Which Throwout Bearing Collar Goes on My Truck?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Chris Cooper, Jun 9, 2019.


  1. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    The shop the rebuilt my clutch had issues pressing a new bearing on the collar off my truck, and so apparently bought a new TO bearing assembly that we could not make work on my transmission: the release fork would bind up on it, and it wouldn’t slide on. 300 miles of driving, and my plan to install the engine shot to hell.

    I ordered another (“image coming soon”) and got only the bearing, no collar. 300 more miles and my plan to install the engine shot to hell yet again.

    I’m fed up with this shot-in-the-dark trend, so I ask: which collar fits a ‘72 1310 with a 304 & T98? The one I have measures 2” in length from the back of the bearing, IHPA lists another 3 1/4” total length (I’m assuming mine is the 2 3/4” one they also list).

    Anyone got any Ideas? I gotta get this engine back in this truck in this lifetime.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  2. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Could the fork be bent or installed wrong (backwards)? Do you have the original carrier and does it have a number cast into it? Was the carrier right but they got the wrong bearing to go onto it? Does/did the old bearing have a number on it?

    Someone else here may either have the right parts book or personal experience, but I don't.
    If you can get the IH numbers for the right bearing carrier and bearing, they might cross-reference to part numbers you can more easily find. Since you didn't list which clutch model (list number) you have and I don't have a parts book for that vehicle to determine which parts are used with which units, I can't tell you,... but would suggest listing the numbers from your LST, if you have one, or posting pictures of the clutch housing in case different bearing units are used with different clutches. The more information, the better; is the linkage hydraulic or mechanical? For example, my 800B book shows a couple of different carriers for vehicles with 304 engines, depending on whether cable-operated or mechanical linkage is used, while different engines are shown using different components.

    BTW, if you go to your Personal Details and list your location, it will show in the box to your left and might make connecting with people or parts in your area more likely.
     
  3. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

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    Do you or the shop still have the original throw-out collar? I’d start there. It worked before right?!
    As Dana mentioned - apparently the fork can be installed backwards.
     
  4. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    The clutch worked great before we pulled the engine to replace the rear main seal, and the fork has not been removed or altered in any way since then.

    That bearing collar is long gone, which is why I'm in this fix-- I have to start over essentially, and I want to know what I'm looking for before I start shopping for parts...again.
     
  5. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Did you notice my comment about Location?
    Did you get to see the collar and do you have a general idea of what it looked like? Was it fairly long (3 to 4X bearing thickness), or short, etc? Any chance it looked much like this:

     
  6. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    Location updated. Don't know why I hadn't already done that.

    I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the bearing assembly because I had been told a new bearing would be pressed onto the collar & returned to me, consequently all I can tell you with any certainty is that it looked kind of like the one in the IHPA listing for the 2 3/4' assembly. If I felt like I needed to freeze a mental image or even a phone pic of it, I would have but I felt no imperative for doing so. The new one is a 2 3/4", but I don't have much confidence it's the correct one because the forks wouldn't fit in their assigned groove on the collar as provided.

    I have no LST, it was gone when I got the truck. I also have no list number for the clutch-- I didn't know such a thing existed. It's an 11" clutch, IIRC, but I can't say that for sure, and it's 150 miles away. I can call & get a measurement on it, but that'll have to be tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  7. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    [​IMG]

    The original TOB in place, showing linkage, and bearing. As I remember it was easy to remove.

    That pic is dated 10/13/18, the day we pulled the engine.
     
  8. Mike Huebner

    Mike Huebner Farmall Cub

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    It all depends what bell housing is being used. I am using a bell housing out of a loadstar 1600 which takes a longer collar - 3 - 3/4. The bell housing I removed was used in pickups which used a 2-3/4. Another factor is the pressure plate height. When you go to a larger clutch assembly this can create problems. Make sure the fork is fitting properly into the collar. Check the shaft that goes through the housing for excessive wear. Make sure the bolt that goes through the clutch fork hasn’t sheared off. Inspect the linkage for excessive wear.
     
