Traveler 4bt build

Discussion in 'Southeast Binders Association' started by TheDon, Jun 7, 2009.


  1. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    Ok, here we go. No more fooling around....

    I've finally started some real action yesterday. I picked up a 4bt about 2 months ago and started putting things in motion. The 4bt was sourced for my C-series Travelette project but was shutdown to focus on the restoration of my A-120 over the next few years; the 4bt shifted over to this, and I couldn't be happier. Since my Traveler is in pretty good shape it won't be doing any significant wheeling. Since it's set up for automatic, I'll be going for a 4x4 46rh/47rh when I can find one for a reasonable price. The passenger side drop of the front axle will make for tricky exhaust routing, but I think it'll work out. If not, I'll fight that battle later.

    One of my objectives is to have nothing outwardly indicating that this is any different than any other Scout-- no cutting the hood, no stacks, nothing retarded... I'm excited that it's going to be a diesel, but I'm more proud to drive a Scout. The 4bt itself will be painted IH red.

    The operational objective is to have the best of all worlds: torque, towing capacity, mpg/range, reasonable highway comfort, etc. Most of its driving will be kicking around town, going out to the beach, and weekend camping trips to the mountains. Just a great all-around Scout. So basically it's going to be what a Scout already is but with better fuel economy.

    The 345/727/D20 setup got pulled yesterday, and the engine compartment will be cleaned and prepped in the coming weeks. My 4bt is supposed to already be in good shape, but there's a recommended diesel guy nearby who will be going through the motor to be sure. Right now the task is to thoroughly clean the engine compartment after 33 yrs of the IH factory oil leaks, then establish as much sound deadening/isolation as possible for the passengers.

    Where I am, and where I want to go:

    The truck has D44s front/rear with 3.54 gears, and the tires are 33-10.50 BFGs. That seems to put the 4bt in a great RPM range for all ranges of driving. Lift is a 4" Triangle with slightly longer-than-stock shackles and Procomp 9k shocks. I have the 33-gal fuel tank and a new Griffin aluminum radiator w/ integrated trans cooler.

    The Griffin is the style needed for a SV, so passenger side upper inlet, driver side lower outlet. I think the 4bt can be adapted to fit that, and I'm pretty confident the Griffin has enough cooling capacity for the 4bt. I will be going with an electric fan.

    The body bushings on the truck are the factory ones and have squashed over the years; I have a new set that will be installed in this effort. If the 4bt will still not fit, I'll only add enough body lift to squeeze it in, but I hope not to.

    The Traveler's A/C works great and we were able to move everything out of the way for engine removal without cracking the refrigerant; everything will be mounted up to the 4bt later.

    Question: The A/C heat exchanger in front of the radiator takes up a fair amount of room and I'm concerned about the front surface area recommended for the intercooler. Ted has a Perkins diesel in his truck and the intercooler is maybe 2 sqft? I realize I'll be able to find different shapes/sizes for the intercooler, but how small (or big) would you guys recommend? I'd like to find one that wide but not tall, that can fit below the A/C HX in front of the Griffin.

    I share my garage with a drag race guy, and he's going to help me with the intercooler, bracket fab, and other bits. Master Groenhof will be leading the charge on placing motor mounts and cross members when the time comes. While it's gutted, I'm going to clean up the steering with a lower Borgensen joint (I did the upper already) and do the bright lights kit. After the 4bt is up and running, the Traveler will get its axles cleaned up/gone through and get discs all around. At some point I'll cut down the liftgate and install a regular Scout tailgate. I also have a factory Warn bumper and rebuilt Warn 8274 that will be installed. Yeah, it's a bit poser but it looks cool and the winch has come in handy on Robby's Scout on more than one non-trail occasion lately.

    Feel free to offer critique and recommendations, but don't knock the choice for going with an automatic. That decision has been made. I'm open to suggestions and ideas, even if they're little ones. I'm trying to read other build threads to catch lessons learned but I still have a lot to learn.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009
  2. Cory Smith

    Cory Smith Farmall Cub

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    Glad to see you are getting started on it. I recommend replacing the rear main seal, installing a 3200 RPM governor spring, and taking care of the Killer Dowel Pin while the engine is out. The last 4bt I did I used a stock re-cored Scout II radiator with a crossover pipe on the lower radiator hose and it cools fine. These engines run very cool.

    I too like having more of a stealth look without the stacks, etc. However you will get alot of people pull up beside you at intersections and roll down the windows when they hear it running. I finally put a couple cummins emblems on mine to reduce the questions I get in parking lots.

