wiring pointers for direct-to-battery connection

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by scout2000, May 22, 2020 at 3:50 PM.


  1. scout2000

    scout2000 Dreams of Cub Cadets

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,673
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    This is a stupid/basic entry level wiring question for my Scout 800. I purchased a big bluetooth speaker bar for my 800. Pic link here:

    http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/...800a-build-thread.119223/page-28#post-1100107

    The vendor suggest wiring (the supplied wiring harness) directly to the battery. The supplied harness does provide an inline fuse. I know I can get the correct end to the battery, and some how attach it, but its just something I've never done before.

    What is the correct/professional way to attach a device to the battery? few things detract from a vehicle like poor wiring, I just want to do this correctly.

    TIA for helpful comments/URL's/pointers.
     
  2. stevewillis

    stevewillis Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Flagstaff, AZ
    For the physical connection, I would probably crimp a ring terminal on if your battery has bolts at the terminal connectors. If your battery has lugs, you can get something like this:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C41STTJ/

    I actually have these. They are flashier than I like, but it makes it simple to connect bare for accessories wire with just a hex key. Bear in mind that anything connected directly to the battery won't register on your ammeter properly. You might consider connecting the cable with the inline fuse to the proper ammeter terminal instead, but check that your device won't draw more current than the ammeter was designed for.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  3. scout2000

    scout2000 Dreams of Cub Cadets

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,673
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    Thanks for the reply. I'm a big fan of hex fastener anything.

    Not a problem, at least in my case, my ammeter, along with the entirity of my OEM instrument cluster is long gone. Traded off for a set of Jr. West Coast Scout 800 side view mirrors.

    I have replaced all the instruments with AutoMeter gauges + D&C Extreme 4x4 aluminum dash plate.
     
  4. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,107
    Likes Received:
    652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ft Worth, TX
    I know you mentioned in your thread you are putting that speaker in the rear of your vehicle. I’ve often thought a bar type speaker would work well mounted on the dash.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  5. 2dafloor

    2dafloor Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    knoxville
    You didnt mention anything about amp draw but I always use those dual post batteries. The ones with normal male top post and the GM style side post. I add all my accessories to the side post lugs. 10 Gauge and under I crimp and then flow a little solder thru the connection,shrink tube over. large stuff the hydraulic hose place in town has the pro crimp stuff I just buy the wire from them and they crimp every end you can think off. They do all our battery fork truck stuff.
     
    scout2000 and jeff campbell like this.
  6. Darrel

    Darrel Dreams of Cub Cadets

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    857
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Greg R and scout2000 like this.
  7. scout2000

    scout2000 Dreams of Cub Cadets

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,673
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    those last 2 battery and terminal suggestions are gold. I'd purchased a new gel battery just a couple of years back, but will definitely look at options when it is time to replace it.
     
  8. Greg R

    Greg R Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Lebanon, OR
    I second Darrel's post. I've been using the military style for some years now. They're great hook ups for light to heavy loads as for the starter or a winch. They look pro too, and tight without collapsing like many folks do with the lead ends.

    It's not a good idea to solder a crimped connection. 1) heat may relax the crimp, tight compression is what the connection depends on. Unless the solder is electrical grade, such as for tinning, the flux can be a source of corrosion that spreads up the wire. 2) Most electricity flows on the outside of a conductor, so soldering has little value in a clean metal to metal crimped bond. A little dielectric to seal out moisture and then heat shrink would be more helpful.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020 at 2:00 AM
    scout2000 likes this.
  9. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    682
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    Strip a piece of lamp cord bare, wrap it around the positive post then jam the terminal over it. Dont worry about any strands sticking out, if they touch metal they will just burn off. Dont forget to route it near the exhaust manifold.

    Just kidding.
    I would crimp a ring lug onto the wire and connect it to the back of the alternator.

    If you connect it to the starter where the battery cable connects, or directly to the battery , when the engine is off, it will draw power off the battery directly. That *sounds* good, but when the engine is *on* it will draw power off the alternator through the wiring harness in the dash, and through the alternator gauge. This will cause the alternator gauge to show a constant "charging" condition, as if you had a bad battery that was constantly charging but never reaching proper voltage. The more things you connect directly to the battery, or the starter the worse it gets.

    Then only issue is that the dash wiring cant take large amounts of current. The factory alternator probably put out 38 amps max. But that really does not make a difference, it either draws it through the harness when off or it does it when its on, depending on whether its hooked up to the alternator or battery.

    If you MUST hook it directly to the battery ID crimp a ring lug on it and connect it at the starter.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020 at 2:18 AM
    scout2000 likes this.
  10. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,107
    Likes Received:
    652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ft Worth, TX
    I’d follow Mr Kenmore’s lead
    2DB3E051-78E3-4CCB-989F-363740859B27.jpeg
    You could probably wire a relay such that the hub was only powered with key on. Or just not worry about it.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  11. wjajr

    wjajr Binder Driver

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2015
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Eddington
    Easiest and cheapest method to land a conductor onto a car battery is to crimp on appropriate sized eye for gauge wire being used , stress relive and weather proof the crimp by covering with shrink -wrap, and land it under the battery clamp bolt. Be sure to install an inline fuse holder. If more connections are needed run a heavy gauge conductor from battery to a remote fused power distribution block where separate circuits can be split off.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  12. 2dafloor

    2dafloor Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    knoxville
    Thats why I solder a little, over time crimps seem to loosen on smaller wires and you loose the connection. I actually use silver solder for strength then cover with dielectric grease and shrink. But when I ran out of the sliver solder I had I never found what I wanted again so I just use the basic stuff.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  13. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    682
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    The problem is, connecting directly to the battery mAkes the alternator gauge read wrong. But if you have to or want to do it, the bolt on the starter where the red battery cable connects is probably best. Alternativly, get a new battery cable that has a second smaller wire.
     