  9. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    The clutch is stock to my knowledge, but who knows? This truck was a fire truck, and before that a government bucket truck. Anything could have been changed since '72. I know the engine has: it has a rebuilder's tag on it from 1974.

    The fork did not fit in the collar when I tried to install the engine. I spent three hours trying various ways to slide it on there, but the fork interfered with the tabs on the collar (or vice versa) at the angle the forks needed to be tilted to start them in their groove on the collar when starting it on the input shaft sleeve (if that makes any sense). I could slide it onto that sleeve a certain distance, and then the forks bound up on the collar and it would go no further. Nine-line bind. We then chamfered the tabs very gradually so they might clear the back of the forks and allow them to angle into their grooves. When we did finally get the forks to seat in the collar grooves, then the TOB wouldn't return because of those chamfers. :censored:

    Wear on the shaft/housing is minimal (no slop at all), the clutch fork bolt is good (I am pretty well acquainted with it-- I removed it at one point to slide the fork around on the shaft in effort to make this mess function), and the linkage seems to be in good repair. It worked well when I test drove the truck.

    Thanks Mike for your reply.
     
  10. Mike Huebner

    Mike Huebner Farmall Cub

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    Learned something new. Never thought it’s possible to get the fork to fit in the collar by doing that. I guess as long as free play can be set properly that’s all that counts. Seen my share of collars installed with the grease zerk facing toward the top of the bell housing. Never been a fan of using chassis grease to grease the bearing. Back in the day it provided good job security replacing clutch discs due to premature failure from over greasing.. Good luck.
     
  11. Gringo Gomez

    Gringo Gomez Farmall Cub

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    Remove the fork shaft.
    Slide the collar in place with zerk facing hand hole.
    Locate the fork on the collar.
    Reinstall the fork shaft into the bell housing through the fork and out the other side.
    Check for proper (adequate) TOB travel.
     
  12. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    That probably sums it up as well as anything. I guess I'll buy both the 2 3/4" and the 3 1/4" bearings & see which one fits & return the one (or two) that doesn't. Par for the course on this build.
     
  13. Gringo Gomez

    Gringo Gomez Farmall Cub

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    Use all three hands.
     
  14. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    I did that, quite a few times in fact, and something I don't recall would not allow that method to work without some grinder/Dremel work. As I mentioned above, that grinder work resulted in doubts the bearing would retract properly based on the assumption that the fork return spring is what retracts the bearing. I kept thinking about getting that engine installed & buttoned up only to find some sort of problem with the bearing, so I called TOD on the whole clutch/engine install until a replacement bearing could be found.

    Thank you for the idea.
     
  15. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    The hand I too frequently am tempted to use has a two-pound end on it.
     
  16. Gringo Gomez

    Gringo Gomez Farmall Cub

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  17. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    If the transmission to bell housing were misaligned or cocked a bit so that the input shaft and bearing retainer tube were angled upward and/or too high, then the clearance between the TO fork and bearing collar would be reduced and when the clutch shaft rotated, the fork might hit and bind when 'going over center' or if the bends in the fork couldn't go through the collar's slots. Also, I think I asked before if dowels were used at the bolt holes to position the two units.
    I've always had to closely examine parts as I tried to move them, in situations like this, to see where the problem was. Hard to do from a distance, meaning when just online. How much freedom do you have to do such examination when you're at the shop?
    Are you sure the binding is in the lower bell housing area and not in the higher linkage, due to the vehicle being lifted (on jackstands)? Am I grasping at straws here ....?
     
  18. Chris Cooper

    Chris Cooper Farmall Cub

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    The truck is sitting on the ground with the tranny chained up to the frame rails pretty much as it was when the engine came out, although we did have to replace a broken crossmember. I'll check how that sleeve around the input shaft looks over 4th Weekend.

    I wish I had closely examined the original collar when I removed it. It worked great-- I loved the way that truck shifted a year ago when I drove it. I just didn't realize I'd never see that function-verified collar again.

    One of the dowels was missing when we pulled the engine, but I got a replacement from IHPA.
     

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