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Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by jeff campbell, Mar 22, 2020.
Ok gents just had to !
I think that's an Irma Harding approved product!!
At least you have some...
The ladies never did approve of Mr. Whipple squeezing it.
To much time on my hands here as well. Told to shelter in place, but I'm not in the high risk group for this virus. Older people are. When my dad was way younger than I am now, he road a boat up the Seine river and into Paris. Marched into the Ardennes in winter of 1944, one of the worst winter battles ever fought. America lost 19,000 in that one battle alone but we went on to win the war. My dad was there. Whenever I was afraid of anything I always remembered what dad did. Thinking there is not much to be afraid of now. Maybe the best thing to do would be to just lock the old folk up, the weak or compromised. For the rest of us who are able bodied, find an infected person and get the damn virus. Live or die, but build up enough herd immunity so the weak and old will survive, and we can get back to a normal America.
Yes, we've become way too soft. Just crossing the line myself as being at risk due to age and remember the WWII types but , we all get old, even you one day, so be careful what you wish for.... .... 60 is a lot closer and not as bad as we think when we're younger. Ya, we're not 30 anymore but wheelchairs have come a long way over the past decade or so...
Joking aside, I understand and mostly agree but in the end I still think we're a little mis- informed and unless numbers change by a lot, even worldwide, I think what we're doing now is probably a good thing but it's on the edge and maybe even crossing the line of being a bit too much . I think what we don't know maybe worse than what we do at this point and we're being played, especially when it seems a few things that are much more deadly for us are hardly mentioned. One death is always one too many with anything but the H1N1 virus comes to mind where media information overload , panic buying and shutdowns never occured and we had very little, if any panic when it hit 60million people in the US and I think that also killed 12,500 here and possibly 500,000 worldwide. Also considering that one average Influenza and pneumonia season kills 55,670 citizens , more than 1000 people each WEEK in 2017 and yet we still went about our lives without the daily sob stories, shutdowns and death counts being repeated over and over again. Looking up some other things, it seems about 39,000 people die in car crash's, another 800 die swimming, about 9000 people 65 and older die from falls and another 5000 of us die simply choking on food. We even lose 800 americans riding bicycles each year and Chicago remains open even though at least 1200 people a year are expected to be shot and 500 are expected to be murdered in that one city alone each year. All in all it seems there's about 150,000 unintentional/accidental deaths each year. All of us should just stay home and do absolutely nothing anyway I guess but then there's those stats on health, disease, death with the lack of activity.
It's a dangerous world with or without this virus.
Not sure causing panic as they did on this is all about our safety . I think there's more to it. Maybe dealing with every snow storm for 40 years now and the constant hype and predictions of disaster ending in panic buying and hoarding pretty much every time there's a prediction, which is hardly ever as bad as they claim, has tainted my opinion this time around. I don't know. Time will tell how all this pans out. IF we ever hit numbers anywhere near H1N1 , heck if we get to 10% of the vehicle or flu/ pneumonia deaths , they'll have everyone so scared and paranoid we'll be confining ourselves to our bedrooms , building bubbles around our homes and taking purel baths.
Not to go further into were we can't but based on what been done to stall help that's intended for the average man on the street and businesses leads me to believe this has been hyped for reasons beyond the obvious. Not sure what solar energy tax credits and new emission standards for airlines etc has to do with the effect the virus has had on the economy or the average citizens health , safety and well-being but whatever. To me, if this is as bad as they say, selfish agenda driven games like that would not happen at a time like this.
I’m with you Ron.
800 tights wearing ,lane hoggin, finger flippin, idiot bicyclists is NOT enough ! JK
Tell that to the 200,000 to 2,000,000 dead that will happen getting to that point. (As per the imperial college paper) The problem is, when you hit a certain point, the death toll goes through the ceiling because most of those people that would normally be hospitalized , and recover, now can't get the care they need. 1% (a conservative estimate of the death rate) of 60% of the population of the US is huge. It's nice to hear people saying how they personally are in a low risk group and willing to take the risk to keep the economy running. But the flip side of that is that they are themselves in a low risk group, and willing to put those that are elderly or immune compromised at massive risk so they can fare better economcaly. The reality is, we will have chaos and severe economic damage NOW to try to reign it in, or we will have severe economic damage in a few months when they do the exact same thing to try to control it when it's to late to mitigate the damage, AND a lot more people will die. It's not a choice of damaging the economy OR having a bunch of deaths. It's a choice of damaging the economy and saving lives, or damaging the economy and having a much higher death rate as well. That's why many states and foreign governments are taking drastic measures to get control even when they are in the initial stages. They have see what happened not only in Wuhan province but Italy and now NY. They know that this kind of shut down is coming, so they might as well get control of it early.
The idea that it's a some huge conspiracy is just plain absurd.
