when most engine wear occurs...
What did I start?