TBI install progress

Discussion in 'Injection Tech' started by JayKray, Aug 11, 2016.


  1. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    Well, I took a break from the install and concentrated on bodywork, paint, and getting the Scout registered and back on the road. Once I was comfortable that it was running properly, I dove back in last weekend. It's a 1980 Scout II with 345, 4 spd. The harness and TB donor was a 1989 k5 blazer with 5.7. Most of the other parts were purchased new. I used Hamilton's adapter plate, usb cable, and initial chip. I did have one issue with a knock sensor on the install as the first one I received off of amazon was straight thread instead of NPT. The price was too good to pass up, but I guess you get what you pay for. Other than that, the mechanical part of the install went pretty smoothly.
    Knock sensor.jpg
    TBI initial install.jpg
    I got the initial timing set and got it idling, although this took a little while as it was popping, backfiring, and not taking throttle. It is currently set at 1 degree ATDC now as the ignition module that I mounted to the distributor is hitting the water pump housing and not allowing me to go any further at this point. see pic. In the beginning it would not start or idle with the bypass connector plugged in, only when it was disconnected. The last thing I did last night was ground the third wire from the reluctor pickup in the distributor. I thought it would make a sufficient ground through the distributor housing, but I wanted to rule this out as a problem. This morning I tried it again before work and it idled fine with the connector plugged in and I was able to drive it up and down the driveway with just a little popping. I feel like the injectors may have just been gummed up from sitting for so long and that they are getting cleaned out every time I run because I really haven't done anything different (other than the one ground), but every time I start the truck it seems to run and react a little better. Does this make sense, anyone experience this before?
    Distributor and ignition module.jpg
    I did not see the IAC pintel that is described , so I pulled the IAC from the TB to verify that it was working. It fired the pintel right out of the housing when I jumped the ALDL connector, so it is certainly working. I put it back together and verified that I do get suction through the port during cold idle.
    I verified that the TPS is working smoothly and was able to set it to .7%. However, I could not get the warm idle to go below ~725. This was with the bypass unplugged. Now that it will run with the bypass connected, I will reset the IAC and TPS and go from there. Scout 7-20-16.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
  2. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    Correction! I had plugged in my bypass connection while the engine was idling. I only had 5 minutes last night and tried to start it again with the bypass connected and it wouldn't start. So it ONLY starts and runs with the bypass disconnected. I'm thinking my rotor to reluctor alignment is off. I'll try to reset that tonight. I'm pretty sure I had it set so the rotor was just past the plug terminal as Bill suggests, but maybe I had it too far past as I notice he says his image is "slightly exaggerated" in the conversion thread.
     
  3. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    OK, I got it. The distributor was never stabbed correctly and couldn't be with the way I mounted the ignition module, it would hit the water pump housing when attempting to get it aligned. I ended up drilling two new holes in my mount and offsetting it a bit. This allowed the distributor to twist enough to get it to TDC. I went through the rest of the setup procedure again and it runs great!
    I still have some wire cleanup to do and need to figure out a better air cleaner setup or give the rig a little body lift to clear the filter that I bought.
    ignition module offset.jpg distributor.jpg engine compartment.jpg
    I hope to get some datalogging in within the next few days.
     
  4. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,058
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Make sure your heat sink is at least 1/8 thick alum for proper heat transfer.
     
  5. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    Thanks Bill. It's a 3/16 thick chunk screwed to the 1/16 piece that is bent to match the side of the distributor. I also used conductive paste between both pieces.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
     
  6. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    [​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
     
  7. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    OK, so I had a great drive to work this morning. The scout is running great, very strong!
    The only thing I would like to improve is the throttle feel just off idle, it is pretty touchy and wants to jump off the line. I'm not sure if it is my throttle linkage or maybe my idle is set too low, or maybe it's a tuning thing.
    Attached are my log and blm.
     

    Attached Files:

    larry78 likes this.
  8. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    And here is most of the ride home from work.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,058
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Data looks pretty good.
    Did you make the regulator adjustable?
    The fueling is just a little lean and if the injectors were dirty they may be restricting the flow.
    You can run some injector cleaner for a couple tanks and see if it gets better or you can bump the pressure a little to compensate.
    TPS is just a little low once warmed up. I try to set it at .2%
     
  10. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    Thanks Bill. I did not touch the regulator. Should I?
    I did notice some pinging under unnecessarily heavy throttle on acceleration, not something I would normally do, I was just trying to fill out the BLM.
    I'll use some injector cleaner and adjust the tps and post some more logs in a few weeks. The throttle body and injectors probably sat for a quite a while and got limited use(they were off an old unregistered plow truck), so I wouldn't be surprised if they are clogged up.
     
