Supercharged 345 Build

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by cycomick, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    Hey Everybody,

    Been a while since I last posted on here.
    Thought I would give an update on the latest goings on with my '79 Scout II.

    Here is a link to the Scout as of recently...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3SgcpEhWKg
    It's now been pulled off the road for the Supercharger conversion.

    I will try to post some regular updates on the progress of the supercharger conversion which is already in progress. I have probably 80% of the components I need now to complete the conversion. Most of the remaining parts need to be fabricated along the way. A lack of time is the biggest killer!

    This will have to be a quick post, but i'll put some more updates and pics up as things progress. Below are the main components being used for the conversion.

    - Acc. Drive Gilmer Pullies / Custom Adapters/ Supercharger drive conversion
    - Eaton M90 Blower @ 2.6 x crank speed (max of 7-8psi at 4000 engine rpm)
    - Setup to blow-thru throttle body with vacuum actuated bypass valve
    - Water-to-Air Intercooler mounted inside RHS fender cavity
    - Small suzuki GSXR-600 radiator used as Intercooler heat exchanger up front

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  2. Robert JetFxr

    Robert JetFxr High Wheeler

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    I will be watching this, I am just starting to plan out a blown 392 for a IH hot rod.
     
  3. 70binderPA

    70binderPA Binder Driver

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  4. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    Radiator as an Intercooler!?!?!

    I am not using a radiator as an intercooler!
    i'm using a radiator to disperse heat into the air for the water to air intercooler.

    Heat is removed out of the compressed air charge thru a dedicated 'cold' coolant system. The radiator is only there to remove heat from the water.

    I have started dummying up the intercooler and supercharger in position.
    See below. The fender inner panel work will be braced due some cutting ive had to do.

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  5. cornfed

    cornfed Farmall Cub

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    what a killer project! i can't wait to see it running, you do excellent work!:beer:
     
  6. 70binderPA

    70binderPA Binder Driver

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    sorry cyco, i skimmed your post and i didn't see the water/air intercooler. i just saw the radiator heat exchanger for the IC and thought you meant just as an IC.

    you can get a 31x4x18 intercooler off of ebay for $110 that will cool 15x what your water to air will, though. food for thought.


    edit: you would find a welcomed home at rhmt.com(in my sig). crazy amounts of fuel injection/forced induction techies over there, plenty more in-depth than you will find on here (or so i've seen) just take the site with a grain of salt, they are pretty verbally abusive towards new members (forum tradition), but know what way to turn the wrench ;) your build would be one of the great oddball builds. currently there is a guy on there with a twin holset'd dodge 400bb in a '50's mack. pretty neat build.
     
  7. Steve Grant

    Steve Grant Farmall Cub

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    Very nice...keep us all posted.
     
  8. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    No worries. You’re right, it’s all about oddball! Isn’t that what Scout ownership is all about? :D
    I’ll check out that site too, sounds the business.

    There are a few reasons I have chosen to go water-to-air over air-to-air.

    1) Look at the available real-estate behind the grille area of a Scout for a large front mount intercooler.
    There is not a lot of space, unless you want to further restrict airflow to the engine radiator.

    2) I would prefer to keep high pressure intake charge as short as possible
    Plus there is little space to duct thru to the front with my external trans-cooler

    An air-to-air cooler is great in a race, quick road-car, or on-highway truck application, where you have bulk airflow ducted into the cooler, dissipating the heat.
    An air-to-air cooler when stationary basically acts like a giant heat-sink, absorbing all the heat energy from the intake charge into the body of the cooler.
    You then need to get the vehicle back up to speed again in order to get the heat out of the giant heat-sink.
    I have seen it plenty of times in my Nissan road cars I have owned over the years!

    So…Considering the space restrictions + the fact that the Scout will mostly be doing slow speed cruising and light-duty wheeling, water-to-air is the way to go IMO.
    As a bonus, because the cooler is mounted outside of the engine bay heat-soak area, (in the fender cavity) it should not have the usual water-to-air problem of heat-soak when it’s parked.

