Why hydroboost?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Jon, Oct 31, 2005.


  1. stu simpson

    stu simpson High Wheeler

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    I have briefly corrsponded with Van about the kit, and if you are talking about the one within your thread posted by someone else, I think I'll just cut metal. It is an interesting way to get around the space issue, but I have seen other pics of it and it seems a little rube goldberg. I guess if it works, why complain, though, right?
     
  2. Eldon McFarling

    Eldon McFarling Farmall Cub

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    There is a right angle mount used on a GM full sized van you could use. I think if I was doing an 80 or 800 I would do the cut and weld. the unit is not very big and making a small indentation in the inner fender seems like the easiest solution. The vacuum booster would need a pretty large cutout, but since you have the pump already the Hydro-boost would be the best choice.

    Just to fan the fire a bit more you might look at the Powermaster in the image attached. I have not tried one of these, and I don't think it would be as reliable as the Hydro-boost in the long run, but might be worth a try for the folks that don't have a pump.

    Eldon
     

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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  3. ollie

    ollie High Wheeler

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    That was a superb post Eldon!!! thanks, I learnt a ton.
     
  4. Carl Wiese

    Carl Wiese Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Eldon,

    Don't get me wrong, I am considering swithcing my truck over to hydroboost, mainly to do away with the alternator and vacuum pump set up. I was just pointing out one of the negatives. I have personally lost my belts on my diesel, out of no where, no steering, no brakes. Fortunatly, I was able to wrangle the truck to a stop, make a U-turn and head back to John's house and replace said belt. I understand you have better stopping power with the HB, and even stated with bigger pressure reservoirs, you can maintain that power.

    There is no perfect braking system, I just wanted to point out one thing to think about when it comes to switching to HB. Will it keep me from changing? No, I have weighed my options, and wanted to give anyone else considering it the same info I had.
     
  5. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Me, personally, I think a couple a simple leaf spring shims like 4* set side by side would work good.
    Measure the angle you need and pick up the shims.
    If you use steel you can weld them together and paint to match.
    If you go aluminum then polish them and shoot some clear on them!
    As long as the plunger is in a straight line to the pedal you should be fine.
    As for astetics.... I see some MC's pointed up and down on newer cars and trucks to make them fit. The bronco kit is 90* and the one Eldon just talked about is 90*. So it's just personal preference if the operation is not affected.

    my .02
     
  6. Eldon McFarling

    Eldon McFarling Farmall Cub

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    ollie, I am glad you learned from it and found it useful. Over the past 5+ years this has been one of the top subjects I get email on. Diesel related would be first, transmission lubrication second and Hydro-Boost account for about 90% of the email I recieve.

    Carl,

    On the list of things on the downside this is about the only one that is somewhat valid, and it really works out better to have the Hydro-boost overall if you lose the power source gas, or Diesel. In the past we have discussed using an electric vacuum pump to back up the original system, or the Hydro-Max system on a Scout to get the benefit of the backup hydraulic pump, the problem there is the availability of a master cylinder with a bore size suitible for the rest of the brake system. While the truck and bus systems have 4 wheel disc's, the calipers have a dual piston which requires much more volume to operate compared to the single piston calipers used on light vehicles. Adapting a stock Scout master cylinder to the Hydro-Max unit, or adapting the backup hydraulic pump to the Hydro-boost unit may be possibilities, but from expierience with my own rig I have come to the conclusion the backup pump is not really neccessary when you have the Hydro-boost system. The main thing is you want to avoid the situation like you expierienced when you lost your belts on the Diesel and you had to drag your feet to get the thing to stop. ;)


    Agreed. Nothing is perfect. the best thing you can do is research, use a forum like this to get the expierience of others, and make the choice that fits your needs the best. That is why you have to use your crystal ball and figure out the worst situation you could find yourself in. In about every worst case the power assist is not available so it comes down to what works best with no assist, and the best I have seen so far is the Hydro-boost.



    I took a look at my 80 to get an idea what would be best. I see what you mean on the shims, what you were doing is shimming so the MC end clears the inner fender. My preference would be to mount the unit without the shims and make room in the fender. it looks pretty easy to me, you could even bolt or rivit a piece in if you don't have a welder. If you have the skills to modify your brake system you surely could do a minor change like that. I wasn't concerned with a slight angle on the MC, but I just want to make sure the unit is mounted securely. I would prefer to use the 90* mounting in a situation where there is no other possible way to mount the unit, like the stubb nosed GM van. the 90* mount uses a bellcrank affair to change the direction of the input which complicates it somewhat.

    Eldon
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  7. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Where are you guys finding the parts for less than a hundred bucks? the wrecking yards around here are geting around $150 just for the booster.
    And the VANCO kit is $645 when I checked a minute ago. :confused:
     
  8. Eldon McFarling

    Eldon McFarling Farmall Cub

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    Junkyards seem to go from bad to worse all the time. A friend told me about some place his brother-in-law worked at. he said they were crushing a bunch of cars and did I need anything. I sez see if they have any Diesels with Hydro-boost's. Turns out they do $$100 ish IIRC for the booster if I come and take it off. the difference in weight would be what less than a buck for the iron? I just let 'em crush 'em. I can buy the whole car for less.

