Ways to heat a siezed engine?

Discussion in 'The Truck Stop' started by IHarvM3h4, Apr 30, 2018.


  1. IHarvM3h4

    IHarvM3h4 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I have a seized engine pretty sure just from sitting. Its a IH 269 BD. I'm looking for any info on the best way to heat the engine without cracking the block from too much heat. I am not going to use a torch so that's out of the question. I'm pretty sure the key is heat. I have already put ATF in the cylinders, so just looking for ideas on the best way to heat the engine would be.
     
  2. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    Is the head in place, or can you see the piston tops?
    Do you think any water was present and that rust has built up between the pistons and cylinder walls, or rather that just gum from oil or gasoline is the binder? Is the engine in a vehicle, or out, on a stand?
    I would suggest first removing any excess oil, then adding Oil of Wintergreen (Methyl Salicylate) (1/2 oz. per cyl.?) and letting it soak in, then tapping the piston tops with a round length of wood at least 3/4 the cylinder area, using a 5# lead block as the hammer.
    If you can do it safely, heat oil in a bucket (very hot, perhaps 300-350*) and pour into cylinders. Aluminum pistons will at first expand, compressing deposits on sides; subsequent cooling (plus the slower heating of the block) will eventually provide increased clearance. I assume pistons are aluminum in that engine.

    To more directly answer your question,... and depending on how hot you want, a radiant propane heater directed at the engine side, with sensitive parts (e.g. distributor) removed if necessary, can heat the whole block. Cover the bottom and other side with an old blanket to insulate there, but keep the heater far enough away to spread the heat and prevent ignition of flammables.
     
  3. IHarvM3h4

    IHarvM3h4 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    The head is on the engine and in the truck, its probably been sitting for Id say 15 years or so. The oil looks black but no signs of water appear to be present. I took the plugs out and there was a layer of surface rust on them. Your idea of heating oil has intrigued me. That's a good idea that I might consider.
     
  4. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    AZ
    The key is not heat. Use a breaker bar on the crank and try to spin it. If no go, use a big pry bar on the flywheel gear. Still no go, pull the head.
     
  5. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    I have often wondered how a mixture of paint thinner, ATF and Dry Ice poured into an open cylinder would affect a stuck piston. Wouldn't do it outside in a snowy winter, though. The purpose of this, just as with heat, is to break loose any bond between the surfaces. Heat can also soften gummy materials and allow some dissolution of them, but pulling or pushing the pistons up or down will ultimately be needed. The crank-turning often works, but sometimes hydraulic jacks against the tops of a few pistons (the right ones, moving the same way wrt crank revolution) can be needed.
    BTW, where are you located? You can edit the Personal Details of your Profile to add that to the box on the left of your post. Hover the cursor over your name on the top right to get there.
     
  6. IHarvM3h4

    IHarvM3h4 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Well I pulled the truck around in high range, 4wd, forth gear with a loader and it didn't budge, although I was dragging it on muddy ground. So I was thinking of trying some tricks without pulling the head. Its so not good for the engine to do that but it was worth a shot. That's why I was thinking heat. Not glowing red, but just enough to break the rings free. I have a Ford gtb that was seized do to water. I took the head off and pulled the oil pan off then loosened the rod caps. With a little tap the pistons freed up. I know this engine isn't as bad.
     
  7. IHarvM3h4

    IHarvM3h4 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I have heard of a bunch of different chemicals to put in there but haven't heard much of people heating the block. I would think the heat would create greater tolerances between the rings, piston, and block to allow the liquid to seep down the cylinder.
     
  8. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    Different metals have different coefficients of expansion, cast iron having a smaller one than most others, aluminum included. Engineers design machines, particularly those like engines which operate at higher than ambient temperatures, with this in mind. The piston-to-block clearances can decrease with heat, but chemical activity, including thinning of liquids and dissolving of solids, do increase, and clearances again increase when everything cools, so heat may still help by "breaking parts loose".
     
  9. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    659
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    If it was my engine and I had money to burn, I'd fly Dana up and let him have at it. :) It seems like he already has a 100 different ways to skin this cat.

    shifting gears

    And...full disclaimer....no actual experience here.

