The Quest begins...

Discussion in 'Injection Tech' started by Caver Dave, Jan 30, 2009.


  1. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Alrighty...

    Just to insure I'm not misinterpreting things here...

    From WinALDL:

    "Knock Counts" is the number of times knocks were encountered, not the total number of knocks, correct?

    If so, it doesn't appear to match up with the table "Spark Counts" (contains the total number of knocks with 12 fields populated)
     
  2. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The total in the table will not match the total in sensors.
     
  3. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Roger that!

    Data run coming later today bro!
     
  4. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Keep an ear out for knock.
    You should be set on 0* base line or 15* at warm idle.
    Do NOT bump the timing up till you drive it.

    I also have the retard turned down to about 4*.
     
  5. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    I double checked the timing yesterday first thing and found I had advanced it to about 8* with the stock 305 bin. Earlier runs did sound like it was pinging, so brought it back to 0* (bypassed). Seemed to start and run much better during the limited running yesterday. I used the winch to pull several stumps out and it idled happily along. The short run around the block felt good, and I didn't hear any pinging (pretty sure I did get some at 8*, but again, listening for ping is still very hard!)

    Finished the few remaining (NON-TBI/Jeep) tasks yesterday and as I was connecting the laptop, the "flood" started... AGAIN! :censored:

    Today's my dad 75th B'day & I have some server maint. to perform later, so another wash. OTOH, I do need to install a new plug on the KS and install the 28pin ZIF in the "spare" ECM. I guess those are worthy "monsoon season" tasks? I also have some suspension/steering parts inbound to install, so maybe it'll dry up soon...
     
  6. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Have been a "slacker" this week! ;)

    Seems it stopped raining, but was a bit chilly for riding. Had something (2-5 things) going on every night this week (did manage to reload 300 9mm rounds to shoot on Memorial Day).

    I started off today with the plan to log some data, so replaced the KS plug and headed to top it off (no fuel gauge). Had the laptop logging and confirmed I was getting the usual knock counts at start-up & an occasional few running. After that, ran into the guy that planted the thought of doing TBI in my head. Lost a "couple" hours chatting it over. Got back home, put the hood back on (MUCH quieter now), cleaned up a few wires & trash that had found their way in between the seats. Of course by then, it had overcast and looked like a shower.

    Decided to bail on the logging... but started modding the spare ECM. Followed Bills tutorial from start to finish. Did have a few problem wicking solder from a few holes, but attribute that to poopy RS de-soldering wick with NO flux. I used a single fine copper wire to jumper pins 2, 1, 28, 27, & 26 (soldered at each pin) on the 28pin ZIF, then cut off the first 4 with flush cutting nippers. My son held the ZIF while I soldered them up... so far, so good. Downloaded the Flash N Burn software & FTDI drivers, plugged in the Burn2, and dropped on a 27SF512. As a computer guy, I found the interface boring pretty basic, but very intuitive & easy to follow. I checked the chip, erased it (for S&Gs), loaded the bin that Bill had sent some weeks and pulled the trigger. VERY fast burn! Verified the chip and dropped it in the new ZIF socketed ECM. Took a minute to get the OEM ECM unplugged and the "new" ECM in place. As stated before, my 2 years of HS electronics had left me over the past 30 years, so I was HIGHLY skeptical of my abilities and felt a bit like I was lighting a short fuse on a stick dynamite tucked into my skivies!

    Key to run gave the usual pumps burst & SES blink (was feeling better now!)... and then she fired right up like it was the first ECM/2732A chip!!! :clap:

    Now the plan is to log some tomorrow, on Monday when I meet several buds for some target shooting, and later drive her to the other side of town for a cookout with co-workers. Hopefully, that will lead to a couple tunes this week

    Gentlemen, my Thanks again for all the knowledge that is shared so freely here! I hope each of you have a wonderful holiday.

    A special Thank You to all the veterans! :beer:
     
  7. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sounds like a sucessful day.

    Yes a little flux on the wick really helps to draw the solder to it.

    Were you running the latest bin today?
    Did it run any better?
     
  8. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    My chest is pretty puffed over it! More glad (surprised :yes:) I didn't mess up the tiny traces on the PCB than anything


    That's the one place I deviated... mainly cause it was late enough in the day, nothing was open to get some flux. OTOH, I *did* have some flux for doing pipes, would that have worked?


