The Quest begins...

Discussion in 'Injection Tech' started by Caver Dave, Jan 30, 2009.


  1. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Well, we checked them again this AM... no change. However, I believe the suggested voltages are with the engine up to operating temp and mine was stone cold. I'll warm it up this week and check them again...

    Also, the grounds A11 & D2 were checked to battery POSITIVE... I keep forgetting the "sleep before posting" rule! :D
     
  2. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Despite being a crispy critter from the weekend, I drug the laptop home to test my ALDL cable. Took a bit to sort out the COM port settings under Vista. Ended up setting the local port (COM1) to COM3 address and choosing COM3 in WinALDL. Once that was done, everything started chatting! VERY surreal to have a laptop connected & sitting in the passenger seat of a 37 year old vehicle! :wacko:

    Had to block the radiator *completely* off to get it over 190* to see if it'd go into closed loop (which it did). So, will I need a 190* thermostat to replace the stock 180*??

    It was way too cold & dark for a test drive with no top, doors, windshield or heater! Had to settle for watching the dashboard & tables for 10 minutes. It's supposed to warm up tomorrow, but will likely be the weekend before I can do any serious logging.

    Still working on how to get the chip work done...
    a) Bud with Autoprom (would need to purchase/mod a couple EEPROMs for this route)
    b) Another bud with old school burner/eraser
    c) Buy my own rig
    d) Stock up on padded shipping envelopes & stamps

    :cornfused:
     
  3. R290

    R290 High Wheeler

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    I went the route of modifying ECM to take the newer chips and burner. Bill created an easy to follow step by step with pictures for those of us that like to read a 1000 words a minute :D.

    I bought a couple extra sockets as they were cheap, for that "spare" ECM

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Closed loop is normally set to 35°C so there is no need to get to 180 or 190 for closed loop.
    The O2 sensor temp is what normally takes the longest.
    If you run headers and put a 1 wire O2 in the collector, it may never heat up at idle.
    That's where a 3/4 wire comes into play. Faster closed loop.

    180 thermostat is fine as long as you don't have a big bypass and the engine doesn't get to 180°.

    Cheapest route for chips is probably the burn 1 and then just do the 2732 to sf512 conversion in the FAQ.

    About $90 complete.
     
  5. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    My O2 is 4"-5" below the donut of the stock AMC castiron manifold. I noticed that it would NOT go into closed loop until the CTS registered >189* and dropped back out <190* into "idle/cold" even though it was running 1200rpm.

    To make sure I'm following correctly, you're saying that it CAN go into closed loop at as little as 95* depending on whether or not the O2 sensor is fully "warmed"? I assumed the jump to closed loop was attributed solely to engine temp...


    I've actually restricted the bypass (old socket in the bypass hose) and normally, it will run 185*-up :eek: when on the trail.

    On a completed unrelated note, I found it very entertaining that the TB & adapter were VERY cold & "sweating"! I understand the convection(?) cooling of the fuel & air rushing down the venturis... just highly surprised to see it happening on my antique!
     
  6. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    There are several factors that have to be met to go into and remain in closed loop.
    engine temp and O2 temp along with a min time after startup.
    about 1 min cold and 30 sec when warm.
    The O2 must hit 600mv before the ECM will consider it reliable for closed loop operation.
    You can watch this on the sensor page as well.

    If you are running the ASDU then the temp for closed loop is not 190.
     

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  7. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    What program is this screen shot from?

    I made some more progress the past 2 evenings:

    Due to the geometry of the new TB & adapter in relation to the throttle bracket, I was kinda hamstrung... couldn't simply space it up (interference from the fuel supply line) and cutting it off to extend was gonna be a PITA because of a stamped bead close to the square cable hole. Ended up tracing & cutting duplicate parts (vertical plate was extended 2") and welded it together after test fitting to make sure it would clear the air cleaner. Found a slug leftover (scrap) from fishmouthing some 1.75" DOM that was used to gusset the bracket... turned out pretty dang nice, even by my standards!