    There is a another guy here local with a 4bt/700R4 setup in a Scout II. He kept the passenger side front axle and ran the exhaust outside the frame and out right in front of the rear tire. He complained of the exhaust resonating inside the Scout. Try and exit the exhaust out the back if possible.

    Have fun.:punk:
     
  3. gmbarker78

    gmbarker78 Farmall Cub

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    Sounds awesome Don, I think the new powerplant will work a lot better for you in the Scout. My Duramax was an auto and pulled like a champ, I think you'll be happy with the auto. You probally won't be pulling enough with it to even consider the obsticles to convert it to standard. Good Luck.
     
  4. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    Thanks for the support Cory, I've read and re-read your builds several times. I only wish you were closer to me so I could bribe you to help! You get more done in a long weekend that I'll get done in a good month.

    In reference to the 700r4 in the Scout you mention.... I don't know that truck or owner, but I read mixed reviews about the 700r4. From what I can tell, the 46rh was behind the 6bt, so it should be a direct bolt-up, and they are (supposedly) a little better behind a diesel. I don't know, 700r4's seem to be all over the place. I'll have to weigh the availability versus what I've read if a 46rh doesn't show up soon.
     
  5. Cory Smith

    Cory Smith Farmall Cub

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    I think the dodge auto will hold up better. It will be more expensive of course. The dodge flywheel housing, stater and flexplate will be easy to find. An automatic would be fun to have in one of those. The engine will stay in it's powerband a bit better and you wont lose your boost when you shift gears.
     
  6. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    I keep saying 46rh, but a 47rh would be great too if any one has either one laying around.... :whistling:
     
  7. Red_SC

    Red_SC Binder Driver

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  8. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    Thanks Jamie! That guy's not too far away either, might drop him a line. He's done a few things that I'm not anticipating (hydroboost, routing the exhaust over the bellhousing to the driver's side, etc) but it's good to see other ideas.

    Ironically, like that guy, I've been planning to paint the 4bt itself IH red and also with chrome/silver valve covers. I dig it.
     
  9. Red_SC

    Red_SC Binder Driver

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    I haven't met Mike in person, but they say he's a good guy, I'm sure he'd be glad to tell you any issues he ran into. He's a diesel nut, so he should have plenty of info on what your options are. It's gonna be a cool build when you're done.:cool2:


    eta: Check out the last post in Jeff's thread on engine cleaning.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
  10. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    I ordered up some sound-deadening paint (like Lizard Skin but 1/3 the price) today, but I don't imagine I'll be doing that until next weekend. There's 33 years of grease on the front axle and forward frame section that will keep me busy for a while on Saturday with degreaser and a pressure washer. Like Jeff, I'll conveniently forget my camera.... If the paint gets here in time for the weekend, maybe I'll do the first coat on Sunday. I'm going to do a couple of coats of that stuff (we'll see if it's any good) to mitigate the rattle and clankity-clankity of the 4bt. Later I'll pull the front seats and put a coat of that stuff on the inside too, but the priority is getting it up and running again.

    The diesel mechanic should be coming by to get the 4bt this week, doing his inspection, and at least doing what Cory recommends above. If he comes up with anything else, we'll tackle that later.
     
  11. justscoutin

    justscoutin Binder Driver

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    I just sold a 47RH two weeks ago! took it out of my big truck to put in a 5speed. My only recommendation on that is to MAKE SURE you get a tighter than stock converter. they are so loose its not funny.
    if you can run a left hand drop transfer case, it will make everything better. my exhuast is run up and over the top of my trans, but i'm running a th400, which seems to have more room than the dodge trans.
    try to find a reverse rotation d44 from a ford if you can, and cut it down to scout width.
    the radiator stuff is pretty easy. its not hard at all to cool these engines. I didn't have a rad in my scout so I used the one from the boxvan. it barely fits, but it works good. you can always get some muffler tubing bent to reroute your hoses where they need to go.
    the hydroboost is easy if you can get the one from a stepvan, take off the mounting plate, and put a flat one from a chevy truck on it. it pretty much bolts right in then. Just gotta get a 1980 model power steering box so the hoses match, or have one custom hose made.
     
  12. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    Hey Mike, thanks. But I'll ask the dumb newbie question-- why would I need hydroboost if I already have power brakes that work well and stop the truck nicely? Bummer about you just selling your 47rh. I can't find one of them nearby, and the ones far away are expensive.

    I'm going back and forth about the drivers side vs passenger side drop issue. My first option is to leave the Traveler axles alone and make the exhaust fit somehow. I know the axle is good, the disc brakes work well (and haven't been molested), it steers well...... How do the levels of effort compare? We'll see once the engine/trans is in and measurements can be taken.
     