    Yes, running your latest "caverdave305-3.bin". Didn't start off running it to log (mainly just to insure I was getting knock counts from the KS), BLM showed everything pretty close from idle to light-load (just off idle) where looks like it went lean?). Possibly a byproduct of resetting the timing to 0* (bypassed)? Anyway, looks like it'll be ready to tweak again with some better/longer/complete data. looking forward to being able to quickly burn a chip! (guesstimating less than 3 minutes total from removing the chip to firing it back up! :clap:)

    Anyway, here's the partial log captured. It's several cycles of turning off the Jeep, before laptop died (inverter shuts down after a minute when the engine isn't running = lappy PS is a HOG!), so didn't get the individual tables... :hammer:
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The copper pipe flux would work.

    Looking at the log you are going rich not lean.

    Also you still have some charging issues.
    Your alt is not self exciting.
    You have to rev it up to get it to start charging.
     
  10. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Sorry for the delay... my mother in law passed away on Monday, so we lit out across the fruited plain (20+ hours each way from NC to IA) Tuesday and will be heading back in the AM... Sure am gonna miss her! :(
     
  11. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    No worries dave.
    Sorry for your loss.
     
  12. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    OK guys, got a few seconds to post up the results of the first run with TBI!

    Rec'd Bills 3rd(?) tune on 6/9 which appeared to run good, but had zero time to do any data logging. The plan was to log a little data at the event site & go with it *OR* revert back to tune#1 (rich, but drivable since tune#2 was lean). I packed the burner, but also had the "spare" ECM/OEM chip with tune#1) Ended up getting mega busy with the event (those that have planned/worked an event know how that goes).

    Anyway, it started & ran good around the event site, so on the trailer it went for our visit to WindRocks...

    All I can say is WOW! Ran like a top.. Not 1 hiccup, sputter, flood, or cutoff the entire trip! The vid link below wasn't extremely steep (45*-ish), but was kinda bumpy & muddy... I can guarantee the 2100 would have choked out 5-10 times & would have taken several seconds between re-starts to clear the cylinders back out. The TBI didn't miss a lick despite a few good bounces & bumps!

    Caver Dave & Mossy at WindRocks

    Hopefully, I'll finish up a few more things and be able to get back on the tuning. My brother talked about swapping the TBI on his 258 several times, so it'll likely come to the top of our collective list also.

    Again, my sincere Thanks to Bill & everyone that has assisted to this point! :beer:
     
  13. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Looked good Dave.
    Now you understand it's a FI thing not a Jeep thing!!

    Now all your buddys will want it.
     
  14. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Well, maybe a FI Jeep thing? :D

    It drew a crowd at the JAM, which will likely equate to others beginning down the slippery slope! :yes:
     
  15. Ethan B

    Ethan B Farmall Cub

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    That video is AWESOME!!!

    The guy around 7:57 was way too close to you. I think if he wasn't there, you could have stayed on the throttle and made it up that section. Funny that 3 different people were trying to spot you at times.

    The motor sounds great. Funny that there is an oil pump @ the top! Do they have 85 octane available? :D
     
  16. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Despite a killer camera, my brother is too busy "watching" to keep the good stuff in the view finder! Missed me carrying the front tire at least twice! :yes:

    I was only listening & watching to guy in the brogans... I only let off because he said "GO", which sounded like "Whoa"... instead of his usual (unmistakable) "Come on with it!" :D


    Evidently, the 4 stroke engine (sounded like a LARGE single cylinder... Wisconsin, maybe Kohler) on the pump runs off the natural gas it's pumping. Supposedly will run 24/7 until they shut it down for oil changes/maintenance :wacko:
     
  17. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Back from the dead?

    About a year ago, I showed up on your collective doorsteps, ready to embark on a TBI swap for my '72 Commando AMC 304 V8... then life, liberty, & the pursuit of staying out of the po' house came along. Nothing bad, just VERY busy at work, dabbling in CNC, raising a batch of CornishXRocks (nastiest varmints on the planet), hunted deer for the first time (got my first deer), learning the muzzleloader ropes, & am helping a friend with more farm than both our careers allow time for,...
    but I'm BACK! :D

    Did manage a couple more trips this fall with the same results... she'll still fire on the first crank & won't shutoff until *I* turn the key! On one trip to the local wheeling hole (URE NF), there's a couple spots that ALWAYS gave me grief. Not so much traction, clearance, etc., but the steep angles would always "upset" the 2100... leaving me halfway up & sputtering. NOT this time! It just kept climbing & running until I was at the top! (a guy could get used that)