    Either way, it’s all good fun and the proof will be in the inlet air temps! At 7 – 8 psi, I don’t think it’s going to be a huge ask.

    Cheers guys, I’ll keep yoall posted!
     
  9. 70binderPA

    70binderPA Binder Driver

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    you going to pop over to rhmt and make a thread? we could use a non-honda thread this week. :taz:
     
  10. Darrel

    Darrel High Wheeler

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    Clean Scout. Really nice job on the FI conversion.

    I can't wait to see the SC video once you get it running good. Any way you can get some dyno numbers?
     
  11. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    Got the AIR part part of the intercooler in position tonight.

    I can tell you, I didn't much like cutting into that perfectly good metal.

    I'm going to brace the sheet metal internally to regain some of the rigidity lost from the panel butchery!

    I used a cheap ceiling downlight holesaw to cut the holes for the 3inch silicone pipes. It was only a few bucks and being carbon steel it seemed to hold up quite ok cutting sheet metal.

    The only thing that didn't hold up was BOTH my electric drill's.
    About 1/3 of the way thru the second hole, I saw a little whisp pf white smoke and at first thought it was the cutting oil burning up on the sheet metal....

    Keep cutting, keep cutting... all of a sudden massive amounts of smoke start streaming out of the drill! So much that it filled my shed up full of that great smelling electrical burning smoke! Damn near choked me half to death for a few seconds...

    Open the shed door, let it ventilate....

    Get the cordless drill. The Battery on charge decided that it won't hold charge anymore.

    Try battery number 2.

    Dead.

    Put battery on charge. While charging for an hour or so, I thought: what a perfect opportunity to have a little bit of a tidy-up. Tools were a little scattered at this point and how sweet it would be to have them all back in their little home.

    Instead, I lean on the Scout, peering into the engine bay, daydreaming - occasionaly looking over at the electric drill to see if the charge light had turned green yet..... Nope, still charging. Still need to clean up, but I don't.
    I must have checked that charge lamp 20 times or more, while the whole time achieving nothing whatsoever...

    The light goes green on the drill so I slam the battery in, go to the panel, start drilling. 30 seconds later, battery dead.

    All I can say is, if your drill (s) fails you, you can get stubborn.

    Do things old school and throw a shifting spanner on the end of your holesaw pilot drill, depress your body weight against the panel and WA-LAH!!!

    In about 15 minutes of spanner twirling (which seemed like 2 hours) you have yourself a perfectly good 3.5'' hole!

    SWEET :D

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  12. DaBeast

    DaBeast Farmall Cub

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    Very trick mate. Looking forward to the completion on this beast...
     
  13. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    Update.

    I have been working some serious hours on the Scout over the past week. Plenty of late nights and skinned knuckles!

    The supercharger mount is finished, just needs a coat of paint.

    Something that is a bit different and which a lot of thought has gone into, is the pump to circulate the water for the water-to-air intercooler system. I am going to use a mechanically driven pump to circulate the water, rather than the usual electric. The pump is actually the gilmer drive belt idler and pump in one. It uses a small outboard engine centrifugal rubber impeller. Anyway, the pump is now finished. Pics to come.

    The intercooler radiator is now mounted and bolted up into position with some very custom made brackets. It's out of a Suzuki GSXR-600 motorcycle. I modified the end tanks to accept 5/8 barb hose fittings. It all juuuuuust fit's in behind the grille.

    The Intercooler is also mounted now and in it's final position. It sit's on a rubber platform and is secured by a steel/rubber strap.

    The Intercooler header tank (water reservior) is actually a cut-down early 80's Range Rover power steering reservior. I cut and shut the bracket to suit the Scout. Not bad for $5.00!

    Hopefully by the end of this week should have the PCV system sorted, bypass valve plumbing done and 3'' piping done. As always with big-ish mod's there are a LOT of little things to do to tie everything together so it all works.

    I'll post some pix when I have more time in the coming days.

