Would this make a good solid sate replacement for starter solenoid?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by scorp1us, Mar 14, 2017.


  1. scorp1us

    scorp1us High Wheeler

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  2. scoutpappa

    scoutpappa Farmall Cub

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    EE in industrial I&E. A solenoid is "solid state". It's basically a magnet.

    Edit: You want no moving parts as in old school but more synonymous with other parts. They don't do well in overcurrent situations vs a coil and moving contacts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  3. Erik Morton

    Erik Morton High Wheeler

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    There is no magnet in that. It is a MOSFET.
    They do make Solid State Relays which would be better.
    The two problems I can quickly think of is you need a circuit to drive the gate on that MOSFET more importantly protect it. It's max is 15V and it will be susceptible to many things. The second concern is the heat. The high Pd and Id ratings you see are assuming adequate heat sinking.
    The final concern is 40V max voltage. This will open across a spinning starter motor which will create an inductive kick, which this may survive a couple of times but won't for long.
    The problem with solid state devices is you have to be very cautious during the transients. Solenoids are very forgiving to transients. If solid state devices are designed for the transients they work well. I don't think this will survive the transients.
     
  4. kevingweq

    kevingweq Y-Block King

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    The starter solenoid on SV engines performs 2 operations , Pulls the starter drive into engagement then makes the contact
    for current to spin the starter motor ,
    Were you thinking of using the solenoid in question as a "sure start" or "hot start " solenoid ?
     
  5. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Yeah, I'm not sure what this thing is supposed to do. Would it be used in a similar way to the common "Ford" starter relay/solenoid? And if so, how would it be an improvement over the Ford piece?
     
  6. scorp1us

    scorp1us High Wheeler

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    Yeah, I was thinking for something to be a solid state remote solenoid.

    Not to get too off topic, I have an issue when I turn the key, I hear a pronounced click, but the starter doesn't turn. I can turn the key up to 10 times before it actually cranks. I do not have a batter voltage or wire connection issue. It "seems" it works better when the engine is warm. But it also does it more when battery voltage is low, but also does it at full charge.
     
  7. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    You also have a 727. Have you given any thought to the possibility of intermittent NSS failure? Shifting from P to N make any difference in starter engagement?
     
  8. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    To test where the problem is, you can hook a test lamp (that you can see from the driver's seat) between Ground and:
    1). The key-switch terminal on the starter. This will confirm that the key switch, NSS, and wire aren't the problem, if it lights.
    2). The R terminal of the starter, the one sending temporary current to the coil. This shows whether the internal 'switch' works.
    3). The M terminal containing the link to the starter motor. Also confirms the internal disc is making good contact.
     
  9. scorp1us

    scorp1us High Wheeler

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    Thanks for the diagnostic procedure. It made me remember that I have a short low-gauge wire in the car for jumping two of the terminals. When I do that, she cranks every time.
     
  10. gwinter1129

    gwinter1129 High Wheeler

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    I don't know what you all said but I enjoyed reading it. I figure if I read enough of these threads something will click. Keep these coming you guys are brilliant. By the way who won the debate?
     
  11. Greg R

    Greg R Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    I addition to Dana's voltage check of the crank circuit, also look for what the voltage is when the crank circuit is engaged. Have a voltmeter at the starter terminal, and check the voltmeter reading when a friend turns the switch for you. Then disconnect the wire and read voltage at the wire. If there is any difference of more than .5 volt between connected and disconnected, there is a dirty or loose connection somewhere in the circuit's path.
     
  12. scorp1us

    scorp1us High Wheeler

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    I don't know a R terminal from the D terminal at BWI.
    But here's a pic with my jumper wire that gets me started. The brown jumper wire is laid out between the two terminals that I short. Screen Shot 2017-04-03 at 10.48.36 PM.png
     
  13. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Boy, those mucho pony power headers are cooking the beejeezus out of everything attached to that starter motor. No wonder you're having issues. You've basically shoved your starter into a blast furnace. Those terminations look very crispy.
     
  14. scorp1us

    scorp1us High Wheeler

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    Haha, the problem predates the headers. The starter is about 5 years old and I've put less than 3000 miles on in that time.

    Is it possible to replace the switch part? The main part of the starter works fine.
     
  15. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    I can't tell from the picture which one the smaller terminal is, but must assume you are jumping from the battery (12v) terminal to the one the key switch wire attaches to. If jumping always works, that tells me the starter is OK but your problem is in the wiring from the switch, possibly at the trans. Neutral Safety Switch, as mentioned earlier.
     
    Erik Morton likes this.
  16. Mike Huebner

    Mike Huebner Farmall Cub

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    You need to fabricate some kind of heat shield. The best solenoid to use is the one that the sleeve doesn't have a seam in it. Back in the day that was a common problem.
     
  17. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    You mean the solenoid? If so, you can pretty much buy those anywhere. NAPA, OReilly, etc. for about $20. Not a bad idea to have a spare.

    if it were me, I'd get those other wires off this solenoid and just run them up to the Ford remote. And maybe get a more solid jumper, either solid copper/steel or 10-ga wire.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Mike Huebner

    Mike Huebner Farmall Cub

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    The seamless starter solenoid are not so easy to find.
     
  19. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    I agree with Patrick in so far as the addition of a remote starter relay is concerned. The stock exhaust manifolds create enough heat issues around the starter. That is compounded exponentially by the aftermarket headers...all for 5 more horsepower and some extra noise. Woobeddydoo. I don't get it, but that's my personal hang up. I'll get over it. The point of this exercise is to get to the bottom of the problem, which should be easier than falling out of bed for anyone that's committed to following through. For a newbie, I might be more gentle. But for someone who's been around quite a while and purports themselves to be a "ScoutMaster", I'll be more blunt. If that approach isn't appreciated, oh well. No skin off my nose. If the starting issues when they appear can be alleviated by simply moving the gear selector from P to N, that pretty much tells you your NSS has gone on a walkabout. If it makes no change, then you need to be looking at your fire wall bulkhead connectors and/ or your ignition switch. Can't be said much more simpler or straight forward than that. Look, I've had a few drinks tonight. Don't anyone get to bent out of shape about it. I'm just being direct.
     
  20. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Although almost all of your last post I agree with, I don't see "Scoutmaster" giving any advice in this thread. Did you have two or three threads open at the same time? Anyway... I will agree and repeat that the problem seems to be in the control circuit, not at the starter, and I saw no indication that any diagnostic tests had yet been performed to confirm or deny that possibility. The OP should find the cause of the problem before arbitrarily replacing parts to fix it, and maybe then he can consider modifications to improve its reliability.
     

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