"Tip" Scout 800 build

Discussion in 'Binder Builds' started by walkersscout, May 1, 2016.


  1. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    I have had this scout for some time now. It belonged to my wife's grandad, who went by Tip, so that's what I'll call it for this build. image.jpeg
    It currently has a 196 with a 4 speed. After losing the rear main seal a few years ago I decided to rebuild it. After doing so last year I also put in a Scout Dana 300. It has a D27 and tapered 44 with 4.27s and Power loks front and rear.
    I purchased a set of SII axles with a trash lok in the rear and 3.54s. I was planning on changing the gears and running them with the 196.
    Last fall I ran up to the store in the Scout and on the freeway coming home it developed a sudden loud knock. After pulling the pan I found the number 2 cylinder scored. I haven't pulled the head to see exactly what happened yet. I am a bit disappointed, as I thought I was done with the motor.
    I have decided to swap to a 345 IH V-8. I went to Ronnies house yesterday and made a deal on a 345, T19 trans, and a SII power steering gear. After loading all that up, along with my welder and compressor that are in the bed, my springs were starting to squat! Those are some heavy motors! image.jpeg

    After getting it home, I made a plate for the intake manifold to lift the motor out image.jpeg

    I decided a wheeled stand was in order, so I could clean it up, change some gaskets, and test fire it before installing it. image.jpeg

    I will post pictures as it comes together. I have about 3-4 weeks of work that will fill up the shop before I can start, as well as another SBC For my '67 Chevy that should be ready at the machinists in a couple of weeks before I can roll the Scout in for the change. In the mean time I will drop off the clutch and power steering gear for rebuilding.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
  2. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    The clutch is ready for pick up at the clutch shop, the steering gear should be ready tomorrow. I ordered a master and slave cylinder to go to hydraulic clutch. I will run by Fifes Scout Werks in the next day or two and pick up a few more miscellaneous parts. I need to order some intake gaskets to swap on the 4 barrel manifold. I also need to put on some exhaust manifolds, then I should be able to fire it up.
     
  3. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    Picked up the clutch. image.jpeg

    Also blasted the manifolds, painted the intake, valley cover and valve covers.
    image.jpeg

    Biggest problem right now is that I have 33 1/2" between the wheel wells, and 35 1/2" from the alternator to the power steering pump. I need about an in on the alternator side and a couple inches on the power steering side. It looks like fabbing some new brackets is going to be the most expedient thing to do. image.jpeg
     
  4. Gary Billings

    Gary Billings Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    If you find an alternator bracket from an 800 and a p/s pump & bracket from a '70's pickup, you'll be fine. They both tuck up higher & closer to the engine so wheel well modifications aren't needed.

    -Gary
     
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  5. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    I have the alt bracket from my 800, but I want to bolt on my a/c compressor. I have been running that same bracket on my 196, but it is already tight, and tilting the motor straight makes it even tighter. I planned out my alt/compressor bracket, and by moving the alternator up a couple of inches it frees up a lt of space for adjustment. Just need to draw up the parts and burn them out.
    I picked up an offset pump pulley today. It is a two groove pulley, and I can just use the inner groove. Just need to plan out the bracket now.

    Other progress; I pulled the gold box distributor out and cleaned it up. I am in the middle of swapping parts to put a v8 cam on it and turn it into a points distributor. I borrowed a starter and bolted that on. Also scavenged a dipstick tube and dipstick. I started running the fuel line from the pump to the carb, but ran into a snag with the carb inlet fitting I had on the 1406 I had on my Chevy. Just need to change the banjo fitting to a -6 JIC. Valve covers are back on and screwed down.
    Looks like I am on track to fire it up on over the weekend.
     
  6. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    Also, I am going to end up swapping to SII axles that have 3.54 gears in them. They currently have a track Lok in the rear and open in the front. I have series 3 Detroit locker for a Dana 44 for the rear. Since I was planning on using the series 4 power Lok from my tapered 44 with 4.10 gears on my 196, I bought new side gears and clutches. Now that I am going to stay with 3 series gears I bought a series 3 power Lok case and will use my internals in that instead.
     
  7. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    This is my test run rig, sans the garden hose to the inlet.
    I pulled the transmission off, and installed the flywheel and clutch. Picked up a new throw out bearing and pilot bearing. I sand blasted the bell housing and painted it while it was off. I also pulled out the cross shaft. I cut the cobbled arm off, then turned the end down true and turned a 1/2" shoulder on the end. I will clean up the arm and bore a ½" hole in the end to fit over the shoulder and weld it on once I figure out where I am going to locate it.
    I pieced together a distributor out of a gold box distributor and another bad one, and preset the point gap. Primed the oil pump, and dropped the distributor in. I preset the ignition timing with an ohm meter.
    I turned on the water, connected a battery and jumped the solenoid. It took a couple tries, had to advance the timing a little more, then it fired up. Other than a leaky oil sender it seems to run good.
    I will finish up the brackets and painted it in the next week or two, then it will be ready to go in.
     

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  8. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    I drew up some brackets today. I was able to shave a few inches by relocating the PS pump.
    This is the tentative alternator bracket. I may remake that one. Even though my overall width is well within the wheel wells, from the center line to the passenger side I am still bumping. There is still an inch I can stuff it in closer, but even with that there is still not much room for adjustment.
    KIMG0427.jpg
    This is the pump bracket. I used a gm double pulley that is offset, and just trimmed the inner groove off in the lathe. KIMG0428.jpg
    Overall the width is getting down to slim enough. If I offset the engine and inch closer to the drivers side it solves the alternator issue, but the creates a problem where tthe foot well bumps into the engine bay. KIMG0431.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  9. Gary Billings

    Gary Billings Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    You can keep the engine centered up if you find (or make) something like the stock V8 alternator bracket as I had mentioned before. It incorporates an idler pulley in order to get the belt around the water tube and puts the alternator up higher & closer to the engine but still allows plenty of room for adjustment.

