The EVOLUTION Project

Discussion in 'D and C Extreme' started by Damian Grihalva, Dec 30, 2006.


  1. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Well, got the inner fenders out and started mocking up the coil-over mounts. Boy those brake MC/Booster combo's are freaking huge and get in the way of everything ~ its almost like the scout wasn't designed with coil-overs in mind! :D :rolleyes:.

    No bother, looks like I can get the 14" travel shocks in there with about 6" of compression and 8" extention.

    I'll post pics when I start welding things. :cool:
     
  2. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    More pics ~

    This bling showed up 2-3 weeks ago, but the coil kits didn't show till this last week :shaking:
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    Decided to run the normal spacers. Real tight fit.
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    But plenty of movement in the shocks
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    Stepping back and taking a few shots.
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    The hoop itself is 1.75" DOM (.250" wall), sleeves are 3/16". There will be a third leg coming down out of 1.75" DOM (.120" wall) and a bar that connects the two hoops together (bolt in of course). I'm also going to put a gusset in there on the back leg going to the top of the frame.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2007
  3. Trukker

    Trukker Farmall Cub

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    A little off the subject but what camera do you use? Picture quality is really good.
    Enjoying this build very much, keep up the terrific work Damian. :)
     
  4. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Kodak EasyShare DCD33 ~ Decent camera, got it at Walmart. The shutter took a dump on me, as did the rear LCD screen, but it still takes pics! :cool:

    I have it on the lowest setting. I normally take two pictures, one with flash, one without, but now that the screen doesn't work, I just point and shoot. I've used Canon PowerShot's too, they last longer.
     
  5. reddevil1111

    reddevil1111 Farmall Cub

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    Minolta Diamage Z1 3.2 mgpix Is my camera. I bought it used off Ebay, spent 150.00 give or take and its lasted me almost 3years so far plus the PO. I like it a lot and would reccomend it to everyone! Email me for a photo or two that I've taken. And Big D? will you be working on Monday? I would like to road trip to ya for some stuff. Call me if so. Thanks! 303-xxx-xxxx
    I am still droolin over the build! I need to try a new hobby like bank robbin so I can have me some 4 link!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2007
  6. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Red,

    It was nice talking to you today, looks like we'll see you a little later this afternoon.

    On the subject of DigiCameras, I normally get about 4500 shots out of one before it starts falling apart ~ I've been particularly pleased with the Canons.
     
  7. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Well back to some build progress. Today sucked, lots of grinding, cutting, welding. Over-all a very smoky day. But, while I was in there, I took some pictures of something that some may deem usefull, and others will say "We already knew that" ~ here we go.

    As a public service, and one of the perks of reading my lame scout builds, here's a very fast and clean way to remove some stock bracketry. Behold, the stock shock and bump-stop mounts.
    [​IMG]

    These need to go on most SOA and coil/link suspensions. But how to do it fast....how to do it easy. Behold, a single cut with the cutting wheel (I used a Plasma :grinpimp:)
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    Doesn't look all that big of a change, but when you do this with a vise grip.
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    And then put it back to where it was...the stock weld snaps off clean.
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    One more time for the other side. bend....
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    And back.... SNAP!
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    Feel the burn?

    YES it works on the dump stops too (but you need to do it in two planes) Three minutes or less later,
    [​IMG]

    Like I said, some of you may have known to do that already, but if not, share with your freinds. SOAs aren't as hard/difficult if you know the easy ways to dismantle with less grinding. Just please, give credit where its do, point them to this thread, or mention where you got the tip.

    Thanks!
     
  8. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Anyway, grade school is over, lets get down to the gritty-gritty. I'd say nitty-gritty, but when you spend most of the day grinding, there's no 'nitty' about it. I won't tell you the color of the buggers coming out of my nose, but I'll let paint that picuture ;)

    Anyway, mounted the inner fender tube with my cage feet plate at each side.
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    Thats one side done. Here's the other.
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    For the record, remove the heater before taking out the inner fender. Its 4 bolts and can lay nicely on the engine. I use a plasma cutter so the inner fender is removed in 12"x12" squares ~ but still it makes it easier to get it out of the way.

    More later, the wifey is yelling.
     
  9. thedutchtouch

    thedutchtouch Farmall Cub

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    hey damian please check your PMs and get back to me thanks
     
  10. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    I do not have a PM from you, I'm PM'n you my cell.
     
