Timing Problems?392 or a 401?

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by jeepsnstuff, Dec 30, 2004.

  1. jeepsnstuff

    jeepsnstuff Farmall Cub

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    I put a new distributor in my V8 and now it is burning up (literally) some of the plugs. I am not sure of the right firing order, as I have been told several different things. The motor says it is a 392 according to the sticcker on the valvecover drivers side. It came out of a 44 pass. 1980 school bus and has the "allison" type auto tranny behind it. Any help? or where to look for help?
     
  2. Mike Huebner

    Mike Huebner Farmall Cub

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    I would say its probably a 404 cu.
     
  3. jeepsnstuff

    jeepsnstuff Farmall Cub

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    suggested firing order?
     
  4. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    here ya go-1,2,7,3,4,5,6,8..all 404's & 446's...1977-1984..jeff
     
  5. Mike Huebner

    Mike Huebner Farmall Cub

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    If its a 404 the firing order is 1,2,7,3,4,5,6,8 Number one is located on the passenger side of the engine 1,3,5,7 on the driver side 2,4,6,8 the engine rotates counter clockwise most were timed at 5 degrees before Number one on the distributor cap is located to the right of the distributor CLIP located toward the passenger side of the engine GOOD LUCK
     
  6. Jim Grammer

    Jim Grammer Editor at large Staff Member Moderator

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    Not sure how we got to MV(404/446) engines from your post :confused:

    It certainly could be a 392, they were made until '84 and were used with Allisons. Look for the ID pad on the passengers side front corner of the block:

    http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/faq.php?faq=ihcfaq_7.0#faq_ihcfaq_engine_id

    If there is no pad at all in this location, you may have a 404. If there's no pad and it has a 2bbl carburetor, you probably do have a 404 and the info already given applies. Look at the firing order that's cast into the top surface of the intake manifold. If it matches the other info posted you *definitely* have a 404/446 :) . The 392(SV) and 404/446(MV) are 2 different families of engine. The appearance is quite different, and it's readily apparent once you're familiar with them. I realize that might not help you in this case tho' ;)

    If it is 392, you'll find that the firing order reads 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2

    Be sure that #5 and 7 plug wires are well separated.

    Keep in mind that the drivers side bank is 1-3-5-7 front to rear(also cast on the intake), and the passenger bank is 2-4-6-8.

    The 392 times off of #8.

    What plugs are you running?
     
  7. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    also on the 404's the base where the dizzy sits is bigger area than the sv's.bout the size of yur hand,an the valve covers look alot different,an the motor is wider...jeff ;)
     
  8. jeepsnstuff

    jeepsnstuff Farmall Cub

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    well, I pretty much determined it IS a 392. Took out all of the plugs and determined the correct firing order by following the pistons order of compression stroke as I turned the motor by hand. I put in all new plugs. It seem to run really well. I drove it about 25 miles, seem to be running well. Shut it off, filled it with fuel, and then when I started it, IT would not run for &#it! It burned out the #5 plug(and I mean burned out, the center electrode and insulator is GONE). #1, #2, #4 seem to have been tapped, as the gap in the plug is 0-1 thousandth , but not SMashed. Put new plugs in again, even though it seems that 3 and 5 have no, or very little, compression. Now it will run , but poorly, ?!! Take the Temp Gun and shoot the exhaust and apparently it is only firing on #'s 2,4,6,and 7? Did the timing chain jump? Burn holes in pistons or valves? If the timing chain jumped wouldn't the compresion decrease equally on all 8 cylinders?
    thanks for all the help
    new to IH's so it is really appreciated
    I was hoping to be able to stay with IH powerplant , but am I better off to do like I did my Jeeps and switch to a Chevy Powerplant?
     
  9. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    see IH is alot better then chebby, they don't use a chain, they use gears, and unless the motor locks, the gears won't jump time.

    whtever you do don't go Chebby, that's just asking for trouble! :eek:

    BTW what is this 392 even in??? :confused:
     
  10. BigRigg

    BigRigg High Wheeler

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    well one thing I can tell you for sure, its not the timing chain...International engines dont have timing chains, they have gears. This is already one reason not to switch over to chevrolet.

    Edit: I see that I am slow to typing as someone has beaten me to the punch.
     
  11. WesV

    WesV Y-Block King

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    First of, if you find that the timing chain has jumped, then you need to reconsider your mechanicing skills :cool: :cool: ;) (IH motors don't use timing chains they use gears :D ) Anyway, you said that several of the plugs had the gap reduced from the normal gap to less then 1 thousandth in just a short running time makes me wonder if the heads are to close to the block (lack of right thickness head gasket), wrong crank/pistons/connecting rods. Something sounds fishy though...
     
  12. ScoutmanSV

    ScoutmanSV Y-Block King

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    1st of all Welcome to the BB! :cool:

    392's don't have timing chains > they have gears. No way they can 'slip'.

    What brand & # of plugs are you running? It sounds like you got the longer 6cyl plugs, to me, or ones not meant for an IH at all. Esp if they are hitting the pistons.

    You did time it off of #8 & not #1, correct? It is common for ppl new to IH to time off of #1 like most engines & that is not correct for these IH SV engines.

    Firing order is on the intake & the valve covers.

    Pics can be very helpful. Can you supply us with a pic of the engine, plugs & dist?

    Don't dispare, these are tough HD truck engines & it takes a lot to damage one. I doubt you holed a piston or burnt a valve unless you're running real lean under load.

    HTH,
     
  13. packleader

    packleader Farmall Cub

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    maybe as simple as the wrong plugs""""" take a look at the plugs you took out and compare them to the plugs you put in. are they longer?
     
  14. packleader

    packleader Farmall Cub

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    I just went out in the shop and looked at an old set of plugs for my 392 and if you use champions the number should be 14 rj12yc
     
  15. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    if i were u i'd use autolite 303 we use them in ALL our IH v-8's and they love em! gap to .30-.35 and your set!
     
  16. SCscoutguy

    SCscoutguy Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I believe that this has been discussed before that the Autolite 303's are not the right plug for the SV engines and infact they were correct for some older IH applications. I know that is what the parts clerk at the autoparts house computer says but if you do a search on "spark plugs" you might find the huge thread we had months ago saying not to use the 303's or Champions plugs. I was having good luck with the Bosch plugs until last week when the porcelin tip broke off one and fell into the motor I dont know what plugs I am going to run next. Semper Fi, John
     
  17. IH64Scout

    IH64Scout Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    well my 152 takes autolite 85's.

    but everyone i know w/ a IH runs 303 and they work the best, none of the other plugs last as long or lets them run as good
     
  18. ScoutmanSV

    ScoutmanSV Y-Block King

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    I run the Bosch platinums too (4236, IIRC) & have been for ~12yrs w/o mishap, but yours is not the 1st post where I've read the insulator broke & ended up in the engine. :(

    I think I'm going to contact Bosch & find out what their solution is. ;)

    I'll make a post when I get an answer from them.

    :D
     
  19. jeff campbell

    jeff campbell Lives in an IH Dealership

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    i wudn't use other than autolites!hell with champs..bosch,etc.jeff :D
     
  20. ScoutmanSV

    ScoutmanSV Y-Block King

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    Well I spoke to a tech @ Bosch, but (as usual) he wasn't in tune w/IH SV engines. He said he'd relay the message to their HD truck techs & have them get back to me > prolly next week.

    In the meantime I'm going to make a post asking those that have had the insulator problem to reply so we can find out how many & the circumstances behind the failures.

    :D
     

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