Throttle pedal travel and vehicle performance

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Rollercam, Oct 25, 2019.


  1. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Which one, the top left? Can't see the carb itself in that one. Only one of those pics shows the carb and it's not helpful at determining the WOT throttle position. (Is it truly WOT?) There are a a few wrong ways to hook up the throttle cable to the 7448's "universal" throttle lever. It'd be nice to confirm and scratch it off the list.

    I hate to say it, but well said. Often we try to help help out someone and ask a question or two that should require a simple "Yes" or "No" answer. Or possibly Yes or No with some explanation. But often the answer is never given, or it is not given not with a yes/no response but rather with some other string of words that the helpee thinks is an answer but it's completely not. And that can be maddening.

    For example, Rollercam, when asked, "So do the wheels roll when you take it out of gear on a slight slope and no brakes applied?" Don't respond with "The brakes seem fine." or "My friend thinks it's the wheel bearings." or some such. The answer's either yes, or no.

    EDIT: Rollercam, not trying to discourage you or sound like a d!ck. We like to help people and share the knowledge. But this is the frustrating aspect, when people don't give good feedback.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  2. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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    Scoutboy74,

    First off, I appreciate all of the help and advice. I am sorry for not getting answers to all of your questions in a timely manner. I have three kids under 10 and I travel extensively throughout much the southeast United States for my work with the US Poultry Industry. I am gone most of the week and then I spend most of the weekend with with my wife and kids. I would love to devote more time to the scout, but those other things come first.

    I am currently traveling and will try and get some answers to your questions as soon as possible.

    I know I had to put the scout in neutral and push it into a gas station after it died at a stoplight the other day. Myself and a middle aged woman stranger pushed it about 75 yards. It was not easy, but it was not impossibly hard either. I am assuming if it had a brake that was sticking, we would not have been able to push it. However, I will double check all of that when I can.

    I don’t ever want to make anyone upset or offend anyone in any way by posting on here. I know you guys are a lot smarter and more savvy about these vehicles than I am. I know these vehicles are unique and have their own idiosyncrasies. I am not the best mechanic or really even all that mechanically inclined, but I am trying to learn. I don’t have all the tools I need, I can’t weld, and I am not a good electrician, but I enjoy driving something different than everyone else. I will quit asking my questions if they are not appropriate. I just want to get this thing up and going and have it be something that I can throw the kids into and drive down the road. I have put a lot of thought into this vehicle and I finally found a couple of local guys with some of the skills that I don’t have to help me put it together. We are just trying to work out the bugs. No one around where I live has ever worked on a scout so no one is exactly sure of how they behave. They all just told me to get a Jeep, K5, or bronco, but I wanted something different. I hope to continue to find some support from the scout community.

    I started with a rough, rusted ‘78 with no top and here is what it looks like 3.5 years later.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  3. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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    Patrick,

    Sorry, I am using Tapatalk and the pictures are lined up one at a time vertically on my phone. I am not sure how your pictures are laid out, but it should be the first picture in the series.

    Here is a picture of the throttle linkage

    [​IMG]

    I have no idea if this is correct or not, but I would love to know how it is supposed to be with this carb so I can make it right.


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  4. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Thanks for the explanation, Rollercam. It helps to understand the situation. We're good. Like I mentioned earlier on, it is often difficult to diagnose these issues from afar. There are a lot of us here with a helping spirit who want to help, largely because we were the ones asking for help at some point and got it. But we have no choice but to rely on the person posting the initial questions to provide feedback, details and information. It's the only way this has a chance of working. But, I appreciate your real life situation and will ease up a bit on you going forward. Thanks for giving us an idea about what irons you have in the fire.
    Yeah, these rigs are heavy for their physical size and aren't much fun to push by hand, but if a brake or brakes were sticking, I doubt you and even the strongest little old lady helping you would have much luck overcoming it. So, we can probably rule that one out. Scout looks good, BTW.
     
  5. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    That's a great pic. Great angle anyway. Is the gas pedal floored there or not? Can't tell at the moment. Ironically, I'm looking at this using my laptop at the moment and can't zoom in on the components. I will look at it on my tablet or phone later.

    Cool looking Scout, BTW. What kind of paint did you use?
     
  6. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    The one thing I see and really don't like in this latest pic is the throttle return spring being anchored straight down. It should be hooked to a solid point directly ahead of where it is connected to the throttle linkage. That configuration could be causing excessive resistance to applied throttle.
     
  7. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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    That picture was taken with the throttle in its resting state.

    Perhaps someone with a properly functioning vehicle with a 2300 carb and an auto transmission could post a picture of their throttle linkage and throttle return spring location.