    Throttle bracket
    [​IMG]

    Bend in fuel line is TIGHT!
    [​IMG]

    Last night, I got that installed and turned towards covering (most) of the under-hood harness wiring... very tight space to work in, but it's done. Buttoned up everything else under-hood like the air cleaner, MAP & PCV lines, etc. I *might* be able to secure a few "low-hanging" wires (O2 & knock sens.) to keep them off the manifolds and the fuel lines (currently draped down the PS frame rail) tonight... maybe even start bundling the under-dash portion of the harness. I ordered up a new starter ("old faithful" died in a large mudhole last summer during a moment of stupidity) and exhaust donuts (now that the air cleaner is on & can't hear the injectors pulsing, the exhausts leaking at the manifolds are evident!) that need to go in too.

    Still needs a little taping
    [​IMG]

    Front
    [​IMG]

    DS
    [​IMG]

    PS
    [​IMG]

    Clearance between air cleaner & TPS/MAP/ESC
    [​IMG]

    Aaron871 burned me a "new" chip (ASDU minus EGR function), so hopefully will have the punch list (needed before test drive) complete and can catch a semi-warm day for datalogging. It was very rich last night when I fired it up (to insure the bundling/looming didn't cause any harness related issues), so the tune will likely need tweaking!



    Unfortunately, I'll likely loose Friday evening doing a phpBB2>phpBB3 upgrade on the JCCA forums and Sunday to some tube orders...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  8. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    If you have someone that can burn chips then I would look at the FAQ for the basic chip adjustments.
    There's a few tweaks that can be made that help with the basic functions.

    None of your post make any sense without pics. :sailor:

    The screen shot is from tunercat.
     
  9. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Despite outward appearances ;), he's fairly knowledgeable when it comes to tweaking the bins based on BLMs. While we could have started with a 305 bin, we decided to start with the ASDU (your recommendation for the 345, even though I'm 46CI< than the 350... because it appears to run SO dang well as is!) and go from there.

    I realized this was breaking "protocol" last night when I finished up and was simply too tired to drag the camera back out to the garage! I'll catch back up this evening! [​IMG]

    Cool... I didn't have it downloaded the other evening when I was testing the ALDL cable/connection, but have it (along with TunerPRO) now.
     
  10. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Previous post updated with picture goodness.

    Bill, hope you found the writeup I did on the JCCA forums satisfactory?
    I truely appreciate everyones assistance so far! :beer:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Well, the forum conversion was at a halt, so... I got the reman starter in today. Just in time, as the gear was really boogered and would eventually take it's toll on the ring gear of the flexplate. Also, managed to install the new exhaust donuts and find the source of a long term oil leak.

    The "new" ASDU chip arrived from Aaron :beer:, so I decided to drop it in the '89 Sub ECM I'd been running on. I opened it to drop it in only to find it wasn't an ASDU chip, but a Z-Industries "performance" chip. Should be good for a few bucks on fleabay to the unknowing, but not before I send it to Aaron for a little reverse engineering :yes: Despite Bills excellent instructions, getting the chip out of the carrier is a royal PITA! Depending on how initial tuning efforts go, a ZIF socket may turn from a "nice to have" to "absolute necessity"!

    Anyways, I put the modified ASDU in to check for it for any issues (apparently postal shipping can be rough on them?). SES lit, fuel pump burped, and she fired right up! Appeared to idle a bit lower than the ZI chip though. I was so inspired, I took her out on the maiden TBI voyage... all the way around the block! Seems to run pretty good except for a little stumble/hesitation during hard accel... we'll see what the datalogs have to say about. The MUCH quieter single exhaust will take some getting used to... could barely hear the engine over the wind noise! :D

    Will keep you posted.
     
  12. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It's one of those things that once you figure it out, you wonder why it was ever hard in the first place.
    It really helps to remove the 2 crossbars on top to allow the sides to flex easier.
     
  13. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    I saw the crossbars missing in the EEPROM conversion pictures, but didn't because it wasn't WRITTEN there! :) Thought it may have been an earlier version of the carrier and they were added to combat an issue GM was seeing...

