V8 Cam in a 4 banger

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by erkmar1961scout, Feb 20, 2019.


  1. erkmar1961scout

    erkmar1961scout Farmall Cub

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    I am disillusioned by the lack of "on the shelf" cam grind options for the 152 and 196. There are few good options for the V8. Knowing that IH offered one cam profile for all V8's and 4cyl engines. The timing gears are universal. The cam design and cam bearings are all the same. Combine that with the fact that the 152 and 196 are 1/2 of a V8 and I can see no reason that it would work. Has anyone put the V8 cam in a 152 or 196? I can see no reason why it would not work.
     
  2. blue smoke

    blue smoke High Wheeler

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    I think the firing order of the v-8 and I 4 are different. So the cam would not line up correctly
     
  3. 1975IH200

    1975IH200 High Wheeler

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    QUOTE [I can see no reason why it would not work.]
    I see two reasons it will not work.
    1. SV-8 Camshaft lobes are in the wrong location for the I-4 engine in relation to firing order.
    2. SV-8 camshaft does not have a cam lobe for the center mounted mechanical fuel pump of the I-4 engine in question.
    Ergo, IH SV-8 camshaft into an IH I-4 engine will not work.
    However....you could run an electric fuel pump to counter item 2. And for item 1, you could have the SV-8 camshaft lobes ground down to their base circle, then have the eight lobes that will be used for the I-4 engine welded up and ground to the profile that you wish, in the locations that function with the I-4 engine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  4. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Don't do it. Be wasting a lot of time.
     
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  5. Don B

    Don B Farmall Cub

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    Probably best to find a good cam shop to regrind yours in a profile your desire. I hear Delta Camshaft in Tacoma WA is good but I can't verify this based on personal use.

    Maybe the group knows which would be the preferred vendors. Also, it might be advantageous to have a group purchase if enough are willing.

    Don B
     
  6. patrick r

    patrick r Binder Driver

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  7. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    1- I would question the wisdom of installing a cam with a custom grind that has not been tested. I mean tested on a dyno, not a desktop dyno.

    2- I would also question whether it's money well spent on a four cylinder. Generally speaking, a performance oriented cam grind moves the peak torque and power to a higher rpm making the engine more "peaky." Thing is, a four wheel drive truck generally needs a generous low end and midrange. Plus, a four is not generously endowed with torque anyway and in a Scout it's moving a relatively heavy vehicle.

    3- Big bore four cylinders have inherent imbalance issues... exacerbated by high rpms. That's why many of the high revving big bore performance inline fours have balance shafts. So what you would be doing with a cam upgrade is moving the power band up into a higher rpm range and putting the engine more at risk. Sure, you can spend a lot of money making the engine more suitable for high rpm use. Or, you can moderate the cam profile to keep within an arbitrary limit but in either case you are spending a lot of money for not much gain.

    4- The stock cam can support higher rpm, or at least as high as might be practical, and some power and torque can be gain via other means. Basically a cam upgrade is about getting for air into the cylinder but a cam isn't the only means to that end. Freeing up the exhaust, a slightly larger/better carburetor, cylinder head work ... even a good multi-angle valve job, cleaning the worst of the boogers and casting irregularities out plus match porting... will increase airflow without moving the rpm range up higher by a lot.

    5- I learned the hard way that spending a lot of money on a four cylinder mounted in a heavy, non-aerodynamic vehicle is a quick way to empty your wallet for uninspiring results. The strongest running Scout four I've seen is Glancy's Scout II with Hamilton EFI. It pulls magnificently, moves out very well on the street, but it's smooth as glass and has unbelievable grunt.

    5- IMO, the old adage about "no replacement for displacement" applies in this case.
     
  8. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Well stated
     
  9. erkmar1961scout

    erkmar1961scout Farmall Cub

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    Thanks everyone. You have put the thought to rest. The firing order is the nail in the coffin! Turbo and a stock cam it shall be...
     
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  10. erkmar1961scout

    erkmar1961scout Farmall Cub

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    I finished the engine last month and thought I would share. I had Comp Cams custom grind bump stick. I started it on the stand. Love the whine. 39251B59-3ED1-4200-915F-709B43AFC1D0.jpeg
     
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  11. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Other's might like to hear it too.:whistling:
     
  12. winchested

    winchested High Wheeler

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    Yup useless without video lol.!
     
  13. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Lets hear it !???
     
  14. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Oh man! Makes my heart beat faster just looking at it! You should get that thing on a dyno before you install it! Is it going to be ready for Homecoming or Nats and will we be able to see it there? Here's hoping it's everything the original 4-152T wasn't ( : < ).

    What sort of profile did Comp built for you? Was it a grind they already had or???? I heard rumors that someone else had a 4-cylinder cam done there some years back and they often recycle those grinds if they work out. Of course the profile might have been there already for that guy as well. Was is done to enhance the turbocharged engine.

    BTW, you guys need to contact me. Your old emails don't work for me any more.
     
  15. mallen

    mallen High Wheeler

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    Of course, at that point, you could have skipped the electric fuel pump,and the grinding down of the unused cam lobes, and simply had the I-4 cam modified.
     
  16. mallen

    mallen High Wheeler

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    So what your telling us is, "There aint no replacement for displacement except forced induction!"
     
  17. erkmar1961scout

    erkmar1961scout Farmall Cub

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    Guys, This is my first turbo motor so I'm learning on a fast curve. Having built driven and built AA/FC Nostalgia Top Fuel motors for years I've learned to never give away the full receipt. But I will say: It is a 1969 196. The cam has more duration, a little more lift and a close center lobe to boost cylinder pressure. The turbo is a T3/T4. The thought is this turbo spools up easier than a T4 and builds boost sooner. This is ideal for the IH motor. The springs are big block Chrysler (go figure, Top Fuel Hemi guy). I used 0.030 hypereutectic pistons and chrome rings. The stock steel crank and rods are good for at least 5-8 psi (I set my wastegate at 6). I spent time on the rocker assemble as stock IH is prone to wear. I adapted a Holley 2300 350cfm to the stock intake as you can see in the picture. I modified the carbs internals so it will work with a blow through turbo. Since I increased the squeeze, I built the distributor a little bit better than stock, focused on initial and total spark advance, plus added a break less unit to the distributor. I will also include an MSD 6 to the mix. The reason for a beefy ignition is as the atmosphere gets dense in the cylinder with blowers and turbos, it takes more spark to cross the spark plug gap. The plan is to run 93 premium and never exceed 4k rpms. I was amazed how smooth it idled (a bit of lope) but 650 rpms on a new motor was surprising. At 10 BTDC timing, it rapped up quick. Maybe I need to add a little Nitro (Ha)!
    If someone can help me attach a video clip, I'm happy to do so. As far as what I plan to do with it. Jim might kill me but don't be shocked if it finds it way in my 1961 half cab before the reunion.
     
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  18. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

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    Sure would like to hear it run. Can’t wait to see pics of it installed!
     
  19. erkmar1961scout

    erkmar1961scout Farmall Cub

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  20. Mark Pietz

    Mark Pietz High Wheeler

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