    Its been a while, but I had been going thru the forum archives and had come across a similar thread with a locked up engine. Early in the thread, someone had suggested using industrial sorghum, followed by a bunch of other members endorsing this plan.

    Anyone else remember that thread? Its been at least 3 or 4 years ago.
     
  10. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    Not in detail, but that thread probably also mentioned Coca Cola, which has sugar, phosphoric acid and carbonic acid (dissolved Co2) in it and is good for dissolving/converting rust. Sorghum ferments, producing alcohol and later acids (mainly vinegar), the latter which also dissolves rust slowly. Oxalic Acid is better (a dicarboxic acid, has two reactive groups and greater activity) and ascorbic acid also works. The old farmers tried about everything based on things they noticed in real life, like metal tools left in a fermenting vat. getting cleaned.
     
    Mustang likes this.
  11. IHarvM3h4

    IHarvM3h4 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    NO luck with the engine its still locked up. Im going to eventually pull the cylinder head off of it but need to find the gaskets. Its a 1941 international M3H4 with a 269 BD. Does anyone know where to find gaskets for it?
     
  12. Mustang

    Mustang Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    120
    Trophy Points:
    43
    You might try rock auto. I order from them just about every week. Here is another old farmer trick you can try before you pull the head. Grease! Take an old spark plug, hollow it out and brass a grease zirk on the top. Try to get an idea of which cylinder is locked up from your plugs and under your valve cover. Start with the best guess and pack it tight. You might have to do all of them to get enough pressure -which means making a whole set of plug-zirks. If it's locked real bad you may have pressure up daily for a week.Grease guns out a lot of pressure. A lot of bulldozers use them for adjusting the tracks. Anyway the grease forces it's way down and puts down pressure on the pistons. It's a messy clean up, but it usually works. If not then you were going to pull the head any way. It's my last resort before pulling the head.
     
  13. holyrider

    holyrider Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Emmett, ID
    How about - if you have a hot water source close by, hooking up a garden hose to a heater hose outlet and running hot water through the block's coolant passages.
     
  14. Mustang

    Mustang Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    120
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Things I try before grease are penetrating oil instead of tranny fluid, or water! It sounded crazy to me,but the man that told me was a lot smarter than me and he explained that water has a finer molecule structure than oil so it penetrates better.I was very doubtful,but he proved it to me on the next couple of froze up parts we had. If you try the grease method then don't forget to close all the valves. I haven't ever tried the hot and cold you were talking about, but if you want cold then you could try to get some liquid nitrogen and pour in the cylinders. If you can't get any then a propane bottle with a bbq hose will do. I haven't use it for what your trying,but for other things, a product called freeze your nuts off has worked well for me.It is penetrating oil mixed with maybe butane or something similar in a spray can. The bad part is it takes quite a bit for it to work. If you decide to pull the head and can't find a gasket there is a company that makes custom head gaskets. Not sure of the name but I m sure you could Google it. Good luck
     
  15. skidder

    skidder Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    white vingar works great on froze up stuff,
     
  16. kevingweq

    kevingweq High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,876
    Likes Received:
    552
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sudbury Mass
    Randall Barringer and IHarvM3h4 like this.
  17. Dana Strong

    Dana Strong Y-Block King

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, Ca.
    I took a quick look at that site and noticed mention of Captain Crunch, as if he was an acquaintance of the "King". Do you know either of the two? FWIW, here's an old article about the Captain:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB116863379291775523

    I know a fellow who claims to be an old friend of his (Draper).
     
  18. IHarvM3h4

    IHarvM3h4 Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    That bar starter is awesome.
     
  19. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    AZ
    KOOs a pretty cool guy for sure. He is a member of my welding bulletin board. Definitely knows how to get cantankerous motors to start.
     
  20. kevingweq

    kevingweq High Wheeler

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,876
    Likes Received:
    552
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sudbury Mass
    I only know KoO ( Joey Barnes) through the internet , and Capn Crunch (Brian Foster) from posting on Redpower forum

    KoO and Crunch had many lengthy and funny discussions on the intricacies of fixing and running old "TD" IH Dozers
    from what I gather their postings really helped the site prosper
     

Share This Page