Truck has trouble starting after driving for a while.

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by TheCrazyFarmer, Jun 19, 2019.


  1. patrick r

    patrick r Binder Driver

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    The wobble when fully tight would indicate that the tube is the wrong size for the nut and or the nut is too short to compress the flare before it bottoms out.


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  2. TheCrazyFarmer

    TheCrazyFarmer Binder Driver

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    Hmmm.... That new hose is the same size as the old one, but the old one wobbled too so maybe the PO replaced it with the wrong size?

    Also, Is the flare supposed to touch the bottom when tightened down completely? If so, the nut is too short.
     
  3. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Can't help you. I've never seen anything like that metal fitting. I know it's supposed to be a factory piece, but it seems a little over-engineered for a vacuum junction.

    And the hoses are supposed to be a somewhat tight slip fit over their fittings. Vac hoses are by nature kind of self sealing, so they don't need clamps normally.

    Lower-case Patrick might be onto something with his assessment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
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  4. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Meant to add, if you can pull the hoses off their fittings really easily, like if they practically fall off, the hose is too big. But that kind of leak shouldn't cause too much issue, not as much as this engine seems to be having. for example, if I were to unplug one of my vacuum hoses on my 345 it'd still idle, just a little faster I guess. (To be honest, it's been a while since I've run this experiment.)
     
  5. mallen

    mallen High Wheeler

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    This is good,we have found some problems. Unscrew the fitting , and post pictures of the nut, the tube and the bottom of the hole it goes in. And also a good pic of exactly where that is,
     
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  6. TheCrazyFarmer

    TheCrazyFarmer Binder Driver

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    I got some pictures.

    I couldn't get the picture of down the hole because its dark right now, but I'll take one tomorrow.

    Sorry about the bad quality on some of the photos.

    Here's the nut.

    DSC00192.JPG

    Here's the line in the nut.

    DSC00224.JPG DSC00229.JPG

    Here's where the line goes.

    InkedDSC00218_LI.jpg
    Earlier today, I noticed that the nut seemed a little short, so I made this new nut out of a bleeder valve I had lying around. I cut off the ends, and then drilled it to the right diameter.

    I might try the longer nut tomorrow. the threads seem a little loose, but it works with pipe thread tape. It touches the bottom of the hole when tight, I feel like that would block the line, but what do I know?

    DSC00202.JPG DSC00203.JPG
     
  7. mallen

    mallen High Wheeler

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    T
    Thats a standard flare nut, typically used on medium and high pressure lines, like brake lines,fuel lines, or transmission cooler lines.The hole should have a conical taper that mates with the flared end of the line. Without that seat, there is no way such a line can seal properly. You should not need a nut that long to work if the hole is really male flare. Where does that line go to and from?

    Edit: looking closer at the pictures, that looks makeshift to me. A flared line, going into a elbow, with a hose barb, then into a hose. Why not put a barb directly on the carb? Probably because he did not have one that would fit the hole.

    Edit:FYI that looks to be a 3/16 sae 45 degeee double flare. Most likely a piece of brake line.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  8. TheCrazyFarmer

    TheCrazyFarmer Binder Driver

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    The small line goes from the distributor to the intake manifold, the big red one goes from the block to the intake. I have no lines going to the carb.

    It is a brake line, that's all that O'reilly"s had.
     
  9. Gringo Gomez

    Gringo Gomez Farmall Cub

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    That piping looks factory to me but someone drilled a hole in that brass elbow and tried to use it for a vac advance source.
    IIRC - Originally that piping went from the PCV to the port at the base of the carb.
    There should be another nipple at the back of the intake for the vac advance can.
    That factory vac line routing looks silly anyway and then someone stuck their fingers in the pie.

    Edit: The port at the base of the carb is for the brake booster.
    The red hose (not factory) goes from the PCV to the plumbing fittings (factory) which go to a fitting in the intake manifold behind the carb.
    That intake manifold fitting had a spot for a flare nut line to go to the vac advance can.
    (This is all off the top of my head without my resources or bein' able to look at my truck.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  10. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    So you're thinking some previous owner drilled and tapped that hole in the side of the elbow?

    Other Patrick: Do you agree? Is your elbow piece a plain one-in, one-out fitting?

    If this is so, at this point I say TCF should just find a barbed hose fitting with the correct NPT thread size to go into that hole.... assuming the hole and thread's not something unusual. Either that or cap off the side hole and just splice the vac advance hose into another small vac line with a T-fitting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  11. Gringo Gomez

    Gringo Gomez Farmall Cub

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    Going back to your pics in post #328, I see the brake booster is vacced through the galvanized fitting in the manifold.
    If that’s not leaking, I would leave it alone for now.
    That hole in the brass elbow however, has no seat for the flared tube.
    You may be able to get a 1/8 NPT to Flare nut coupler to remedy that major leak.
    One of the sages here might have a better idea.
     
  12. Gringo Gomez

    Gringo Gomez Farmall Cub

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    Patrick Morris, I was still typing.
    Yes, someone drilled that hole.
    Your idea is better: NPT to hose barb.
     
  13. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Yeah, that's why we'd like to get a look inside that hole. No seat means this will never work as a seal of course.

    I already wrote my suggestions as a workaround above in my last post.
     
  14. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    LOL I think we do this a lot. Typing over each other. Your suggestion isn't bad. If he could find a flare fitting of the right size.
     
  15. Randall Barringer

    Randall Barringer Y-Block King

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    Nice work, guys. I think y´all are onto something with this.
     
  16. TheCrazyFarmer

    TheCrazyFarmer Binder Driver

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    I looked down the hole, and there is no seat whatsoever. At the bottom of the hole there's even a slight dish from when the guys drill bit finally broke through.

    Here's a pic.

    Its the best I could get.

    20190801_083406.jpg
     
  17. Gringo Gomez

    Gringo Gomez Farmall Cub

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  18. TheCrazyFarmer

    TheCrazyFarmer Binder Driver

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    The hose barb Idea sounds like an easy solution! I think I'll try that.

    Where the line connects to the distributor, there is a seat in the fitting but the RPM still changes if I spray it. Do you think I just need to tighten it better? Is there something I could seal it with?
     
  19. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Will never seal up ! That's why it's so loose
     
  20. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    If that’s just a plain brass elbow, go buy a new one at the hardware store. And tap that vacuum line from another hose.
     

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