    Cheers
     
  14. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    Some pics.

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    Intercooler Radiator in position.


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    Radiator Close Up

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    Pump/Idler

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    Pump/Idler in position with rough adapter plate

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    Cooler/Plumbing

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    Adapter Plate finished
     
  15. cornfed

    cornfed Farmall Cub

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    Nice work Mick, you doing all your own machining? Can't wait to hear this thing run!
     
  16. 70binderPA

    70binderPA Binder Driver

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    i suspect wheelies and barrel rolls will be a by-product of this build
     
  17. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    So be it... :D
     
  18. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    Thanks Cornfed, no... I certainly cannot take credit for the machining. A friend of mine Stuart is responsible for the bulk of the machining, we served our time together as machinists back in the day, only he now has his own fully equipped machine shop..... and a very open mind to oddball projects.

    Not a chance in hell I could do it without Stu. :beer:
     
  19. cycomick

    cycomick Farmall Cub

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    It's alive!!!!!!

    After a long dedicated Scout week of work completing most of the steel pipe work for the supercharger inlets and outlets as well as gathering lots of little bit's and pieces...

    IT RUNS! Not without a few issues and certainly not finalised yet, but for the first time, the supercharged MPFI 345 ran this evening! :punk:

    Start-up was as per the regular MPFI style, fairly instant - except this time the start-up rumble was accompanied by the high pitch whistle of the belt and the super-loud whine of the Eaton blower. It's pretty much too loud at the moment, with the K&N pod filter. The next door neighbours cat's had no idea what the hell was going on and BOLTED.

    It actually drowns out the dual 2.5'' exhausts!
    So will have to quieten that down quite a bit...
    Probably the 3'' steel pluming for the supercharger intake and pressure pipes don't help very much. They act like an echo chamber!

    The intercooler water pump appears to working great so far, it circulates water slowly at idle and increases with RPM/boost. The water capacity of the intercooler system is around 2.6 litres, now that I have filled it for the first time!. I used the GM style red coolant for the intercooler system in order to differentiate it from the green engine coolant im using, just in case a leak occurs... There are over 25 hose clamps securing all of the intercooler coolant hoses together! I wouldn't mind using some pipe in place of the many right angle joins I have in the system for now!

    I only bought the engine up to OT and shut it down after that. At this stage the belt is trying to slip across the alternator due to lack of sufficient belt wrap due to the supercharger position. In turn this is causing the alternator adjuster bracket to warp and bend when the rpm is raised. I'm going to fix this by fitting a longer belt (67'') and another idler pulley between the crankshaft and alternator. This will restore the amount of belt wrap around the alternator and hopefully

    Most of the supercharger boost has been designed to be bypassed at idle and part throttle, where the engine operates under vacuum. In this condition, the boost is recirculated back into the inlet of the supercharger.
    This is controlled by a simple bypass valve which is hooked to the manifold for vacuum/boost reference. In vacuum the bypass valve is OPEN allowing boost to divert into the SC intake and not crash into the closed throttle butterflies. This is useful at idle, or throttle lift's down hill at say 3000rpm. When the throttle butteflies are open enough that positive pressure exists in the manifold, the bypass valve is closed allowing the full force of the fast moving air charge to compress in the manifold/engine.

    That said, it appears that not all boost is being recirculated, because I have noted already that from idle (this is all in the shed - stationary) the throttle response is super sharp compared to the naturally aspirated setup. I believe the 4 barrel intake/throttle body will help out a lot here too.

    Here are some pics of how it looks as of right now.

    I'm back to work this week :no:, but hopefully will have the belt sorted, some electrical work done and the crankcase ventilation system at least sorted out on paper.

    I also have a new 2Bar MAP sensor to install and also start work on new fuel/ignition maps.

    Always plenty to do.

    Cheers

    Mick


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  20. Robert Kenney

    Robert Kenney Binder Driver

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    Congradulations on some very very nice work. :punk:

    "First Class" would be an understatment. :beer:

    Robert
     

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