But if it IS some massive conspiracy, it's a truly remarkable one. Politicians from both parties in the United States are totally sold, as is just about every doctor on the planet and most every world governments. The UK was a hold out,but apperantly the Cartel of Evil Medical Doctors kidnapped Boris Johnson's dog or threatened his mother or have pictures of a transexual hooker caressing the bald scalp under his comb over and forced him to get on board or face utter personal ruin.
Mallen, not what I said or meant, so let me clarify. I only wonder, rather than all staying locked up, if it would not be better to separate us into cohorts . Just flat infect and quarantine the low risk cohort, in controlled fashion, until they recover. Verify infection and recovery by testing. You don't get to just go wandering around unless you are basically inoculated. High risk cohort is going to need to stay separated longer. The numbers might not actually work to get herd immunity. Basically this is going to happen to some extent anyway with the number of people who are going to get this, have it, or have already had it. We need to be able to test and clear people who have immunity. The big problem now is to many people are basically "typhoid marrys". No symptoms at all. That would not happen with what I suggested.
In the mean time I am thinking now might be the time to R&R the 345 sitting in the corner, at the very least I know it needs cam bearings.
That's right. I don't believe anyone thinks there's any kind of conspiracy but I wouldn't be suprised if some people would love to see this create a lot more chaos than it really needs to .
I think we have to trust the doctors and epidemiologists on it. It's not a simple problem and a lot of people out there have simple sounding solutions, but there are people whose job it is to study this stuff. I think taking an appendix out sounds pretty straight forward. Come on over, I've got a leather strap to bite down on, a bottle of rubbing alchohol ,a needle and thread and an exacto knife with six different shaped blades. I'm sure it will go fine. Regardless of what *I* think though, most people are not going to trust me to do that. They are going to want someone who went to medical school.and is licensed to practice medicine , because it's actually much more involved than a simplistic description makes it sound.
Actually, come to think of it, I don't think those surgeons with their fancy medical school educations really know all that much. I'm obviously so much smarter than they are. I'm going to do the surgery using a Dremel with a cutting wheel. That way the wound will be cauterized at the same time the incision is made and won't bleed all over the place. The only reason I can see why the "real" doctors don't do that is because they are all too stupid to think if it
The thing is there is a true center no matter how far you stretch something in one direction or the other but it's getting almost impossible to find today. Some of that is due to the rarity of common sense being tolerated anymore. If someone displays it in certain circles, something like the above always comes out in response. Even with highly educated, intellegent individuals, they need to have some common sense to be really good at what they do. In response , a $250.000 education doesn't always mean someone has learned what they paid for. And of coarse there's good one's and we need to listen to them. But there's more than a few quacks out there too .
Not sure what you mean.
There's been nothing but simple ways to deal with this. Unfortunatley there's been people apparently believing that going out and buying way too many items helps and by hoarding disinfecting products and paper items so others can't find or use them must help too. Of coarse going out and wearing masks, which are in short supply, when they've been asked not to unless infected must help as well and when you're done protecting yourself, you toss your dirty and possibly infected used wipes , masks and gloves on the ground outside the store that you just shopped at so some dumbass has to clean it up. All very helpful advise used by and taken from the highly educated . But more than a few from all walks of life have gone out, ignored common sense and made it complicated it by doing most if not all of the above, by panicing , overdoing it and now acting as if they get within 10 feet of a trash barrell, they'll likely die. This is mostly due to being bombarded with the never ending virus this and virus that and up to the minute death counts, brought to us by highly educated and experienced experts in their fields. The constant non stop 'test result by test result' isn't making anything or anyone any better but it has created a form of chaos by doing so.
Doubt too many are thinking there's a super easy fix as it stands right now. . For the most part what was suggested by Ron, is and has happened anyway . Not real sure how many would be willing to infect themselves with something we know so little about but on the other hand the flu vacine, which is pushed intensely by all the experts in the field, especially as we age, pretty much does that and people still die . So maybe Ron is on to something. Maybe not. Who knows right now. Simply tossing it aside is the highly educated mentality that will do more harm than good. More times than not there can be simple solutions to complicated problems. The only complicated part is finding it. Then many times what happens beyond that is getting experts to agree.
Basically we've been told to wash hands , keep a distance and if your sick, stay home. They've closed non- essential businesses and asked people to work from home if possible. Not very complicated either which is why I'm not sure what your point is. Is it that you believe that there can only be one solution....a huge complicated and chaotic resolution ?? Maybe it will be but that doesn't make every other suggestion a reason to make people who suggest something sound stupid.
I'd guess our so called local shut down is at about 60%, maybe more . It's pretty quiet. This immediate area is fairly safe , so far, and I understand each area is different that could peak at some point but , each area IS different and there is no doubt that there is an element out there that would like nothing better to have everyday people and many small businesses who are already strained by a slowdown, put into a huge national shutdown box and forced into difficulties for reasons beyond this virus. I believe there is a well known quote from not long ago about never wasting a good crisis and anyone beyond 30 years of age should know by now that there are some people who love to create problems today that they'll need to fix tomorrow.
