Special Edition scouts and decals

Discussion in 'General IH Tech' started by Sam10B, May 25, 2016.


  1. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    That's neat you have the calendar from the promotional folder. Do you have the red velvet folder and everything? John (Glancy, my coauthor) has most of the RCS folder but I didn't see the calendar. Those are all pretty rare and not easy to find.

    Re "The Promotion," I think you are misinterpreting it a little. It was less a promotion to sell RCS, though that was part of it, and more a promotion to get showroom traffic and sell regular Scouts. The RCS hooks you to come in and look. You see the price premium on the RCS and maybe you can't swing the obscene $4000 price tag but you are shown a lesser Scout you can afford and off you go into the sunset. The beginning of RCS production was more to get them out there to sell and for promotion. The end of production was more to fill supplemental orders. They allotted a 3,000 unit production run but they actually built 3,450 according to MTC records. The RCS is significant because it was the first Scout doll-up. The first of many.
     
  2. Fins160

    Fins160 Binder Driver

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    Yes, I have the original red folder, signed letter to the dealership, promotional calendar, and blank mail-in card that one would send in to get a personalized "engraved" dash sticker. They are all in excellent condition, and I had them on display at AZIHR this month.

    Any idea how many RCS are still around and accounted for? I know mine was delivered to a Denver dealership.
     
  3. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Never made a detailed study. I can think of 25 or so offhand. So many have been "De-Red Carpeted" that 50 years on, the only way to tell for sure is via the LST. I know of one that has zero remaining RCS accoutrements yet when he got the LST, it was an RCS. He found that out AFTER a restoration, of course! Which is a lesson to anyone: get your LST before you turn a wrench. You may have something rare and special! At least you will be able to make an informed choice as to direction, even if you don't choose the more complicated and expensive path of getting all the special and rare parts.
     
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  4. Fins160

    Fins160 Binder Driver

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  5. Fins160

    Fins160 Binder Driver

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    Hey Jim,

    Just got the Encyclopedia, it's fantastic!

    Returning to my original 1964 vs 1965 questions for the RCS, my serial number is FC102264. On page 48, you reference that the serial number range for 1964 is FC83952-FC107760. 1965 is FC107761-FC124894.

    Are these ranges for the serial numbers produced in that calendar year, or for the serial numbers produced in that model year?

    Model Code is 781805 (Scout 80 from 2/1/63, Scout 80 4x4, Scout 80 Red Carpet, Scout 80, Scout 80 removable bulkhead, All)

    Thanks, and I appreciate all your expertise!
     
  6. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    You have uncovered one of the many contradictory things we came across in the Scout 80 era and one where I made an informational judgement call. Now I guess I gotta crawl into the weeds to explain a bit more deeply.

    We have documents that list the ending "official" serial numbers by year (and cancelled serial numbers for that year) but they indicate the serial numbers allocated for a particular year and those to be carried over into the next. Done annually by or for some guy named R.S. Apple (which cracks me up for some reason), we have the serial number lists from 1960 to 1971. We also have dates that state when production changed over from one MY to the next and in the 80 era they contradict with the serial number range. That's why you don't see the date changeover listed for the Scout 80 models as you do with later Scouts. For one thing, we didn't find all of them in the era, and when we did, there were reasons to wonder about them (even if they were on official IH paper). My "gut" tells me that somehow I am interpreting those documents incorrectly, in that they indicate the MY changeover (I have some alternate theories but they are too arcane and unsure to get into), but everybody I ask says they are what they appear to be. Lacking anything to the contrary, I have accepted them as they are.

    The one showing the last numbers for 1964 is partly illegible (bad copy of a copy) but scrutiny and another document tells me the FC107760 was probably the last official '64 MY serial number. AND YET... the MTC docs infer the RCS were intended to be a '65 MY Scout promotional vehicle. PLUS... some RCS have serial numbers that extend past the FC107760 range making them '65s by serial number. ALSO, RCS modes were held back and did not begin shipping until later in the year (I'd have to dig for that date but the promotion started in September). To further complicate this, in these early days, International was a little less "model year centric" so the transitions were a little more "fuzzy" than they were for the rest of the auto industry or than they did in later years. My call is that planners were cranking up RCS production and stockpiling them so they could ship large numbers out at once to get the promotion going in time to highlight the '65 MY and the RCS promotion. One thing to keep in mind is that the RCS was a PROMOTION mostly designed to get customers into the showroom to sell the regular Scouts.

    You can make a valid argument based on serial numbers that there were BOTH '64 AND '65 MY RCS but my global view based on seeing a lot of primary evidence is that the RCS was intended to be a '65 MY Scout and/or to promote the '65 MY. That is why I said "most correct" above. This isn't a hill I intend to die on, but given the copious amount of material I have seen, I am allowing myself the arrogance of weighing the evidence and making a judgment call that the RCS models are MOST CORRECTLY called '65s. I would like to find stronger documentary evidence to call it either way. And to remind people, someone else's opinion or something someone written in a magazine article isn't "evidence." Primary source evidence consists of documents directly from IH so if anyone can produce stuff like that and clear this up once and for all, I'd be grateful. John and I saw a LOT of stuff but we haven't seen EVERYTHING!

    Your RCS was built 8/6/64 and it was one of the ones (many) held over for a shortage of red armrests. It was shipped to the Denver dealer originally. It also has 4.88:1 axle ratios (with PL), a fairly rare option but one which was more common on the high altitude Scouts.
     
  7. Fins160

    Fins160 Binder Driver

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    Thanks Jim, the rabbit hole really does go far!