  14. MrKenmore

    MrKenmore Y-Block King

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    3,418
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Thanks for the nod RinTX! Those Blue Sea Safety Hub products are great! I have the baby version on the Terra. The picture is the mock up for the Travelall.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  15. MrKenmore

    MrKenmore Y-Block King

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Messages:
    3,418
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    And the milspec battery terminals are the best. I use on both IH's.

    FYI - Both my ammeters are deleted / bypassed. Do NOT land wires on your battery positive if your ammeter and battery charge wiring is stock. The path for the juice is a long one. No need to stress the barely adequate wiring and connectors.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  16. wjajr

    wjajr Binder Driver

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2015
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Eddington
    Here is a method of making voltage regulator control battery voltage and correct alternator output charge level. I would and have by passed the amp gauge on my Dart and use remote voltage sensing; works great.
     
  17. scout2000

    scout2000 Dreams of Cub Cadets

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,673
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    Thank you again everyone for coddling me with my junior level question. I had no idea that there were so many great options for battery terminals.

    The other thing that I've learned from this thread, I didn't realize this, but it seem a goodly percentage are currently running the OEM IH amp meter in their Binders.
     
  18. Greg R

    Greg R Lives in an IH Dealership

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Lebanon, OR
    I only swapped out my ammeter a few years ago for the main reason that most rebuilt alternators are 50 amp rated or more. The local auto electric shop sez that if I stayed with OEM 36 amp it was a longer wait, that plus the dry bearing alternator I was replacing was already 50 amp and who knows how many before me. The Delco DN series is still popular for older rigs, just that the 50 amp covers more platforms. I initially went with a circuit breaker for the ammeter/cab wiring as I noticed that low battery/heavy charging really got the ammeter warm . I then moved the alternator output to the starter with "remote" sensing already in place. As the ammeter was "side lined", it was just natural to go to a volt meter. My take is voltage follows current, so low volts mean it's time to start looking. With a good battery doing heavy winching , with winch leads off the battery, does little to upset the system so remote sensing in the field works.

    Whether you connect into the battery or a load center, figure best practice. Draw is draw, a load center keeps it logical, expansion, and easy for diagnostics & safety with fuses in one location. Something to think about is draw. With today's computer controlled cars, they might go a few weeks? a month? without driving or starting but often the battery will be very low. With a mid-life battery, it probably is too low to start. I've gone a year with my Scout in the shop and she still cranks with vigor. Sound systems are optional, maybe a kill switch but then does the programming sets go away?

    Food for thought, soap box moment: How does or why does MAD, and others, consider old car mechanical regulation "primitive"? Can they build one, from scratch? Could they think up one with all the stuff that goes into one including temperature compensation? I know I couldn't, just the math alone from Maxwells to Henrys is daunting, Now it does take brains to put that tech onto a PCB and VLSI with much tighter control and hysteresis; but the parameters were already laid in the days of analog and slide rule.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  19. Scoutboy55

    Scoutboy55 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Monrovia, CA
    Scout2000, I would go with the battery post or the starter post; whichever is the shorter/convenient path.
    And not to hijack, but to add to Greg R (he has great points, and obviously well versed on the subject), I would say leave the ammeter in place. They were designed and built to do the job up to 50 amps, and you need to do quite a bit to surpass that. And the way I understand it, the Super Volt 5000 alternator people like to swap is only going to provide the amps the system needs. Not all 200 at once. Could a hi output alternator cause a failure using the stock ammeter? Absolutely. But its like dropping a 454 in an S-10. You could absolutely scatter the trans and wimpy rear end, but if you kept your foot out of it, there's no reason to panic. Same with a hot rod alternator. It won't automatically hurt an otherwise functional stock ammeter. And for those of us that like the stock gauge layout, that's reason enough to keep it. And personally, I have never witnessed an ammeter failure in a Jeep, Scout or Mopar
    That's my soapbox 2 cents.
     
    scout2000 likes this.
  20. mallen

    mallen Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    682
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sacramento,California
    High output alternators WILL cause your wiring to smoke and catch fire if you try to start the truck with a mostly dead battery or jump start someone. With a 38 amp alternator, if you try to draw more than the alternator can supply (which is far less than 38 amps at idle) the voltage sags and the current is limited. With the shiny new CS144 120 amp alternator or the aftermarket ones that can put out 200 amps (im a bit skeptical of that, but they can certainly top 120) not only can they supply that current when the engine is running at high rpm, they can easily supply upwards of 80-100 amps at idle. The dead battery will pull a huge current and the wiring in the dash simply cant take it. Its not just what Ive read on the internet but in fact something that happened to me. Fortunately I realized what was going on before it caused to much damage. I had been trying to fix what turned out to be an iffy fuel pump and an iffy set of points. I was cranking the engine and messing with stuff and cranking the engine again. I tapped on the fuel pump and tried it again and it started. And then the wiring under the dash started to smoke. I had decided that "It would be fine" until I could do something to deal with the issues of high current when I upgraded the alternator. When I saw the smoke I knew it was NOT "fine" and turned it off immediately. There was only one spot of badly melted insulation thankfully. I put a bypass wire from the alternator to the battery and it started right up and ran with no fireworks.

    The moral of that story is, yes, under some operating conditions, it WILL draw the whole 200 and bad things will happen and you may not be as lucky as me. THere are ways to keep your alternator gauge and make it work properly, but either you need to install an "active shunt" which keeps the gauge working, or just put in a bypass and accept that the gauge wont work.
     

Share This Page