  11. thedutchtouch

    thedutchtouch Farmall Cub

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    thanks for clearing it up. and now to the regularly scheduled thread (which makes me drool by the way)
     
  12. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Sorry for not posting these earlier. Here is the front shock towers, w/ coil-over shocks and axle mounts on. As a reminder, these are 14" travel SAWs with 400# springs to start off. The axle is slightly off-center in the rig, but that'll be fixed when I finish the track bar ~ I was waiting on new bushing sleeves and picked them up yesterday.

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    Although its a pretty straight forward install, all the peices are clean and plenty strong, I'm going to be cleaning up the over-all kit by using a different front link configuration on the actual kits. Although that system will be similar in many ways, it'll be better for street use, give the same strength and yeild a cleaner over-all look. Mainly, it'll allow me to mount to coil-overs closer to the axle allowing for shorter shock towers ~ which means better clearance with the brake booster and heater.

    If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2007
  13. Scott Sinner

    Scott Sinner High Wheeler

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    Looks greak Damian. Those shocks pretty much peg the coolometer :cool:
     
  14. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    Thanks Scott, this project is winding down in a big way and I can't wait to have it on the road. We were supposed to start wiring this last Saturday but we had a ice storm that kept everyone in doors.
     
  15. JOBIE

    JOBIE Farmall Cub

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    SICK :D :D :D

    Amazing what a talented man can do!!
     
  16. jasonzbtzl

    jasonzbtzl High Wheeler

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    Damian- any concerns about stress being put on the shock ends where it connects to the axle and the hoop attached to the frame? Let's say if the axle gets twisted front to back? That looks like it could be a week point, maybe I'm just looking at it weird, but that jumped out at me?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2009
  17. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    No worries at all about the axle mounts. Those are 5/16" tabs and the truss is firmly in place to take any hit.

    The only worry *could* be the shock hoops. Although I haven't said it yet, I'm planning a third leg to the top of the frame to eliminate any possible flex. I also bought enough flanges to build a removeable 'shock-tower brace' connecting both tower/sides together ~ not sure if I've got the room for that yet.

    However, the tabs on the top are 1/4" and I've seen and used not so beefy tabs on Rusty and various comp buggies. As far as the shock towers themselves, they are 1.75" x .250" wall DOM ~ which is extremely beefy stuff, way stronger than the stock frame. As well, I connected them to the side of the frame so that I could get a full weld all the way around. I also plated the frame where they attached with 8" long angle iron that also extends to cover the bottom of the frame ~ spreading the load out considerably. The front is the same but only 5" long. Fully welded ~ these mounts have 2.7 times the stock welded area of the stock suspension parts PER LOCATION, in two different planes, without the third leg. Combine that with the stock frame being a mere 1/8" thick and these being plated with 3/16" for a combine total of 5/16" thick frame wall at the points of mounting, and I think it'll hold up to abuse, and then some, even without the 3rd leg or side-to-side tie-together.

    Good eye though, I like your thinking.

    As far as the stress on the shock itself, as you can see, the shock is mounted in double-sheer. The only way for it to break is if one of the links (not probable) to break and allow the axle to twist causing the shock mounts to bind. I did test the mounts at the top and bottom to make sure there was enough play/movement in the shocks spherical ends ~ and as you can see from the pictures in an earlier post, the shocks can move as freely as they need to at any position, flexed or ride height.

    D

    EDIT: I talked with Jason on the phone today and he brought up that it wasn't the mounts he was concerned about, but the aluminum shock body. To this I said no, these are hardened bodies in the 6061 range and are machined from billet aluminum. They are built to take the heat and stress of desert racing and I've not seen one fail that didn't have external un-designed for forces put on it. For example, if a heim on a link were to break, the axle could then twist 180* and that has snapped a few coil-overs, but short of that type of failure, its next to impossible for these things to fail in that way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2007
  18. multiscout

    multiscout Farmall Cub

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    Very, very cool Damian, I love the blend of newly fab'd beefy metal and classic International styling!

    I think you might have mentioned ballpark figures for this mod or parts of the mod before but now that you have refined it do you have a better idea for costs? Are you going to offer the front and rear kits separately? How much body trimming do you expect will be needed in relation to increasing levels of body lifts that may already be done for a 35 or 37" tire?