  11. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,058
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    If you follow the directions for making the regulator adjustable then you can increase the pressure a little to compensate for the low flowing injectors.
    You can just run the injector cleaner for a while and see if the BLMs go down before adjusting the pressure.
    What name did you buy the parts with.
    I was trying to look up the file but now JayKray in my files.
     
  12. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    OK, I adjusted the TPS, might be a little high now, but it feels better off the line. I'm not sure where to see this in the logs?
    I also added some fuel injector cleaner, but haven't driven it much yet.
    Here is another run to work, doesn't look much different to my neophyte eyes.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,058
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    TPS is little high.
    Just connect the laptop and turn the key on.
    adjust to .2%
     
  14. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    OK, I've run about 30 gallons through with fuel injector cleaner (seafoam) added to the fuel, and the other day on the way home from a trip, all of a sudden the scout started idling really poorly. Almost sounds like it's missing, but still runs pretty well above idle. I just did another short run with the laptop hooked up and noticed that it looks like it is running much richer, probably too rich. SO, did something help clean out the injectors too much, or did something change in the fuel pressure regulator, or do I just have an electrical miss that is offsetting the BLM? Files are attached below.
     

    Attached Files:

    hunch98 likes this.
  15. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,058
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    It could be a combo of things.
    If you have any miss it will put unburned fuel in the exhaust and the O2 will read rich.
    I see some knock counts in your log. You may want to back the timing up a five degrees and see if it reduces. If not then it is false knock from mechanical noise like a lifter tick or headers.
     
  16. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    Yes, I have noticed knocking under heavy throttle, however I thought that was related to me running a bit on the lean side previously.
    I backed off the initial timing a couple degrees. I checked the egr valve and I could suck and blow through the vacuum port, so assume the diaphragm is not working? I ran it disconnected with the vacuum line to the tb plugged, but no change, so I connected it back up. I also was uncertain about one of the 90 degree rubber connections between the MAP sensor and the TB, so I replaced the original line with a straight section of rubber hose.
    I did another short run, idle is still bad, runs OK otherwise, but looks like it is still rich. Right when I was pulling into the garage the CEL came on and I am throwing code 33 and 42, MAP high and EST. The EST code could have been saved when I was resetting timing? One interesting note is when I was trying to adjust it, the timing mark would jump 20+ degrees when I got too far away from 0, when I got near the 5 degree ATDC mark and it jumped in that direction, the engine would die. I assume this was because it was jumping to an adjacent cylinder on the distributor cap, but I'm not sure. I put my drilled out cap on to recheck the reluctor ring setting. It seemed like it was a few degrees off, so I loosened my set screw and dialed it in a tiny bit.

    If there was any good news about tonight's run is I got a lot fewer knock counts and no audible knocking.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,058
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    If you aren't letting the ECM control the EGR then get rid of it.
    Nothing should be connected that the ECM does not control.
    With the EGR unplugged, stick your finger under the disc and lift it up.
    The idle should flutter and then get smooth when you let it go.
    If not, remove and install a blank off
     
    JayKray likes this.
  18. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    OK, looks like Bill nailed it again!
    I picked up a block off plate, pulled the egr which was indeed stuck mostly open and everything seemed to run much much better.
    For some reason the BLM didn't save when the computer went to sleep, but here is the log. I believe it is still on the lean side ?? after about 30-40 gallons and two bottles of Seafoam. I have a buddy that has the GM injection cleaner and device to run it through, so I will try to get that done shortly. If that doesn't do it, I'll open it up and adjust the regulator.
    Good news is I had No audible knocking and only 3 that showed up on the log.
    Yes, my tps is high again. I swear I set this to .2% and it goes up when I restart. I'll try and tweak it down again.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. JayKray

    JayKray Farmall Cub

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry, CT
    OK, I rebuilt the TBI and made the fuel pressure regulator adjustable while I was at it.
    I also had my GM mechanic buddy come by and we ran a bunch of AC delco upper end fuel cleaner directly to the TBI.
    I then took it for a run and there was pretty much no change, still quite a bit lean. See attached BLM and log.
    I then turned the regulator up to about 3/4 of the adjustment and took another run. Second set of BLM and log.
    There was definitely an improvement, but it still looks a bit lean, correct?
    Looks like I should keep cranking on the regulator, yes?

    Thanks,
    Jay
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Bill USN-1

    Bill USN-1 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    17,058
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Yep still a little lean.
     

Share This Page