  13. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    Ok, my education continues... I need hydroboost because the diesel will provide basically no vacuum, and the stock MC requires vacuum to operate. But the truck still needs brakes. Gotcha.

    A new Vanco Hydroboost setup costs $650 plus shipping. That's pretty spendy, but brakes aren't something to be trifled with.

    I have some reading to do, but Robby said the Chevy Astro vans had a hydroboost-style setup. A quick foray into online JY availability shows that a Astro MC can be had for $50-$75 typically, plus all new hoses and fittings, plus the minor mods to make it fit correctly.

    The 4bt already has a PS pump to which I can link the hydroboost setup, so the $650 question is this: Is it worth it to get the new setup and avoid the potential questions of a used setup, or are the used unit questions not that big of a deal?
     
  14. Jeremy Deitzer

    Jeremy Deitzer Farmall Cub

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    I am using a used Astro van unit from the junkyard. It was cheap enough and they always seem plentiful in the Pull-a-Part. I figure if I can keep replacing them or just buy their warranty for an extra couple dollars and just swap it out with another and save a few hundred dollars.

    Allthough I don't have mine working yet, I can't vouch for the reliabillity of using a used unit. I have had them on three trucks now and love the feel of hydroboost over the vacum booster. I think I even have it on my LR3, not sure but it feels like it! The only problem I have experienced is every vehicle that I had with it the steering box leaked or was always wet.
     
  15. stu simpson

    stu simpson High Wheeler

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    I was able to include the complete lower steering column, box, hydroboost and pump setups from the JY when I bought (seperately) Chevy 1984 30 D60F and 1984 GMC 3500 D60F setups. I figured it saved me a couple hundred each and everything was roughly matched. In each case I think it saved me on 1/2 the cost of the axle by finagling. IIRC I have about a grand into both axle/boost/column/box setups combined. Might look into grabbing a 1 ton Chevy or GMC on the cheap and doing it yourself.
     
  16. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    Moving right along....

    Turns out the JY just down the road from my shop has the Astro hydroboost setup for the taking, so I'll try to get that on Saturday. Now I just need to figure out how to install it.

    The diesel guy has the 4bt and it should be ready next week.

    I also think I got a 4x4 47rh lined up, Levi's gonna grab it for me since it's over in TN. It comes without a transfer case (bought separately before I contacted him), but that's ok since I don't even know for sure yet which side drop I'll go with.

    EDIT: the seller needs to keep the starter/bellhousing adapter, so I'm still hunting for that bit... Still, one step closer!

    :beer:
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
  17. Cory Smith

    Cory Smith Farmall Cub

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    If you don't want to do hydroboost you can run a vacuum pump/power steering pump assembly from a diesel dodge ram and keep your vacuum booster. Hydroboost would be an upgrade though.
     
  18. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    I thought about doing just that, but there doesn't seem to be another reason to add a vacuum pump. Might as well not clutter up the engine, and the hydroboost is better anyway. As long as I can figure out how to install the thing (like I said, I have reading to do), it's clearly the better route.
     
  19. justscoutin

    justscoutin Binder Driver

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    youll have a hard time trying to get a motor mount in with the dodge vacuum pump assembly on the motor. the 4bt is about too short to run it with a dodge trans, wich puts the starter on the same side.
    the astro van hydro works also, but the rod will have to be shortened 1" or a spacer made. the p30 van one plugs right in. either way, not a big deal.
     
  20. TheDon

    TheDon Binder Driver

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    The Traveler got pushed outside for a little cleaning. I followed the Easy Off Oven Cleaner method, then pressure washed. It did a pretty good job, but I'll scrub a little more before the time comes.

    I tried to swap out the body bushings, but I got boned on the hardware. Oh well, maybe next week.

    I swapped on a new lower Borgensen joint successfully, but the upper joint was frozen and couldn't be adjusted for the difference in length between the new Borgensen and the outgoing rag joint. The upper has been doused in PB Blaster and will be an easy adjustment (when it adjusts). Oh well, maybe next week.

    Levi was set to pick up the 47rh, but the seller called at the last minute to say something came up and he couldn't be around. Oh well, maybe next week.

    I got side-tracked with the Traveler and watching Robby tinker with the Green Monster and didn't go pull the hydro boost stuff from the JY. You guessed it--maybe next week.

    But still, a great day at the shop. Russ came out of hiding and helped out for several hours on Robby's starter and manifold issues. They got the Monster running! Nate stopped by for a bit, and Nick did too. Good times. :beer:

    [​IMG]
     

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