Flue vaccines can either be a weakened virus or an inactivated virus. There are other kinds of modern vaccines that are not made from viruses are at all, but are just synthetically produced proteins that create an immune response.
The problem of course with deliberately infecting even low risk populations is that the mortality rate is not yet well understood. As suchi it would be difficult to determine what exactly IS a low risk demographic. But consider, in the United States, 40% of patients admitted to hospital with it are under 40. That seems to be different, for whatever reason than what's seen in other countries. (It could be that far more young people are infected, but the reason is not well understood). If the mortality rate of that demographic is 1% then infecting 1,000,000 people, would kill 10,000. Even if it has a lower death rate or that was considered acceptable even a small scale implementation of a few million would overwhelm out ability to care for those people not even taking into account seasonal flue and the existing spread of the Corina virus outside that population. That's the real risk with corona virus that we have. Hospitals are very good at keeping people people alive. But things are much worse when things get so full that they just have to send you home. Things are much less grim if your 20. Partially because of better overall health, but also because when Grandma, with a heart condition, and a 20 year old with no other health problems comes in, they both need the ventilator,and there's only one available, they choose the 20 year old and Grandma dies. Thinking of it that way, it becomes more obvious why the statistics skew so heavily in some places toward mortality of the elderly.
Never had any doubt about that....would guess that happens more than we would like to hear. Unless the 20 year old has no insurance and Grandma has connections and deep pockets, Grandma will have a tough row to hoe.
'That's when all hell broke loose': Coronavirus patients start to overwhelm US hospitals
By Michael Nedelman, CNN
(CNN)"We ended up getting our first positive patients -- and that's when all hell broke loose," said one New York City doctor.
The doctor, who spoke to CNN on condition of anonymity out of concern for his job, described a hospital that was woefully unprepared for an influx of Covid-19 patients that started roughly two weeks ago -- which has already stretched the hospital's resources thin and led to severely ill patients outnumbering ventilators.
"We don't have the machines, we don't have the beds," the doctor said.
"To think that we're in New York City and this is happening," he added. "It's like a third-world country type of scenario. It's mind-blowing."
At first, patients skewed toward the 70-plus age group, but in the past week or so there have been a number of patients younger than 50.
"I don't think they understand the severity of this disease," the doctor said of the younger patients.
"Two weeks ago, life was completely different."
Public health experts, including US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams, have warned the US could "become Italy," where doctors in hospitals filled with Covid-19 patients have been forced to ration care and choose who gets a ventilator.
But the US may already be seeing the beginnings of this in some areas, marking a new stage of the nation's outbreak.
"The reality is that what we're seeing right now in our emergency rooms is dire," said Dr. Craig Spencer, director of global health in emergency medicine at NewYork-Presbyterian/Columbia University Medical Center in New York City.
"Last week when I went to work, we talked about the one or two patients amongst the dozens of others that might have been a Covid or coronavirus patient," Spencer told CNN's Anderson Cooper Tuesday. "In my shift yesterday, nearly every single patient that I took care of was coronavirus, and many of them extremely severe. Many were put on breathing tubes. Many decompensated quite quickly.
"There is a very different air this week than there was last week."
Officials in New York state are pushing hospitals across the state to increase capacity. The state is home to more than 6% of the world's confirmed cases so far -- and roughly half of all US cases.
In New York City, plans are also underway to build emergency hospitals and backfill other hospitals with 1,000 beds in the Javits Center, according to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo. In addition, thousands of doctors and nurses, who are either retired or no longer see patients, have signed up as a "surge health care force," Cuomo said Wednesday.
There are simultaneous effort to procure ventilators for the most severe patients. According to Cuomo, New York has procured 7,000 ventilators in addition to 4,000 already on hand, and the White House said Tuesday that the state would receive two shipments of 2,000 machines this week from the national stockpile. But the state needs 30,000, Cuomo said.
The Strategic National Stockpile said Wednesday that it held approximately 16,660 ventilators before the coronavirus response, and ventilators have been deployed over the past few days.
"An outbreak, a pandemic like this could overwhelm any system in the world," warned Dr. Anthony Fauci, the United States' top infectious disease expert. Without enough ventilators, "that's when you're going to have to make some very tough decisions."
Cuomo also described the extreme measures hospitals are planning to take to increase their capacity for patients who need intensive care.
"We're going so far as to trying an experimental procedure where we split the ventilator," Cuomo said Tuesday. "We use one ventilator for two patients. It's difficult to perform, it's experimental, but at this point we have no alternative."
WOW. All i did was post a pic of genuine IHC tp an look what happened ! My bad....
You can't take all the blame, LOL. I just don't have any extra TP to decorate, had to dig into the camping supply. I was almost ready to go to the store when the panic began, but had to work and did not quite get ahead of the hoarders. Remember when people were using toilet paper rolls in oil fliters? Maybe we can tear our filters apart if things really get bad.