    That makes sense that they would be stockpiling the RCSs for the promotion, and that while they were intended to be a 1965 model year, there may have been some built with a 1964 MY serial number.

    My RCS still has the 4.88 gearing and PL. At some point a PTO Warn overdrive was added - I heard these were sometimes installed at the dealership. It sure helps a lot getting those 4.88s up to speed.

    Thanks again for all your work on the Encyclopedia and answering my follow-up questions!
     
  8. jfreek65

    jfreek65 Farmall Cub

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    I know I'm digging up an old thread, but I'm a new member who happens to own an RCS so it can be added to the list of 25 or so still in existence.

    My grandfather bought it new in Southern Oregon in 1964, and though it's had a rough life (and seen a melding of parts with another two Scout bodies), I was taught at a young age about its heritage as a special model.
     
  9. stroker3

    stroker3 Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    My guess would be to either post or PM your VIN to Jim (BinderBookie) and he'd know whether your's is known or not.
     
  10. scout2000

    scout2000 Y-Block King

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    Jim will have to validate his comment, but I don't believe that it is being stated that only 25 RCS' survive to this day. I believe that Jim is just stating that "off the top of his head", he knows the location of 25.

    I'm aware of (2) here in the DFW metro area, and a 3rd that found a new owner and moved to Colorado Springs about a year ago.

    In relationship to production numbers from the big 3, almost all Binders might be classified as rare, or at least uncommon. I'm not suggesting that I have any additional insight that Jim might, but if I had to speculate, I would think that the number of surviving RCS' is well into the 3-figure range, if not more.

    Either way, RCS' are great looking vehicles. Congrat's on inheriting yours and keeping it in the family.
     
  11. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    Yeah, Jerry is right. There are about 25 that I have some personal knowledge about, I wasn't saying there are only 25 left. As Jerry said above, the likely population is in the hundreds but no doubt some of those are in mufti as regular Scouts. Without the special interior parts, they are just another Scout. Often there are clues but sometimes until you get the LST, you doj't know what you have was an RCS. All the special parts are what define the vehicle... and dictates it's collector value.
     
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  12. Fins160

    Fins160 Binder Driver

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    Congrats on the Scout! Post some pics!

     
  13. Sarge

    Sarge Farmall Cub

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    Thank you. These being my first two Scouts ever, I have been excited to get started. However having read your post you have made me re think my position. I am now going to hold off until I have my LST's. My 1970 800A is in the works and once I find the S/N for my earlier Scout 80 I will do the same. Since it is clear my Scout 80 is a British Petroleum owned vehicle ( custom color & door shield ) I MAY have a scarce bird. If so I will definitely want to restore it back to original. If not then I might pick a cool color.
     
  14. stroker3

    stroker3 Dreams of Cub Cadets

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    Would be nice if you can save the bragging rights on a rare/odd scout. All you'll need to do later is figure out how to turn the IH rare stuff into real money......:laugh:
     
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  15. Sarge

    Sarge Farmall Cub

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    Well ,its marketing. I put the idea out there that I DO have a rare bird then it leaves everyone salivating for me to get it done so they can grab it first ! LOL :punk:
     
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  16. David Vee

    David Vee Farmall Cub

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    Built Especially For - Adirondack Safari Sticker for 1965 Red Carpet Series Scout.jpg
    Fins160,
    I am in the process of having a RCS restored. I have an interesting back story as to how I came by it and would be happy to send you the details. (I am a free-lance writer and actually hope to write a piece about my Scout RCS with a working title of
    "A Barn Find (sort of)". But for now I am interested in the "Built Especially For" form you mention. Would it be possible for me to get a copy of it from you? If so, my e-mail address is: davidvee@roadrunner.com
    I am desperately seeking a full image of the decal as the one on my Scout is a bit deteriorated after over 50 years of upstate New York winters in the heart of "snow country". Do you know if any of these decals exist? I know of a few places I can have the decal reproduced if I find one. Anyway, I have attached a pic of the one placed under the "Custom" badge on the driver side door. I have completed a mechanical restoration to make it street legal (it has been unregistered since 1973 and subsequently only used on private property) and the guy I bought it from has plowed with it for the last 5 years!!! I too have plowed with it and it runs great. It now sits in a body shop with the goal of having it look as it did coming off the assembly line. I have become very interested in the RCS's history and would consider you a valuable resource for information related to it. I too have communicated with Jim Allen who after seeing my LST and pics confirmed it was an authentic RCS. It has all the identifiers save the headliner of which there are only remnants. Any help or direction you might offer will be sincerely appreciated. Respectfully, David Vee
    Built Especially For - Adirondack Safari Sticker for 1965 Red Carpet Series Scout.jpg
     

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  17. David Vee

    David Vee Farmall Cub

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  18. David Vee

    David Vee Farmall Cub

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    Here is full pic of "Lazarus" as I call my Scout the day I found it. Scout Driver Side.jpg
     
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  19. Fins160

    Fins160 Binder Driver

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    David, very cool that you have the original tag on the outside of the door. I'll try to remember to scan the form and send it to you in the next few days. I'd love to read more about the history of your Scout, if you want to send it over to jpcoughlin@gmail.com. Congrats on the truck!
     
  20. BinderBookie

    BinderBookie High Wheeler

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    David, I believe the form he will send is the same one I already sent you. Regrettably , the image of the "built especially for decal" I sent is the best one I've seen personally. And remember, that decals was supposed to be on the door but on the dash. The other one, the "100,000th," was the one for the door... for the few that had them anyway.
     

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