    Just tossing out some Q's that popped into my head - sorry if you addressed these earlier in the thread..
     
  19. Damian Grihalva

    Damian Grihalva High Wheeler

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    No problem on the questions you brought up, and even if I addressed them before, I think a re-hash would be proper.

    Originally, I placed a value of about $7500 for this conversion retail ~ meaning after this is perfected and 100% if you were to bring me a scout for this conversion and wanted me to install it, the goal is $7500.

    However, now that I've all but completed the proto-type suspension, and have a build parts list and somewhat know what difficulties I'm faced with, I'm rehashing the numbers. I will not commit to or hint to anything right now as I need to finalize the kit, however I'm fairly certain it may be under that amount if the test systems go as planned.

    As a FYI ~ These kits are meant to give at least 6" of lift. The target for this conversion 6-10" of lift to fit 35-38" tires. They are engineered to run at no less than 33" tires and can be used, as seen in our buildups, for tires in excess of 40" easily (42" tires have been used personally). Tires up to 35" should not require fender trimming as long as the customer has the proper amount of lift ~ however, for those wanting to run less lift, you can ~ but fender trimming may be needed.

    In relation to fender trimming. Lets be honest folks, IH never intended for tires in excess of 33" to be put on scouts, anything bigger than that the tires may simply be too big for the wheel opening. It has been my experience that you can fit 35s on a scout without trimming (as long as you have proper lift), but realize that the tire size issue has less to do with what lift you have than it does what the scout was designed for in the first place.

    So when are these conversions actually going to hit the market. Well, as early as next month (if you're a product tester) but if you are an end user, early 2008. Here's the plan ~ in case your wondering.
    1. Part 1: Build the proto-type (as you are seeing here). This step serves several purposes:
      • Initial design test
      • This generates interest and shows people that it can be done. Even though I've built fully coil-sprung rigs in the past, and have had the plans for this suspension since 2000, most of the applications have been on off-road vehicles. My goal is to reiterate that this system is just as road friendly as anything else.
      • Provide me with an base. Parts and prices, how long it actually takes and a the rough idea of what installation will be like.
    2. Step 2: Refinement. This is were I refine the kit a touch and build 2-3 more conversions for people interested in being product testers. This affords the following:
      • Further/Final design refinement.
      • Finalize conversion cost and time
      • Gives me personal knowledge of things that may/could go wrong during installation for future customer support.
      • Final installation proceedure and building up of instructions
      • A limited number of product out on the road for customer reactions, feedback and publicity.
    3. Step 3: Conversion becomes available.

    That being said, there has been some interest from people wanting to take part in the Step 2. I'm actally gearing up for that now. Cost will be discussed on a individual basis ~ depending on what the 'product tester's' scout already has on it. These 'product testers' will be given a substantial discount for being product testers. I have established a cost cap that is compareable to my (and my competitions) SOA prices.

    This conversion will include CV driveshafts (front and back), 4-link rear w/ coils w/ higher end shocks in a LTSS mounting, linked front w/ coil-overs. Hysteer. Cost not included is 'torsion' sway bars (like the Anti-rock from Currie Ent).

    I will personally insure that all scouts used will be drivable, to my spec, after the work is performed. Interested parties can email me. As with any lifted or modified rig; Care, Caution and Responsibility for proper driving must be assumed by the owners. Although these systems have been proven to be safe at high speeds, it doesn't mean these are racers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2007
  20. multiscout

    multiscout Farmall Cub

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    Thanks for the response Damian,

    I was also wondering about axles. I see you are using a ford 9" for the rear and didn't catch if you kept the scout 44 up front or not - but do you think the scout 44's are worth keeping with 35" tires (moderate wheeling - not extreme)? If they're not strong enough in stock form would they be with new shafts and a full floating kit in the rear axle with detroit lockers?

    I know this gets more into personal preference and wheeling habits but I currently have a SOA with the stock 44's with 35" tires and am not sure how the axles are going to hold up. I would think they would hold up in a similar fashion whether I have a SOA or coil/link suspension but if I get serious about putting the coil/link setup in I'm concerned that I will also need to spend the $$ on axles also.

    Are you planning on sourcing the 9" axles as part of the package or would it be separate?

    And sort of related to axle life - what weight difference do you guess there is between the same scout II with SOA as the before picture and the after picture with the coil/link mod complete?

    As always Dude - thanks again
     

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