    The local brake specialty shop can sell the rebuilt booster for around $250, new MC around $50, rebuilt pump with res for less than $100, hoses are about $25 or so. better way to go instead of paying for some fat cats cigars and getting worn out iron. You do have to be very careful as Van pointed out, sometimes the quality of rebuilt stuff is less than desireable. Your brake system is not the place to take chances on the quality of the parts.

    Remember this: It doesn't matter how fast the thing can go, but IT MUST BE ABLE TO STOP.

    The Vanco kit doesen't seem out of line for quality componants and tech support if you want a bolt on conversion kit. Just consider what several trips back to the iron pile, or shoddy parts supplier will cost you in fuel cost alone at todays prices.

    YMMV

    Eldon

    "If we get rid of our politicians they would have to get honest jobs like robbing banks" -Kinky Friedman
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2005
  9. 13letter cussword

    13letter cussword Farmall Cub

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    if the brake system has enough power to lock up the tires, then nothing can be gained by getting a better system except abs. if the tires do lock up, then look into getting tires with better traction. if the brakes are the problem, get better pads. i like the ceramic pads with a lifetime warranty. i would only change the brake system if you are going to be towing something heavy. But thats just me. good luck
     
  10. Socha's75Scout

    Socha's75Scout Farmall Cub

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    Very interesting.....I think I want a hydroboost system now!!!
     
  11. ChiScouter

    ChiScouter Farmall Cub

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    Seems like the guys who don't think hydroboost is a worthy modification haven't driven a scout with it. I did it a couple of years after going to 4whl discs and a dual diaphram vac booster. It stops much better than even the 4whl disc improvment made. The pedal feel and immediate breaking forces you get is very similar to what new vehicle brakes feel like. The ability to lock up your wheels is not really a indication of how well your rig stops. New vehicles stop a whole lot better than 30 year old Scouts, going to hydroboost puts you a lot closer to being able to stop as well as the new car in front of you. I bought the whole system from a 4whl disc caddy, hoses and porp valve included for about 40 bucks at a boneyard. Making the metal plate took maybe a 1/2 hour and instillation only took another couple of hours.

    I met one of the vanco guys at a sema show last spring, the guy I met was very nice and answered a lot of questions for me. Though they don't give out all their secrets they seem to be one of the most helpful venders I have come across.
     
  12. WRENCH MAN

    WRENCH MAN Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Must be nice living back east where cars rot out after a couple years, and they give used parts away CHEAP!
    Around here newer cars like that get repaired, or are TOTALY destroyed in the wreck that put them in the bone yard, virtualy 0 of our cars are rust bombs, it seams like if you go looking for a certin part they are all broken too, the recyclers strip the cars befor they put them in the yard and they get money for the parts they pull.
    Must be related to the comments the inlaws from Wisconsin say when they visit, "I can't beleive all the OLD cars still driveing around!", my responce "what old cars?", if it's not 30+ years old it aint OLD!
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    ---I was just browsing the topic and chuckling about the dos and don'ts and nodding to the good points. What struck me funny was that you are running ceramic pads. Those are not for off-road use and probably never will be AFAIK. They also are not yet offered for Scouts, so they don't play a part in this topic. However, it is nice to see the ceramic pads coming out with a lifetime warranty, for which vehicles they are applicable to.

    ---What I can't understand is how it can be said that the drums and rotors won't be harmed by switching to this setup. Though I know the IH calipers, rotors and drums are fairly stout, if you add more power to the braking, how is that going to effect the size of the piston and braking surface. Rotors warp from people panic braking. It might make a difference how much force is applied to the pedal, but when you step up to something larger than 33" tires, IMHO, it is time to step up to a bigger braking system. The Chitvy 1 Ton drums and rotors are considerbly larger than that of the Scout II, along with the brake shoes and discs. I would hate to think that someone would build a Scout to be less* safe than a GM.

    ---As for comfort in driving yeah, there's nothing with more unneeded coushie accessories than a Cadillac. For this reason I could see hydraboost as being a nice addition. On long hauls, my leg and shoulder can get pretty stiff. Anything that would contribute to making the trip more comfortable is welcome and Eldon, if you've posted the info on the Powermaster prior to two years ago, I am sorry I missed it. I had a Custom Cruiser that could have donated the unit... just never thought of it.
     
  14. ScoutmanSV

    ScoutmanSV Y-Block King

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    Gad with all the brake failures/accidents all over the web concerning SII's why wouldn't everyone go Hydro? ;)

    Hydro has the advantage of more pressure > but is it really needed? I don't think so > least ways I've never needed it in 18yrs of wheelin'/DD my SII's ... even w/35's.

    If it makes ya feel safer (I'll bet it does on downhills w/an auto trans :eek: ) & you like a soft(er) pedal > go hydro.

    My motto: if it ain't broke > don't 'fix' it: drive it.

    See ya 'round the trails .... if you're not working on yours. :cool:

    .02,

    :D

    Disc is (much) better than drum tho' ... ;)
     
  15. ScoutmanSV

    ScoutmanSV Y-Block King

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    PS: Don't tailgate & ya don't have to worry about that lighter new car (w/ABS) stopping shorter than you. ;) :rolleyes:


    :cool:
     

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