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  8. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Is that return spring even fastened to anything on the engine, or is it just dangling? Tough for me to tell. I keep debating with myself over which it is. Can you post another pic showing a little more towards the front of the engine on that side?
     
  9. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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    If I recall correctly, It is attached to the engine.

    I will be happy to post another picture. It is just going to have to wait a couple of days until I get home.

    Also, I forgot to answer the question above about paint. I used tintable raptor liner inside and out. It was tinted with the Dodge Destroyer Gray color used on the chargers and challengers.


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  10. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Understood. If it is attached to the engine, unhook it and then see if your throttle isn't suddenly more cooperative with the spring just hanging. I'd be careful about driving it without the return spring properly attached. That's a safety thing. There ought to be something directly ahead of and nearly level with the throttle linkage that you could hook that spring to. If the spring is too short to reach, then you need a longer one. The optimal M.O. for return springs is a smaller diameter spring inside a larger diameter one. Straight from the Department of Redundancy Department. That way if one fails, you're still good. The springs should be just on the verge of tension, without stretching when the throttle is fully closed.
     
  11. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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  12. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Yeah, that would work if the threads are right.
     
  13. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Actually that return spring is connected in the factory way. It's how mine is connected. There's a tab of metal coming off one of the intake bolts right there. Hard to see but I can see it because I know what to look for. The tab is stamped "V 345" and has a small hole drilled in one corner. My 2210's spring was hooked that way when I bought my Scout. And it seems to work very well with my 2300, though I would not/did not hook it to the throttle arm in the way shown in the pic. I drilled a little hole in that tab that come off at 90 degrees and hooked my spring in there, so there is no interference with any other components. Plus mechanically, it provides better leverage/advantage. I wouldn't worry about the difficulty. That little spring is no match for a man's leg muscles.

    I was able to zoom in on that pic. Looks like the throttle is in its relaxed/idle position. But it also looks like the cable is attached fine. Main thing there is to have a short radius on that 'arc', and have it mounted a little forward on the arm---looks to have both those characteristics. The idea is to get as much rotation as possible at the arm for the 1 to 1.5 inch or so of cable travel you'll have. Then there's the cable housing mount itself. That needs to be set so the cable isn't too slack. If you have to move the foot pedal an inch before the throttle starts to turn, that's not good.

    You should still verify the range of motion anyway, just to make sure nothing's wrong. Like overly thick carpet and padding ahead of the pedal. That's another travel limiter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  14. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

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    The throttle return spring on my 73 Travelall was hooked in the same manner as rollercams. It didn’t work that well so I addd a spring going fwd to a homemade mount attached at the thermostat housing bolt.
    456DC273-EC62-4430-82F3-8366EA48CE53.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  15. scoutboy74

    scoutboy74 Lives in an IH Dealership

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    It just seems completely counterintuitive to me that the straight down orientation would work right. The geometry of it seems whacked to me. Maybe I'm crazy.
     
  16. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    It does everything the spring needs to do though. Mounted at about 10 o’clock there. And it doesn’t need to do that much anyway. It’s just an assister spring. It just needs not to break or catch on anything. Not enough pulling force for you? Use a stronger spring.

    Here how mine looks. Btw that’s an inner-outer double spring like you mentioned.

    73DD202E-91A0-4D18-8237-6AA3404BE80C.png
     
  17. RinTX

    RinTX High Wheeler

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    On mine with just the vertical spring set up I found that it was possible to have the throttle stick at Wide open. Imagine pumping the gas to start. It sticks. Unless you really are paying attention- you don’t notice. It starts and off to the races it goes trying to destroy your engine.
    After a few instances of just that happening - I engineered the spring in the picture I showed.
     
  18. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    Yeah, having the spring/lever go "over center" could certainly be a problem. Then what happens is something like when a shackle flips. The spring starts pulling toward "opening". Yikes. That's where placement on the throttle arm is important when doing a custom setup like the aftermarket Holleys. Your carb looks like an older design (the float bowl)? Is it the stock carb with the spring connected in the stock manner? But I guess a custom spring mount coming off the Tstat housing bolt couldn't be anything but helpful.

    I don't think mine can go over-center like that at WOT, with the spring attached at that arm protruding off the front of the throttle piece. It wasn't a problem when I adjusted my throttle.
     
  19. Patrick Morris

    Patrick Morris Lives in an IH Dealership

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    I thought of this though, for the return spring mount anyway. If you moved that tab one bolt forward, and drilled the same kind of hole I have in my throttle arm (yellow circle), that would give it all a better 'pull' angle for sure. Just something to think about.

    Carb_return_spring.png
     
  20. Rollercam

    Rollercam Farmall Cub

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    Thanks for thoughts and ideas. I will definitely look at getting better return spring placement and leverage when I get a chance.


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