    I'm hoping to find some time as the weather warms (I'm about SICK of cold & snow, though did mange to "play" in the Jeep during the latest round) to get her dialed in a bit better... and no regrets if I don't! Thanks again Bill & everyone for your assistance! :beer:

    Also, I'm in the "almost beginning" stage of swapping my brothers 258 powered CJ7 from the "Super Sputter-matic" Carter to TBI (Bill was correct, *everybody* still running a carb wants help now, but I point them HERE!). Currently, we have 95% of the hard parts and I'm starting on a 1pc billet adapter, similar to the one I made for my V8. Just need to collect some info before the machining starts. Once the harness is pruned/preened, it'll be time to drag his junk to MY house for the real work. I'm hoping the knowledge gained from my install will allow this swap to progress a bit faster. Our (MY ;) ) plan is to add the ZIF socket to his ECM (still have my Moates Burn 2 for fast turn around on updating tunes) and a few other "niceties" that didn't find their way into my install (schrader off fuel line for faster/semi-permanent pressure testing, better layout of wiring/components, bling SES lamp... since we already have it :yes:, & whatever else comes into little pea heads between now & then).
     
  18. atlantascoutfan

    atlantascoutfan Binder Driver

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    I've been away for a while myself, other than the occasional peek at the forum. I saw your WindRocks video for the first time just now and all I have to say is wow, I am impressed! I still haven't converted either of my Scouts to TBI yet, but that footage is sure motivational -- as is your mention of Uwharrie, where I visited for the first time back in November and experienced many stalling problems. :rolleyes: :)

    Welcome back! :beer:
     
  19. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    I *think* the regular Injection Tech folks purposefully ;) keep the expectations very low, that way when you first experience the joy, you're just flat blown away! :D

    After reading here, I'm convinced these systems can be adapted to just about any engine with a little thought. Mine was done for the whopping sum of $300... a deal for any budget & a tiny price for the smiling on the trails! I'm literally running Bills 2nd tune (that he'd likely say is borderline "OK") and it's still AMAZING! :yes:

    Alan, next time you're planning to be in the neighborhood, give me a shout! Without reading back thru eleventy-dozen posts, my pappy was an employee at the largest IH dealership around, I learned to shift (couldn't see over the dash at age 4-ish) by engine "sound" in an old 800 halfcab, & think the first vehicle I ever "drove" (moved solo) was an old "Johnny Reb"... I'd love to come & hangout as there's still a soft spot for the Binders in me! Occasionally, we visit the "outlaws" the Atlanta metro area, so if nothing else I like to see your herd.
     
  20. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Farmall Cub

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    Quick update... TBI is *STILL* the bomb! Have only had time for a couple rides this year and suffered the only shutoff to date... hung the rear bumper climbing this "hill" and apparently the fuel all ran away from the pickup? (tank was full minus 15minutes) Backed it down to the base and she fired right up again :D

    [​IMG]


    Not to mention the occasional spike to 20V :eek:

    10 years after being freed from the scrap pile and impending swap (from a flexfan) to a Taurus e-fan, I know the 55amp SI ain't gonna cut it. Got schooled on the "betterness" of the Delco CS over the SI (better/cleaner rectification, etc). Since doing the TBI swap, Pull-A-Part opened a new yard 5 minutes away and I'm in love with the place! After buying 2 Taurus fans, 1 Lincoln fan, & a 130A "3G" alternator (1fan & alt for the Mustang & the other 2 fans for the Jeeps)... it was time to find an alt for the Moss. Since the 130A alt upgrade made such a drastic improvement on the Mustang, I decided to skip the CS133's and go straight for the CS144 140A models. All the FS cars (Cadillacs, Caprices, Roadmasters) had been robbed, but there were 15-20 Lumina APV's/Pontiac TranSports/Olds Silhouettes in the yard unmolested! Grabbed the cleanest/quietest one (tested good 15 times) and a bank of sealed GM relays (50A cooling fan relays w/ 12ga pigtails) & mounting bracket... felt almost criminal for $23! :D

    [​IMG]

    Not sure if I'll get around to installing it & fan this year, but won't be for lack of parts! Will likely wire the fans low side thru a single relay to run when key-on & the high side thru parallel relays via manual switch (locking out the low side relay). I've had the Mustang wired like this for 4-5 months with no issues... very simple and there's room for spare relays on the mounting bracket.

    Well, if I don't make it back here (LOT'S of hunting, parties, & relaxing to do this month) beforehand... Merry Christmas & Happy Year! :beer:
     

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