    The "springs" on the ends of the carrier ended up snapping off :( (attempting to relieve the tension with a strip if ABS), so that's the way I went. The main issue for me was lack of fingernails (to pull the sides) and lack of a non-destructive method to hold/clamp the carrier still will working. OTOH, I did get the chips swapped and all is well for now.
     
  14. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Well, I've almost hit the wall! The large majority of the physical is DONE, now on to the logical!

    As stated earlier, it was stupid to think the ASDU bin wouldn't be ugly rich :rolleyes: Aaron sent me out another for a 305 today (bin unknown), so once it arrives I'll begin logging. Appears the weather *might* cooperate for a couple long cruises on Friday PM & Saturday. Hopefully, this will begin the countdown towards finalizing the tune! :yes:

    Unfortunately, that will signal the beginning of a nasty round of steering & suspension mods... basically moving the axle back 1" (stock position), sourcing another drop pitman (current Tera-Low is 1" too short hole-to-hole) and lastly because the Toy mini-truck leafs are SO flexy, a set of custom sliders to replace the shackles.
     
  15. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Well I would like to say the 305 won't be rich but if you have the 350 injectors on the 304 then the 305 and the 350(ASDU) bin will both probably show rich.
    You may have just been better off making you adjustments to the ASDU file you already logged with.

    :sailor:
     
  16. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    I don't Bill, she appears to be running VERY rich on the ASDU. Will log some data with the 305 chip and see if it's any better.

    Here's tonight's 1 mile jaunt (have GOT to get the windshield back on! :hammer: )... pretty sure the logs will show overall richness, especially from idle up to 2400 RPM, There's a huge hesitation going to WOT off the line (which I *think* is over-fueling) and is generally gutless under load above 2400. I'm also a bit surprised there were ZERO knocks shown :confused:
     

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  17. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The fuel is rich but not bottomed out.
    Did you try to lower the pressure a couple pounds?
    Have you checked the pressure.
    I would set it about 10-11psi and see how it does.

    Looking at the log, as soon as you hit closed loop you got an ESC error so you won't log any knock.
    You need to test the knock system.
    try tapping on the block next to the sensor with a hammer or wrench and see if any knock counts appear in the data page.

    Also make sure your voltage checks are good.

    The TPS seemed pretty low at the end so you may want to recheck your initial setup.
     

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  18. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    What value would "bottomed out" give? Since there was nothing richer than 108, I assumed that was the lowest number it would show??
    Have not touched FP yet. Unfortunately, the Acctron FP gauge set I bought will require some bits to work... fitting w/ the male Schrader won't fit (due to the inlet ports angle & junk on the AMC block), so I'll need to plumb it a little further aft. As long as it's between the pump & TB, it should be OK regardless, right?

    That's really odd, it logged *several* knocks when logging prior to last night (many in the 400rpm range, which I assumed was during starting & <10 in the other ranges). I'll apply some "knocks" to see what happens and let you know the results.

    IIRC, there were a few voltages during the initial checks that were NOT up to snuff. We rang & ohm'd those wires to no avail. OTOH, the voltage check doc DOES say that the engine needs to be fully warmed and we were reading pre-run (stone cold). Will double check those on a warm engine and report back.

    Yeah, the throttle linkage was giving me some issues and appeared to be causing this. But when I brought it back in off the road, the idle was up over 1kRPM with the butterflies closed :cornfused:
     
  19. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You can plumb the gauge anywhere between the pump and the TB inlet.
    With my factory SS braided lines I put it just before them, right under the passengers door.
    108 is the bottom but when you logged several samples in each cell the avg was off the bottom. Which means you can probably lower the pressure a little and get it close untill you adjust a chip.
    If your just going to log data and burn a new chip then just check the pressure to make sure it's close to 13 and leave it.

    I always get a little starter noise knock at 400rpm and 100 map during start up.
    But your now getting an ESC fault so make sure everything is still good.
    You should have 9v from the ESC to the ECM.

    High idle can be from a couple different sources.
    Make sure you set everything per the initial setup procedures with the motor warm to make sure the IAC isn't going to 0 at warm idle.
     
  20. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Will check all those things and let you know what I find.

    Thanks again brother! :beer:
     

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