Timing retards instead of advance

Discussion in 'Injection Tech' started by kennuck, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. kennuck

    kennuck Farmall Cub

    Hi there, I've got a 304 AMC and have done the TBI upgrade using GM 305 v8 tbi parts including 7747 ecm. It has a DUI ignition with an 8 pin module wired in per the instructions on this site. I've read thru all the FAQs and instructions haven't been able to find my issue covered.

    The problem is it starts and runs fine but when you punch the throttle it will retard the timing instead of advancing it. I've double checked all the wiring and checked all wires for continuity. I've changed the 8 pin module, ecm, esc module, knock sensor and the problem persists. I'm running out of ideas, anyone ever experienced this and have any suggestions?
     
  2. EagleMark

    EagleMark Banned

    You put the distributor in backwards... :D

    Really I don't know but I would bet you have two wires crossed...
     
  3. kennuck

    kennuck Farmall Cub

    I wish it was that easy! Didn't remove the distributor from the engine. Checked all the wires and had my son double check as well. If you switch the wires from the pick up coil it runs like crap.
     
  4. EagleMark

    EagleMark Banned

    So it's not hooked up to the EFI? Does it still have vacuum and mechanacal advance? Did you buy a tach filter somewhere?

    EDIT: Do a search on the forums for DUI. I remember something about this happening before when DUI first made the IH distributor from Chevy parts and it spins opisite of IH. If you can't find anything give Jeff at IH Only a call, or Fleck at Back Country Binders. Something in my gray head says this happened before... they nare both IH parts dealers and have sold these.
     
  5. kennuck

    kennuck Farmall Cub

    No its all hooked up to the efi. Mechanical and vacuum advance is locked down. No tach filter, didn't read where one was needed. I read where guys using MSD needed tach filters, but this is a DUI. Its an AMC 304 btw.
     
  6. EagleMark

    EagleMark Banned

    Got me but I bet Bill knows why in his head without looking...
     
  7. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Sounds like it working.
    Have you looked at the actual timing table to see what it looks like?
     
  8. kennuck

    kennuck Farmall Cub

    I haven't looked at the timing table, not sure what your referring to? I've checked several vehicles with this vintage system and they all advance the timing when the throttle is punched. Could you please explain why you think its working properly?
     
  9. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    What's the BCC(code).
     
  10. larboc

    larboc Binder Driver

    does it run fine?
    is the timing retarding smoothly or does it jump back?
     
  11. EagleMark

    EagleMark Banned

    From memory I can not remeber what GM systems do when looking at the timing marks with a timing light. But I helped my kid set his timing tonight on a 1986 EFI toyota and when the throttle is punched it retards before it advances. I probably don't remeber GMs because when you set the timing the wire is disconected and you set to 0...
     
  12. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    I've been waiting for a response to post the actual table.
    It's not rocket science here.

    The timing at idle is higher then the timing under power.
    So as you rev the eng the timing retards from the point it is at at idle.

    See the table.
    At idle it is 16 degrees.
    as you hit the gas the timing will normally go diagonal from top left to bottom right(in tunercat).

    I ask for the code so I can show the table you have.
    As mentioned in the set up procedures you should have the stock timing table so you can rev the engine and verify the timing at different rpm and map settings.

    ASDU

    [​IMG]

    ARJT

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  13. kennuck

    kennuck Farmall Cub

    BCC code is AKTJ
    Timing does act much like shown in the table as you slowly bring the idle up. The problem is when the throttle is open quickly (punched) the timing jumps to 10 or more degrees ATD.
     
  14. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    1989 1500 with 5.0 auto.

    Here is the ASDM table that is also a 1989 C1500 auto.

    Are you running the ESC and knock sensor or at least have them disabled in the program.

    The timing may be retarded due to knock or false knock.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  15. kennuck

    kennuck Farmall Cub

    I'm running both an ESC and knock sensor, maybe I should disable them?
     
  16. EagleMark

    EagleMark Banned

    Maybe! But from what you have said above and what Bill has shown it sounds exactly correct!

    It is approxamatly what was happening on my sons yota as well...
     
  17. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Only if you can do it on the chip.
    Are you showing knock counts in winaldl.
     
  18. kennuck

    kennuck Farmall Cub

    I'm waiting for my ALDL interface cable. As soon as it comes in I'll get you some data.
     
  19. kennuck

    kennuck Farmall Cub

    I got some data logged today. The Jeep quit while logging data, no spark now, I'm checking it all over but here is the data I logged.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    It doesn't look like you followed the FAQ's for logging data.

    It also doesn't look like you performed the initial set up proceedures.

    Did you save the BLM table?


    You need to clear the fault codes before you log data.
    Perform the initial set up proceedures.
    Then log some more data after you get it running.

    Probably the ignition module. Is it mounted properly?
     

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