    Here's a pic for reference:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    Thanks Gary. The problem I have is that I need a spot for my A/C compressor too. The bracket I have mocked up gets a plate across the top for a sanden compressor. I tried moving the compressor to the bottom, but it is only slightly smaller in diameter, but also needs hose connections.
    I stopped by Ronnie's house this afternoon to look at his red bus, which is a V8 800. It has the higher alternator bracket, but no compressor. The solution that we tentatively came up with is to put an offset in the wheel well. I am going to have to do one on the drivers side for the power steering gear, so am just going to make a matching one for the passenger side. That will give me the extra room for alternator adjustment, I can keep my compressor on top and it doesn't get crazy tall.
    If I was not using A/C, then the swap would be a bit easier, as that bracket would work fine. The only real fab changes then would seem to be the core support, and the front crossmember.
    The plan for the moment is to roll it into the shop next weekend, pull the front end sheet metal, pull the engine and trans, and move the core support/crossmember and install the new steering gear. I will change the wheel wells during the week, then install the new motor the following weekend. Then it should be just a matter of connecting things, making exhaust, and installing a radiator. Piece of cake, right?
     
  11. Gary Billings

    Gary Billings Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Well, judging by your abilities with those p/s & alternator brackets you made, you shouldn't have any issues :)

    -Gary
     
  12. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    Just ordered the radiator. It is a 24" x19" aluminum cross flow. Need to find a new condenser as well.
     
  13. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    Okay that's on its way too, a 22" x 14" parallel flow condenser.
     
  14. Top Ramen

    Top Ramen Farmall Cub

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    You've got some skills. Nice build.
     
  15. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    I built a bracket to hold clutch slave , lined up the clutch arm and welded that on. I turned a ball end on a bolt to hold the cylinder in the groove and the tube on the bracket has a backing ring that keeps it from being pushed out the back. KIMG0434.jpg KIMG0433.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
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  16. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    I got the motor pulled today with the help of Ronnie front Sonora Desert Scouts. Also managed to get the core support out. I then had a distraction and had to go out and pick up a newer VW beetle and change the alternator. 7 hours to go get the parts before the parts house closed, unload the trailer and head back to town to get the car, back to the shop to change the alternator.I was hoping to have gotten the crossmember cut out as well as the offending sheet metal. Guess I will work on that tomorrow. KIMG0436.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  17. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    Out with the old, KIMG0437.jpg And back in with the old KIMG0438.jpg
    Minor problem relocating the core support. I moved it 3" back into the opening, then switched the sides the wings were on.
     
  18. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    Much better. I have an extra inch to make room for my condenser in front of the radiator. Still should be plenty of room for the motor.
    I was really hoping to mount it far enough back to avoid having to change my brand new drive shafts but it looks like I will have to stretch the rear shaft 3-4 inches. KIMG0441.jpg
    I also picked a spot for.my steering gear, drilled the frame and inserted tubes and welded them in. Unfortunately I had no bolts long enough to go through everything.
    Also, I and going to pull the core support back out and section it a couple inches to make more room for the steering gear. KIMG0442.jpg
     
  19. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    So my education on the V8 continues. The v8 frame is different from the 4 cylinder frame in that, not only is the front cross member different, but the body mounts are different. The reason for the body being shoved forward is so the engine can be shoved forward. The reason for that is so the oil pump is not directly above the front axle.
    In a V8 conversion, since I am not moving the body forward I either need to push the engine forward to occupy the space taken by the radiator, move the axle back to sit in the oil pan hump, or give it enough spring lift (as well as moving the bump stops down) to avoid collision between the front axle and the oil pump portion of the oil pan.
    Since I have an extra thick cooling section with the added condenser, I don't want to move it too far forward. I will probably wait to decide what to do until I have the engine in the bay. I may chop of a portion of the fire wall to help with clearance, but you have to cut a large portion to gain little clearance, so that is a last resort (or at least to do a clean job of it).
    I seem to be missing my LH tap to make a new tie rod, so I may have to use inserts and weld them in.
    I will not have time before rendezvous to make an exhaust system, so I may just put some turn downs on the exhaust stubs that are currently on the motor.
    My current job completion dates have moved back a few weeks, so I may roll it back into the shop on Thursday.
    Next step is, oddly, the winch bumper. Since the winch won't fit now due to the cross member change, I will need to move the bumper out a few inches. The reason this is important, is that there is an incline up to my shop and since I want it facing into the shop, it would be easiest to winch it up there.
    Still need to connect the steering, and will likely figure that out tomorrow evening.
     
  20. walkersscout

    walkersscout High Wheeler

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    Made the winch bumper today out of my channel Ironwood bumper. I will add a plate to tie it to the cross member at a later time. I capped both ends of a 6x6x¼ square tube, then hacked out a spot for the winch to go. 8x8 is much more convenient for this, but I didn't like the added overhang, nor how low it would sit. I also welded on my clevis type mounts for my town bar. I have only used the tow bar once or twice, but the mounts also make a handy point to pull from. I couldn't get the MIG nozzle on the inside of the clevis mount, so I will just stick weld it the next time I am using that machine.
     

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    Last edited: May 27, 2016

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